What to play against 1. d4 ?

[Henk]

If you play against a (much) weaker player you can not go for a draw with black.

Also there is a problem if you play against an old man. Their tactical play is much worse than their positional play. Maybe then you should play an opening with many tactical possibilities. In the long run they get tired etc. making blunders at the end.

[carldaman]

If the best 3 players of all time say e4 is better than d4, maybe it is.
And if the best 3 players of all time say after 1.e4 1...c5 is best, maybe it is.

...and none of them said that 1.c4 is the best.
I think 1.e4 gives more chance to win for the stronger player than other openings. This is the cause why the majority of strong players like 1.e4.
Moreover the chess teachers also like to begin its teaching with 1.e4.

When you reach a certain level, you may need to diversify and even switch away from 1. e4, as your opponents will tend to have pet lines prepared against it. I don't like playing an opening variation my [strong] opponent knows better than I do.

[corres]

[quote="carldaman"][quote="corres"][quote="Lyudmil Tsvetkov"]
If the best 3 players of all time say e4 is better than d4, maybe it is.
And if the best 3 players of all time say after 1.e4 1...c5 is best, maybe it is.[/quote]

...and none of them said that 1.c4 is the best.
I think 1.e4 gives more chance to win for the stronger player than other openings. This is the cause why the majority of strong players like 1.e4.
Moreover the chess teachers also like to begin its teaching with 1.e4.[/quote]

When you reach a certain level, you may need to diversify and even switch away from 1. e4, as your opponents will tend to have pet lines prepared against it. I don't like playing an opening variation my [strong] opponent knows better than I do.[/quote]

I agree with you.

[whereagles]

Alekhine comes to the rescue, providing refutation for the Agincourt defense to 1. c4:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1030774

Check Alekhine's comment to move 8

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

If you play against a (much) weaker player you can not go for a draw with black.

Also there is a problem if you play against an old man. Their tactical play is much worse than their positional play. Maybe then you should play an opening with many tactical possibilities. In the long run they get tired etc. making blunders at the end.

I sit on a table only against a pretty lady.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Alekhine comes to the rescue, providing refutation for the Agincourt defense to 1. c4:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1030774

Check Alekhine's comment to move 8

who the hell was Agincourt?

yeah, Alekhine was as always rigth, after d4 white has quite a bit of an advantage.

I think the Reti, 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4, is worse for white than 1.c4, as black can refrain from pushing d5-d4, and play c6 instead of e6, trying to develop the queen bishop either on f5 or g4, but still white retains some edge.

My understanding is that 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4 (as top engines like to play) 3. e4 (no one plays that, but for me it is the best move) leaves white with considerable advantage (a kingside chain attack will follow), while 3.e3 c5 4. ed4 cd4 5.g3 is evan slightly worse for white.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

6. h3 might be winning, but that does not mean the KID does not hold good lines for black. If h3 is not played, in any other line like 6.Bg5, 6.Be3, 6.Be2, black gets fully equal games, and, if upon f7-f5 white does not capture on f5, black could extend a d6-e5-f4 pawn chain, which tremendously favours black.

So, maybe, the mainline KID is objectively lost, but, with imperfect play, quite playable and even promising for black.

On the other hand, there are many different way to achieve non-standard KID structures, both with black and white. For example, after 1.e4 Nc6 (the Nimzovich defence, perfectly playable, though not played) 2.d4 d6 (e6 is much inferior) 3.d5 Nb8 4.c4 e5 5.Nc3 g6:

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p2p1/3Pp3/2P1P3/2N5/PP3PPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 6

black gets almost fully equal, white might have only a symbolic edge

Black will follow with Bg7, Ne7 (Nf6 is much weaker), possibly f5, nothing to fear, though top engines do not think that way, giving some 70-80cps white advantage. Of course, this is only due to their very coarse eval, tuned for different systems and pawn structures. I would say above score is in the range of 0.0-0.10.

Strangely enough, nowadays almost no one answers e4 with Nc6, while the much inferior Alekhine, 1.e4 Nf6, where black frequently is on the verge of losing, is sometimes played.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

One opening top engines do get rigth is the Benko (Volga) gambit after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5, after which, no matter if black continues with e6, b5, or e6 and b5, white gets considerably better, quite probably altogether won. The place of the black knight is simply not on f6, where it could be attacked and blocks the f7 pawn.

So, in my view, playing c5 on the second move after Nf6 has been played, is much inferior to answering straigth 1.d4 with c5.

[whereagles]

who the hell was Agincourt?

Agincourt was a battle between the french and english. This is why 1. c4 e6 is called the Agincourt defense: it is where the french (e6) meet the english (c4).

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

who the hell was Agincourt?

Agincourt was a battle between the french and english. This is why 1. c4 e6 is called the Agincourt defense: it is where the french (e6) meet the english (c4).

thanks for the explanation.

Agincourt,
un peu court
en raison
de la trahison

man, le cafe de la Regence, let's get back to that epoch...

On a completely different note, sorry for the inconvenience, it proves Alekhine defence is altogether lost.

after the main line, 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4. d4 d6, the following position is reached:

[d]rnbqkb1r/ppp1pppp/1n1p4/4P3/2PP4/8/PP3PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 5

and here, on move 5, white has a single winning move, f4, the 4 pawns attack, after which in all lines I get consistent +200cps scores from SF in some 20 moves or so.

Top engines prefer to play instead Nf3, and after Bg4 ed6 ed6 (cd6 is also possible), the game simplifies a lot with symmetrical structures, and SF score does not in fact change from the same 40cps score for the next 20 moves or so.

It is to be expected the Alekhine is lost, white simply wins too many tempos by continuously chasing the knigth.

Why do not engines see f4 wins above?

Is not it strange that both mainline KID and the Alekhine, played by many on different levels, are actually lost?