When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Sun May 06, 2012 4:27 pm

Mike S. wrote:This actually supports my doubts. The method spots eval similarities but does not spot, to a sufficient degree, search differences. 100ms vs. 400ms still give ~73%. That means, if someone takes Fruit 2.1's evaluation but makes the search code four times more effective (leading to your 400ms results in 100ms), this achievement would not be recognized sufficiently by the testing method.

This is a problem.

I insist that a similarity analysis must not ignore differences of the search code. It cannot be based on eval only, because reasonable eval terms are within a limited horizon. It is no surprise that they are similar among very good engines and only small details are different.

I already hinted to the ponder-hit system and the Chessbase article of Soren Riis. Ponder-hit is based on time control and real games and tells the same story as similarity tester. See chapter 3 at:

http://www.top-5000.nl/quick_guide.htm

and follow the link to the full article.

El Gringo · Post by **El Gringo** » Sun May 06, 2012 9:57 pm

Hi Ed,

If... Robbolito is a clone (ipolit) and not allowed, then have a look at my similarity test... what shall we do with Critter ??

sim version 3
------ RobboLito 0.09 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ----
65.16 Houdini 1.5 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.85 Strelka 5.1 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
63.06 Critter 1.4 64-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.71 Rybka 3 1-cpu (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)

Oke, Houdini is well known as a Robbolito clone but Critter is very very close too !

Best
Johan

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Sun May 06, 2012 10:24 pm

El Gringo wrote:Hi Ed,

If... Robbolito is a clone (ipolit) and not allowed, then have a look at my similarity test... what shall we do with Critter ??

sim version 3
------ RobboLito 0.09 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ----
65.16 Houdini 1.5 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.85 Strelka 5.1 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
63.06 Critter 1.4 64-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.71 Rybka 3 1-cpu (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)

Oke, Houdini is well known as a Robbolito clone but Critter is very very close too !

Best
Johan

A new version of Critter could well have passed the similarity threshold set.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:30 pm

El Gringo wrote:Hi Ed,

If... Robbolito is a clone (ipolit) and not allowed, then have a look at my similarity test... what shall we do with Critter ??

sim version 3
------ RobboLito 0.09 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ----
65.16 Houdini 1.5 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.85 Strelka 5.1 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
63.06 Critter 1.4 64-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.71 Rybka 3 1-cpu (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)

Oke, Houdini is well known as a Robbolito clone but Critter is very very close too !

Best
Johan

Yes, the course Critter has chosen is odd, see:

Code: Select all

 1) Critter 0.34 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 2) Critter 0.36 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 3) Critter 0.40 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 4) Critter 0.42 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 5) Critter 1.2  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 6) Critter 1.4  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 7) Houdini 1.0  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 8) Houdini 1.5  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)

        1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8
 1.  ----- 75.14 40.37 39.22 35.46 34.04 36.77 34.11
 2.  75.14 ----- 42.24 40.23 36.20 34.73 37.18 34.80
 3.  40.37 42.24 ----- 51.71 41.93 40.52 42.29 40.76
 4.  39.22 40.23 51.71 ----- 44.72 43.35 45.79 43.85
 5.  35.46 36.20 41.93 44.72 ----- 61.23 61.47 60.95
 6.  34.04 34.73 40.52 43.35 61.23 ----- 60.91 64.52
 7.  36.77 37.18 42.29 45.79 61.47 60.91 ----- 63.27
 8.  34.11 34.80 40.76 43.85 60.95 64.52 63.27 -----

It starts as a very orginal engine but since version 1.2 there is this link with Houdini. According Robert because Richard RE'ed Houdini (see a couple of pages up).

rvida · Post by **rvida** » Mon May 07, 2012 1:21 am

Rebel wrote:
El Gringo wrote:Hi Ed,

If... Robbolito is a clone (ipolit) and not allowed, then have a look at my similarity test... what shall we do with Critter ??

sim version 3
------ RobboLito 0.09 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ----
65.16 Houdini 1.5 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.85 Strelka 5.1 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
63.06 Critter 1.4 64-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.71 Rybka 3 1-cpu (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)

Oke, Houdini is well known as a Robbolito clone but Critter is very very close too !

Best
Johan
Yes, the course Critter has chosen is odd, see:
Code: Select all
 1) Critter 0.34 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 2) Critter 0.36 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 3) Critter 0.40 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 4) Critter 0.42 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 5) Critter 1.2  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 6) Critter 1.4  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 7) Houdini 1.0  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 8) Houdini 1.5  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)

        1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8
 1.  ----- 75.14 40.37 39.22 35.46 34.04 36.77 34.11
 2.  75.14 ----- 42.24 40.23 36.20 34.73 37.18 34.80
 3.  40.37 42.24 ----- 51.71 41.93 40.52 42.29 40.76
 4.  39.22 40.23 51.71 ----- 44.72 43.35 45.79 43.85
 5.  35.46 36.20 41.93 44.72 ----- 61.23 61.47 60.95
 6.  34.04 34.73 40.52 43.35 61.23 ----- 60.91 64.52
 7.  36.77 37.18 42.29 45.79 61.47 60.91 ----- 63.27
 8.  34.11 34.80 40.76 43.85 60.95 64.52 63.27 -----
It starts as a very orginal engine but since version 1.2 there is this link with Houdini. According Robert because Richard RE'ed Houdini (see a couple of pages up).

Most probably it is because Critter >=1.2 uses public piece-square tables from Ippolit.

neelbasant · Post by **neelbasant** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:40 am

rvida wrote:
Rebel wrote:
El Gringo wrote:Hi Ed,

If... Robbolito is a clone (ipolit) and not allowed, then have a look at my similarity test... what shall we do with Critter ??

sim version 3
------ RobboLito 0.09 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ----
65.16 Houdini 1.5 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.85 Strelka 5.1 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
63.06 Critter 1.4 64-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.71 Rybka 3 1-cpu (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)

Oke, Houdini is well known as a Robbolito clone but Critter is very very close too !

Best
Johan
Yes, the course Critter has chosen is odd, see:
Code: Select all
 1) Critter 0.34 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 2) Critter 0.36 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 3) Critter 0.40 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 4) Critter 0.42 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 5) Critter 1.2  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 6) Critter 1.4  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 7) Houdini 1.0  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 8) Houdini 1.5  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)

        1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8
 1.  ----- 75.14 40.37 39.22 35.46 34.04 36.77 34.11
 2.  75.14 ----- 42.24 40.23 36.20 34.73 37.18 34.80
 3.  40.37 42.24 ----- 51.71 41.93 40.52 42.29 40.76
 4.  39.22 40.23 51.71 ----- 44.72 43.35 45.79 43.85
 5.  35.46 36.20 41.93 44.72 ----- 61.23 61.47 60.95
 6.  34.04 34.73 40.52 43.35 61.23 ----- 60.91 64.52
 7.  36.77 37.18 42.29 45.79 61.47 60.91 ----- 63.27
 8.  34.11 34.80 40.76 43.85 60.95 64.52 63.27 -----
It starts as a very orginal engine but since version 1.2 there is this link with Houdini. According Robert because Richard RE'ed Houdini (see a couple of pages up).
Most probably it is because Critter >=1.2 uses public piece-square tables from Ippolit.

Richard , i have a question for you.
As houdart accuses Critter 1.2 and later of REed Houdini 1.5a.
so what is reality ? As I think myself as one of the best wellwisher of critter , little confusion .

Will you pls clarify ?

EmilV · Post by **EmilV** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:51 am

I have scaned a little chaotic CSVN web to find the new clone-rule exactly.
Finally I have found the rules
http://www.csvn.nl/index.php?option=com ... &lang=en
but I don't see here the "magic" number 60 percent.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Mon May 07, 2012 6:22 am

EmilV wrote:I have scaned a little chaotic CSVN web to find the new clone-rule exactly.
Finally I have found the rules
http://www.csvn.nl/index.php?option=com ... &lang=en
but I don't see here the "magic" number 60 percent.

It's here:

http://www.csvn.nl/index.php?option=com ... 28&lang=en

Dr.Wael Deeb · Post by **Dr.Wael Deeb** » Mon May 07, 2012 9:48 am

neelbasant wrote:
rvida wrote:
Rebel wrote:
El Gringo wrote:Hi Ed,

If... Robbolito is a clone (ipolit) and not allowed, then have a look at my similarity test... what shall we do with Critter ??

sim version 3
------ RobboLito 0.09 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ----
65.16 Houdini 1.5 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.85 Strelka 5.1 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
63.06 Critter 1.4 64-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.71 Rybka 3 1-cpu (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)

Oke, Houdini is well known as a Robbolito clone but Critter is very very close too !

Best
Johan
Yes, the course Critter has chosen is odd, see:
Code: Select all
 1) Critter 0.34 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 2) Critter 0.36 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 3) Critter 0.40 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 4) Critter 0.42 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 5) Critter 1.2  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 6) Critter 1.4  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 7) Houdini 1.0  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 8) Houdini 1.5  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)

        1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8
 1.  ----- 75.14 40.37 39.22 35.46 34.04 36.77 34.11
 2.  75.14 ----- 42.24 40.23 36.20 34.73 37.18 34.80
 3.  40.37 42.24 ----- 51.71 41.93 40.52 42.29 40.76
 4.  39.22 40.23 51.71 ----- 44.72 43.35 45.79 43.85
 5.  35.46 36.20 41.93 44.72 ----- 61.23 61.47 60.95
 6.  34.04 34.73 40.52 43.35 61.23 ----- 60.91 64.52
 7.  36.77 37.18 42.29 45.79 61.47 60.91 ----- 63.27
 8.  34.11 34.80 40.76 43.85 60.95 64.52 63.27 -----
It starts as a very orginal engine but since version 1.2 there is this link with Houdini. According Robert because Richard RE'ed Houdini (see a couple of pages up).
Most probably it is because Critter >=1.2 uses public piece-square tables from Ippolit.
Richard , i have a question for you.
As houdart accuses Critter 1.2 and later of REed Houdini 1.5a.
so what is reality ? As I think myself as one of the best wellwisher of critter , little confusion .

Will you pls clarify ?

Actually it's simple....

Robert is punching Richard under the belt whenever he has the opportunity....why

Even more simple....

Because Critter is a huge real threat to knock down Houdini from the top of the rating lists....

Personally I'll be so happy when this happens

Dr.D

neelbasant · Post by **neelbasant** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:02 am

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
neelbasant wrote:
rvida wrote:
Rebel wrote:
El Gringo wrote:Hi Ed,

If... Robbolito is a clone (ipolit) and not allowed, then have a look at my similarity test... what shall we do with Critter ??

sim version 3
------ RobboLito 0.09 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ----
65.16 Houdini 1.5 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.85 Strelka 5.1 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
63.06 Critter 1.4 64-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.71 Rybka 3 1-cpu (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)

Oke, Houdini is well known as a Robbolito clone but Critter is very very close too !

Best
Johan
Yes, the course Critter has chosen is odd, see:
Code: Select all
 1) Critter 0.34 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 2) Critter 0.36 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 3) Critter 0.40 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 4) Critter 0.42 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 5) Critter 1.2  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 6) Critter 1.4  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 7) Houdini 1.0  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 8) Houdini 1.5  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)

        1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8
 1.  ----- 75.14 40.37 39.22 35.46 34.04 36.77 34.11
 2.  75.14 ----- 42.24 40.23 36.20 34.73 37.18 34.80
 3.  40.37 42.24 ----- 51.71 41.93 40.52 42.29 40.76
 4.  39.22 40.23 51.71 ----- 44.72 43.35 45.79 43.85
 5.  35.46 36.20 41.93 44.72 ----- 61.23 61.47 60.95
 6.  34.04 34.73 40.52 43.35 61.23 ----- 60.91 64.52
 7.  36.77 37.18 42.29 45.79 61.47 60.91 ----- 63.27
 8.  34.11 34.80 40.76 43.85 60.95 64.52 63.27 -----
It starts as a very orginal engine but since version 1.2 there is this link with Houdini. According Robert because Richard RE'ed Houdini (see a couple of pages up).
Most probably it is because Critter >=1.2 uses public piece-square tables from Ippolit.
Richard , i have a question for you.
As houdart accuses Critter 1.2 and later of REed Houdini 1.5a.
so what is reality ? As I think myself as one of the best wellwisher of critter , little confusion .

Will you pls clarify ?
Actually it's simple....

Robert is punching Richard under the belt whenever he has the opportunity....why

Even more simple....

Because Critter is a huge real threat to knock down Houdini from the top of the rating lists....

Personally I'll be so happy when this happens
Dr.D

When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

CSVN rules?

Re: CSVN rules?

Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?

Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?