What's Vasik Rajlich doing today?

[Rebel]

Fern, what I learned from the whole event, thus in retrospect, is that the main mistake was made right from the beginning, good and experienced programmers thinking they also were experts in the field of clone detection. Neither of us were, myself included. Then a guy like Andrew Dalke (a real expert) comes along and tears the whole case into pieces.

Not a popular statement, I am sure.

[Terry McCracken]

Thank you for your kind words, but I do not believe to be at fault in this, neither to be a fool. If I am, then I am in good company, beginning with ed Schroeder. world class programmer.
My impression was then, years ago, the same as it is today; vasik created such amount of envy and rage that something was searched to bust him and they found those Fruits lines or parts that obviously must be there, in fact, must be and probably they are in ANY modern engine, as any modern car use 4 wheels as the first invented.

Fern

Ed is not to be trusted. There's something not right with your thinking Fern, yes.

[Terry McCracken]

Fern, what I learned from the whole event, thus in retrospect, is that the main mistake was made right from the beginning, good and experienced programmers thinking they also were experts in the field of clone detection. Neither of us were, myself included. Then a guy like Andrew Dalke (a real expert) comes along and tears the whole case into pieces.

Not a popular statement, I am sure.

This is why I can't respect or trust any thing you say Ed.

[fern]

If you demonstrate me that, I will accept I am wrong
Respect ED, I do trust him. No reasons not to.

[bob]

Hi Sedat,

I am not saying Rybka is a full clone.
I am saying that Vas never speak about it from where from his knowlege before he starts with Rybka 1. I say that I am sure that Vas is a talented programmer but goes the wrong way. And I am saying that I will read in readme.txt ...

I am using the ideas from ... if so!
That's all ...

Have a look in the first message from today to Ed.
My 5 Points ...

Which had nothing to do with the question at hand, there is no R5 because of the abasement he got from a large part of this community.

You make this sound like a strictly one-way-street. It was anything BUT. He made many bad choices that led to his "abasement".

[Frank Quisinsky]

All is very easy!
If sources are used from an open source engine (Fruit), sources of Rybka must be free too. After six years no statement about it.

Status of the first Rybka version is unclear but with a high probability that ...

You say it before!
Fact is fact ...

Other case is Houdini!
All is from me sayed the programmer after his first released version. He used to 99% sources of Robolite 0.9 or a version before / Igorit, cleaned by Norman. Norman released without open sources. That was bad, an other one used the work. In this case more or less a big lie. I am thinking we don't need such programs if the programmer are not honest to us. Selling later is the next topic.

Again, that is fact!

In case of Rybka ...
We have a honest programmer "Fabien" and maybe a programmer used the work by Fabien for selling. Means if Rybka 1.0 based on Fruit ... more as possible after all what is to read about it, is this not right. Before clearly proofs are available, a clearly statement about it by Vas Rybka should be ignored after all what we know today about it.

I think the topic is today easy to understand.
I can't understand if others have an other opinion about it or build own fantasies.

Maybe ... the view from customers:
I gave my money and will used it. Persons like it to identify with a Software product if lay out money for it. Such things I can understand. The old opinion ... free software must be bad and commercial software must be good. That's all ... not really important!

Best
Frank

[bob]

Fern, what I learned from the whole event, thus in retrospect, is that the main mistake was made right from the beginning, good and experienced programmers thinking they also were experts in the field of clone detection. Neither of us were, myself included. Then a guy like Andrew Dalke (a real expert) comes along and tears the whole case into pieces.

Not a popular statement, I am sure.

Nor a factual statement either. He did not "tear the whole case into pieces". But you do have to read what he wrote carefully to get his meaning. Which is significantly different than what you are implying here...

[fern]

Where did you get the idea I am a religious nuts?
I like to discuss that issue and many others, that is all.
Let me tell you, BTW, that there are nuts everywhere, many of them in the realms of science. I have seen too many scientist denying without giving probe that such and such affirmation is false or "non scientific", but just saying it is false with that arrogance so typical in that labour sector. Science is just a tool as a hammer is, and that's all.

Fern

[Sedat Canbaz]

Dear Frank,

I see you are again on this thread )) hehe...
Still is not boring... ?

Ok, just my 2 cents more...
I see that you are not well informed about Rybka

Arena 3.5 GUI includes a free version: Rybka 2.3.2a

If anybody is still not bought Rybka, then no problem free public Rybka versions are available...
Simply then they can use Ippolit engines, they are highly based on Rybka chess engine !!

In other words, don't worry anymore...
Even the latest version of Rybka is already free...released with name IPPOLIT

About you rest comments,
For example, Houdini 1.5a is free too, you can download it from Houidini's site
Yes...Houdini engine maybe is not 100% original...
*Meanwhile, I wonder too: which chess engine is 100 % original ??))
Anyway, Houdini's author managed to improve IPPO (Rybka) approx. 200 Elo
That means a lot for me...

I wonder too,
Is there other author who managed to make such Elo inproovment firstly
A little note: after when Rybka is cracked and released/shared to public


Yes...for you is not important Elo
Then..I suggest you to test 1000 Elo - 2000 Elo programs )))


About Fire's author
I noticed that you praised also a lot Norman's work...good
I noticed also that Norman is joking with Vas...hmm, well - done to Norman
But Fire's author forgets something:
- Without Rybka, Fire would not be so strong as nowadays !
I have to agree, Norman is a good programmer too and he is an expert on cleaning Rybka codes )!
But however, I hope to see Fire 5 as new World strongest chess engine !

And last,
As far as I know about from the past to the present:
- All world's strongest chess engines were not free (exception Stockfish)
That's why...please...it's enough...


Best,
Sedat

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Sedat,

I have nothing to do with Arena since 2006.
If I am working with Martin, never I would add Rybka in Arena Setup. I added nice engines like Gaviota

All the time ...
Your start Point is the problem!
You have to start with Rybka 1.0 Beta 7 - 16 and compare it with SIM3. Do it version for version. Read the older messages you can find in TalkChess.

Most important is the first step, not the second or third step. Later in Rybka development Vas have many helpers. Rybka are stronger and stronger and I am sure he has own ideas too. But again, this isn't the Topic. The Topic is the first Version of Rybka!

And after so many years and all the Information we can find about it ... not a statement from him.

Enough!
This was an answere to Terry, not to you. We have discuss about it more as one time. I can't not follow your opinion about Rybka but about a lot of other things you wrote.

For me is Rybka and Houdini bad Computer chess history. After so many things I do so many years you have to understand that I can't accept such things. I like it to search the honest way!

Best
Frank