Shredder 10.1 now released

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mariaclara
Posts: 4186
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:31 pm
Location: Sulu Sea

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by mariaclara »

:shock: :shock: :shock:
my opinion, the price is too high.
ummmm.................... yep :!:

.........me too............... :( :( :( :(
.
.

................. Mu Shin ..........................
sandro Necchi
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:18 pm

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by sandro Necchi »

mclane wrote:the times when the dedicated chess computers dominated the scene were over when stefan BEGAN his career.

this was the time when H+G was able to sell dedicated units for 1000 or 2000 EURO.
those times have gone.
the market is small and fast. loyalty is something rare in the capitalistic world. thats true.

IMO the last participations of shredder at championships have been desastrous.

reading the tournament diary was a pain for shredder fans.
to see the BIG shredder beeing shreddered into pieces was something unknown so far.
but it had happened to others too (genius).
The last WCCCC was not a disaster, but it came out that the gap we had over the competition was gone. Shredder was the only program that won against Rykba. It is since 2004 that I am asking Stefan to improve the engine a lot and to spend the needed time on this to do it, but so far he did not spent time enough to work on the engine to make it possible.

The tournament before the last one was a disaster as we did score quite low, but we used Shredder 10 commercial version and not a tournament version. The outcome to me was obvious. So no surprises at all.

The last tournament we partecipated we used a tournament version and we got second place behind Rybka.

It is clear we need to improve the program and this is what Stefan is actually doing for the next Shredder 11 release.

The Shredder is not dead...we will show it.
Sandro Necchi
Purple Haze

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by Purple Haze »

Shredder is dead. There is probably nothing SMK can do that will stop Rybka from remaining the best program in the world. Rybka will only get stronger and stronger. 1 hint you can tell SMK is to teach Shredder a better understanding of positional play and king side attacks.
sandro Necchi
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:18 pm

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by sandro Necchi »

Purple Haze wrote:Shredder is dead. There is probably nothing SMK can do that will stop Rybka from remaining the best program in the world. Rybka will only get stronger and stronger. 1 hint you can tell SMK is to teach Shredder a better understanding of positional play and king side attacks.
I am old enough to make only statemens of what I know.
I did not state Shredder will be stronger than Rykba as this would depends not only on Shredder, but on Rykba too.

Also who knows if another program will be the strongest of all in a short time? A program we do not know today....

So:

The past is known.
The present is known.
The future is NOT known..

Some people have more data to have a better picture of the NEAR future than others..., but not a real picture.
Sandro Necchi
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mclane
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Full name: Thorsten Czub

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by mclane »

i am sure you and stefan did a very good job sandro.

we all were surprised ourselved to see shredder beeing overtaken by other programs in the championships.
i could not have imagined it before.

but competition is IMO something good. from your comments i conclude that stefan has to do the living with a "normal" job and has not enough time for working on shredder.

this is completely understood sandro.
its the same with many other programmers. mark uniacke comes to my mind. they all have to finance their life with something else than computerchess.

as i said before, the times when computerchess financed your life was in the 80ties or 90ties or for some pioneers it was in the 70ties.

i wish you and the shredder team all the best for the next championship.
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mclane
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Location: US of Europe, germany
Full name: Thorsten Czub

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by mclane »

i would not be that sceptical like you are.
stefan meyer kahlen is very clever and has lots of ideas.
i am sure he could take over the top IF he would have enough time to spent on computerchess.
sandro Necchi
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:18 pm

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by sandro Necchi »

mclane wrote:i am sure you and stefan did a very good job sandro.

we all were surprised ourselved to see shredder beeing overtaken by other programs in the championships.
i could not have imagined it before.

but competition is IMO something good. from your comments i conclude that stefan has to do the living with a "normal" job and has not enough time for working on shredder.

this is completely understood sandro.
its the same with many other programmers. mark uniacke comes to my mind. they all have to finance their life with something else than computerchess.

as i said before, the times when computerchess financed your life was in the 80ties or 90ties or for some pioneers it was in the 70ties.

i wish you and the shredder team all the best for the next championship.
Thank you.

No, Stefan is full time dedicated to computer chess.

If you visit his web site you can see the many possible versions of Shredder available.

All of them together took a lot of work and time.

Some others programmers only work on the engine, so it is reasonable they make progress.

Stefan has time now to work on the engine, so people can expect to see progress on the strenght too.

Not many people would be satisfied only by a program 3500 Elo strong like me; most of them care about options more that strenght as the programs today are stronger already more than 99% of the people.

I personally believe the overall judgement of a program should include also the options it is offering and not only the strenght itself.
Sandro Necchi
sandro Necchi
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:18 pm

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by sandro Necchi »

sandro Necchi wrote:
mclane wrote:i am sure you and stefan did a very good job sandro.

we all were surprised ourselved to see shredder beeing overtaken by other programs in the championships.
i could not have imagined it before.

but competition is IMO something good. from your comments i conclude that stefan has to do the living with a "normal" job and has not enough time for working on shredder.

this is completely understood sandro.
its the same with many other programmers. mark uniacke comes to my mind. they all have to finance their life with something else than computerchess.

as i said before, the times when computerchess financed your life was in the 80ties or 90ties or for some pioneers it was in the 70ties.

i wish you and the shredder team all the best for the next championship.
Thank you.

No, Stefan is full time dedicated to computer chess.

If you visit his web site you can see the many possible versions of Shredder available.

All of them together took a lot of work and time.

Some others programmers only work on the engine, so it is reasonable they make progress.

Stefan has time now to work on the engine, so people can expect to see progress on the strenght too.

Not many people would be satisfied only by a program 3500 Elo strong like me; most of them care about options more that strenght as the programs today are stronger already more than 99% of the people.

I personally believe the overall judgement of a program should include also the options it is offering and not only the strenght itself.
I am not sceptical.

Since I had the impression some people here are sceptical, I wanted to let them know they are wrong.

That's all.

Ciao
Sandro Necchi
Purple Haze

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by Purple Haze »

What humans( aka, Kasparov, Topalov, Anand etc) have over computers. = Better understanding of King Attacks and better strategies. I think what we should be focusing on most is using chess computers as a learning tool.
Purple Haze

Re: Shredder 10.1 now released

Post by Purple Haze »

No computer chess programmer has been more dedicated to chess in the history of it's existence than that of Vasik Rajlich. I mean there are those you set the foundation, but they didn't consistently work at it daily like Rajlich.