Shredder 10.1 now released

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cooldalek

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by cooldalek »

mclane wrote:
I see no reason why Stefan should discount his engine because of Zap!Chess.
because deep shredder is weaker than zapchess zanzibar.
The amount of whinging on this board is unbelievable!

If you don't think it's worth the money, don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you.

Just quit your whinging
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Daniel Mehrmann
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Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by Daniel Mehrmann »

mclane wrote:
I see no reason why Stefan should discount his engine because of Zap!Chess.
because deep shredder is weaker than zapchess zanzibar.
and ? You don't need to buy it !

I never will understand people like you, whats your problem ?

Best,
Daniel
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mclane
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Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by mclane »

which problem ?
i just wondered that a 109 ELO weaker program costs twice as much.
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Daniel Mehrmann
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Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by Daniel Mehrmann »

mclane wrote:which problem ?
i just wondered that a 109 ELO weaker program costs twice as much.
:shock:

Do you say this about other programs as well ??

e.g Hiarcs MP

Or do you have just a problem with Shredder?

Best,
Daniel
AGove

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by AGove »

i just wondered that a 109 ELO weaker program costs twice as much.
Because it's a different package (different GUI with some different GUI features) from a different maker with a different marketing/selling history and with a different future. Are you truly still wondering why one product doesn't cost the same as another? Maybe you are. In which case, I'll leave you alone in your wonderment.
Richard Stickles

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by Richard Stickles »

mclane wrote:which problem ?
i just wondered that a 109 ELO weaker program costs twice as much.
Hi Mclane,

I’m sure you can appreciate the cost factor of maintaining a web site, working to better the engine community by uploading table bases. Supplying its own interface, supplying multiple versions (Linux) (Mac) Etc...

SMK works very hard to give everyone a complete and stable engine, GUI, and add-ons so what should he do just give that away? And maybe give you 40 buggy versions instead? For half the cost?

SMK deserves to be paid more then what he is making now, and I hope he does charge more for his efforts.

Do you think that once rybka has its own gui it will only be $40? I got news for you, I’m sure you will see a HUGE jump in cost, and never mind the various version that you have had to pay for. Do the Math. Doesn’t take a wizard to figure it out...

Regards
Richard
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mclane
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Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by mclane »

all you say is true.
i know stefan in person.
but my personal opinion on this topic is that i think the price of the
deep version is to high.

anyway. it was clear that any kind of criticism would lead to senseless defenses from the fandom-scene.
a sacrileg to have a different opinion or to ask questions :-)

i have no "problem" with shredder. why does any person believe i have?
because anybody sees my comment as an attack.

version 10 is old. and as it seems, we will have to wait for a stronger and better version. maybe until it has success in netherlands next championship.
maybe the jump in playing strength makes a new attractive product available.

but in the moment, and that is my opinion, the price is too high.

in times where you can get ARENA for free, you don't need a GUI anymore.
So i don't see a big point in getting another GUI for free.


@Daniel: concerning your request and the relation with hiarcs.
hiarcs11.1 MP is stronger than deepshredder10, isn't it ?



i am a little disapointed concerning Shredder. i thought stefan would try
to catch the top area again. but it seems he has not enough time in the moment.
lets hope the best for shredder11.

shredder for sure has to "fight" against Zapchess Zansibar (coming with 64 Bit GUI - a known GUI but at least a GUI that works under 64 Bit)
Hiarcs11.1 MP and Rybka.
And IMO relative to the those 3 opponents, the price is not justified.
in earlier times when there was no Zappa/Zapchess, no Rybka and not such a strong hiarcs, shredder products were always in the right area.
times have changed.
Last edited by mclane on Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nas

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by nas »

mclane wrote: anyway. it was clear that any kind of criticism would lead to senseless defenses from the fandom-scene.
a sacrileg to have a different opinion or to ask questions :-)
I hesitate to lengthen this already too long thread. Oh well. What you are seeing is loyalty to someone who consistently produces a quality product and treats his customers with respect (e.g. copy protection). My purchase of Shredder 9 UCI is something I have never regretted. I think people feel bad that someone like SMK cannot make more money working on chess software.

--just another fan boy ;-)
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mclane
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Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by mclane »

the times when the dedicated chess computers dominated the scene were over when stefan BEGAN his career.

this was the time when H+G was able to sell dedicated units for 1000 or 2000 EURO.
those times have gone.
the market is small and fast. loyalty is something rare in the capitalistic world. thats true.

IMO the last participations of shredder at championships have been desastrous.

reading the tournament diary was a pain for shredder fans.
to see the BIG shredder beeing shreddered into pieces was something unknown so far.
but it had happened to others too (genius).
sandro Necchi
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Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by sandro Necchi »

Uri Blass wrote:
Cubeman wrote:There is a difference maybe because Anthony Cozzie has stopped programming chess engines and so does not care about making a financial living from this pursuit.Where as SMK has continued to work on Shredder and deserves the most that he can get.Money is the incentive for him to keep on improving and good on him.
If 100 elo improvement is the result of stopping to program then it may be better if SMK also stop programming.

I find it hard to believe that SMK works full time job on shredder and get almost no improvement when Anthony Cozzie stopped programming and got 100 elo improvement in the same time.

Stopping programming is also not a reason not to prefer to earn as much as possible from what you programmed in the past so claiming that anthony does not care about money because he stopped programming is not convincing.

Uri
Uri,

most customers do not look for strenght only, but for strenght with options. The UCI GUI is simply fantastic for all the options it offers and does not have problems at all contrary to other guys. You can run 32 bit versions as well as 64 bit version with matches etc...full options.

Now, SMK is supplying as free update a version which is fully compatible with Vista.
I think this shows caring about the customers and not the opposite.

We are working to make the program stronger and SMK said Shredder 11 will be released this summer.

How can people know he is not making any progress if they do not see the experimental versions as I do?

Why people do not talk about what they know rather than what they do not know?

Ciao
Sandro
Sandro Necchi