morality and legality of dowloading robbolito

[Terry McCracken]

Several programmers demonstrated tha R1 was filled with Fruit code so please get your facts straight

These programmers have obviously not conferred at length with Ryan Benitez regarding this. I'll say no more on it.

What's your point Graham? Is he The Oracle?

I guess a computer scientist of 40+ years is either incompetent or a liar?

You tell me and the rest of CCC.

Again, way off topic.

Aside from Fabien, Ryan is the author most familiar with Fruit. Rybka's strength does not come from Fruit. However, those wanting to pooh-pooh Rybka as a Fruit clone should talk to Ryan. As I said, I can't add anything further.

Cheers,
Graham.

This is sad. No one said Fruit gives Rybka it strength alone or Fruit would now be as strong as Rybka, it helped of course in R1 but that's only one reason Rybka gain strength so fast. It played a part and only a person who is blind deaf and dumb, ( The Three Monkeys), would belabour the point or turn his or her head from the obvious truth.

You have in fact turned to mysticism as oppossed to science.

[Graham Banks]

Several programmers demonstrated tha R1 was filled with Fruit code so please get your facts straight

These programmers have obviously not conferred at length with Ryan Benitez regarding this. I'll say no more on it.

What's your point Graham? Is he The Oracle?

I guess a computer scientist of 40+ years is either incompetent or a liar?

You tell me and the rest of CCC.

Again, way off topic.

Aside from Fabien, Ryan is the author most familiar with Fruit. Rybka's strength does not come from Fruit. However, those wanting to pooh-pooh Rybka as a Fruit clone should talk to Ryan. As I said, I can't add anything further.

Cheers,
Graham.

This is sad. No one said Fruit gives Rybka it strength alone or Fruit would now be as strong as Rybka, it helped of course in R1 but that's only one reason Rybka gain strength so fast. It played a part and only a person who is blind deaf and dumb, ( The Three Monkeys), would belabour the point or turn his or her head from the obvious truth.

You have in fact turned to mysticism as oppossed to science.

What I'm getting at is that the Rybka = Fruit clone accusers should talk to Ryan because he's obviously the Fruit expert.

Cheers,
Graham.

[Terry McCracken]

Several programmers demonstrated tha R1 was filled with Fruit code so please get your facts straight

These programmers have obviously not conferred at length with Ryan Benitez regarding this. I'll say no more on it.

What's your point Graham? Is he The Oracle?

I guess a computer scientist of 40+ years is either incompetent or a liar?

You tell me and the rest of CCC.

Again, way off topic.

Aside from Fabien, Ryan is the author most familiar with Fruit. Rybka's strength does not come from Fruit. However, those wanting to pooh-pooh Rybka as a Fruit clone should talk to Ryan. As I said, I can't add anything further.

Cheers,
Graham.

This is sad. No one said Fruit gives Rybka it strength alone or Fruit would now be as strong as Rybka, it helped of course in R1 but that's only one reason Rybka gain strength so fast. It played a part and only a person who is blind deaf and dumb, ( The Three Monkeys), would belabour the point or turn his or her head from the obvious truth.

You have in fact turned to mysticism as oppossed to science.

What I'm getting at is that the Rybka = Fruit clone accusers should talk to Ryan because he's obviously the Fruit expert.

Cheers,
Graham.

That's daft reasoning as he isn't unique in reading source code regardless of his intimate knowledge of Fruit.

[Graham Banks]

What I'm getting at is that the Rybka = Fruit clone accusers should talk to Ryan because he's obviously the Fruit expert.

Cheers,
Graham.

That's daft reasoning as he isn't unique in reading source code regardless of his intimate knowledge of Fruit.

No, but if somebody thought that an engine was a Crafty clone, wouldn't you expect them in involve Bob in the discussions?

[Graham Banks]

You forgot the bit where Vas said that without what he learned from Fruit, Rybka would only be about 20 elo weaker.

No sir... I didn't forget. I intentionally left that out.

When Vas makes these "estimations" I take what he says with a grain of salt i.e. I don't lend much credence to them.

A) Because only he really knows... and in this case even he doesn't really know. And
B) From what I know of Vas, he likes to keep his cards very, very close to his vest.

But he does reveal much when he says, "Yes, the publication of Fruit 2.1 was huge. Look at how many engines took a massive jump in its wake..." { (my) emphasis added }

I don't equate "20 elo" with "massive" or "huge." This was his personal perspective how he benefited from Fruit.

I am reminded of the scene in T2 where Dr. Miles Dyson is explaining to Sarah Connor (et al.) about how the CPU from the first Terminator, "... it didn't work. But it gave us ideas. It took us in new directions... things we would never have... thought... of..."

Well, I can't argue with the fact that we only have his word for it.

Cheers,
Graham.

[Terry McCracken]

What I'm getting at is that the Rybka = Fruit clone accusers should talk to Ryan because he's obviously the Fruit expert.

Cheers,
Graham.

That's daft reasoning as he isn't unique in reading source code regardless of his intimate knowledge of Fruit.

No, but if somebody thought that an engine was a Crafty clone, wouldn't you expect them in involve Bob in the discussions?

Then invite Ryan and Vas to speak rather than speak for them. They can speak anytime they so choose.

If they won't speak then I rest my case.


Your constant circular reasoning is growing tiresome.

[Graham Banks]

Then invite Ryan and Vas to speak rather than speak for them. They can speak anytime they so choose.

If they won't speak then I rest my case.

Fair enough point. In my opinion, Vas should certainly have said more. Perhaps I'm just too trusting.

[Terry McCracken]

Then invite Ryan and Vas to speak rather than speak for them. They can speak anytime they so choose.

If they won't speak then I rest my case.

Fair enough point. In my opinion, Vas should certainly have said more. Perhaps I'm just too trusting.

Yes, I think that may be the problem...OTOH I don`t trust anyone.

[Watchman]

I think for practical purposes, if a misdemeanor or felony arrest is made during a traffic stop, an officer shouldn't have to justify a subsequent search of the vehicle. That is just common sense to anyone who has worked a traffic stop, but seems common sense is not so common anymore.

Let me tell you a little secret. If "Reasonable Suspicion" is the only threshold one must meet to make an automobile search, then the Supreme Court ruling has very little impact in changing law enforcement practice. It will require the officer to add a one or two line statement (maybe... if that) in the incident report. Other than that... nada. It is an absolutely inconsequential ruling as long as you do what you are supposed to do to cover yourself.

Btw... you need not school me on Fourth Amendment issues. I have had plenty of that already from many law enforcement classes on the subject to actual street practice. You have no idea how appreciative this has made me as a "civilian."

What would you do if I walked into the police station, pointed you out, and said "you stole my car, I want you arrested and put in jail."??? Do you arrest someone based on the statement of one person?

Is this a test btw? Well... If you said "stole my car" no obviously I don't have enough to make a warrantless arrest for something I didn't observe... I take your information... who you said it was... their information (probably run him for outstanding warrants) and file a report. Maybe I'd call a supervisor so he could notify a detective.

But Officers can and do make arrests everyday on just someone else's word. It is so simple to have someone arrested. And I am not referring to violation of a court separation order (husband told by court to stay away from wife, wife calls 911 saying husband is there. Husband is GOA when officers show up and see court order wife has. Officers drive over to husband's house, who has been watching football for the entire time but has no way to corroborate that; husband then arrested for violating court order). There are other ways which I refuse to explain as I don't care to provide instructions on "how to have thy neighbor arrested."

Btw... you’re asking about having to be "proven" guilty or innocent. Watch someone go through the our "Criminal Justice System" and you soon realize it's not a matter of demonstrating guilt. In our justice system, you are guilty until you manage to demonstrate your innocence. That is my opinion from seeing firsthand how the system works.

That is _exactly_ what has happened here. "innocent until proven guilty" is still the rule of law here.

No it isn't! Not by a long shot! You can't take what is essentially a civil matter and throw it into Criminal Court! You can't apply the Law willy nilly as you please! Although I know many who would like to do that! IF and I say IF this matter were to even make it to the inside of a civil proceeding, the Burden of Proof is not "Beyond Reasonable Doubt" but a 51 to 49 "Preponderance of the Evidence" i.e. more likely than not.

Vas made the claim, it is clearly his responsibility to offer proof to back up that claim would you not think? Or do we let anyone make a claim and react to it as if it is absolute truth?

Why do we need "proof"? We go from Criminal Law (Beyond Reasonable Doubt) to Civil Law (Preponderance of the Evidence) to Forum "Law." I say all that is needed here is a much lower standard than "More Likely than Not!" I propose the SAR Standard (Sounds About Right). Now I don't go to the other extreme to consider what Vas says as "absolute truth." Vas said Robbolito is a clone of Rybka. Using my "Forum Standard" it “sounds about right” that this is accurate. Could he be fooling me? Sure! So what? If at some point we find out he is a liar on such matters, we can then say, "Be gone! You are a liar on such matters and not a trustworthy source!" End of story. But to apply such high standards that are imposed on Criminal Proceedings is absolutely ridiculous to me. Do we have a court recorder? Who swears us in? Where's the Judge? What are my rights! And the list is endless and so are the costs in real dollars.

What there really needs to be in this community, in my opinion, is some sort of Oversight Committee. There has to be some sort of accountability by people who are not only well respected, but would understand the programming sections (or however the Engine Author wanted to demonstrate a claim). And there has to be a very real penalty for not complying with this Governing Board. But all this takes time and probably money... so... until then...

Why should Vas want or need to make any other statements?

[Cubeman]

Vas said Robbolito is a clone of Rybka. Using my "Forum Standard" it “sounds about right” that this is accurate. Could he be fooling me? Sure! So what? If at some point we find out he is a liar on such matters, we can then say, "Be gone! You are a liar on such matters and not a trustworthy source!"



Why should Vas want or need to make any other statements?

You trust Vas this much?
He has motive and previous statements from him have shown to be false.
All I ask is for him to put up or shut up.Seems he has chosen the shut up option.Therefore he has no proof or evidence.In NZ this case would be dismissed due to lack of evidence.