Preliminary list of participants for ICT 7

[Stan Arts]

Well, that they even try to discourage people signing up is real stupid. Soon they'll have no one left. (Or an operator-only or even open-to-all (people having nothing to do with a program, just someone with a fast computer who bought fritz or whatever) tournament like they even proposed in a meeting a year ago..)

I have written an article for Computerschaak once.. but when the edition fell in my mailbox, I was surprised to find they had misspelled my name in every place in the magazine, quite a feat considering I had entered several CSVN tournaments already, had emailcorrespondence obviously with my name on it, as well as signing the article with my name when I sent it in. Since they tend to get something like .."Stefan Meyer Kahlen" right everytime that is another indication to me there is 0% interest in something like my program or it entering. Even if I enter a tournament again in the future (unlikely upon reading you got sent such an encouragement) I won't be writing any articles for them.. (otherwise I would of been glad to.)

Stan

Stan, I completely agree with your opinion about CSVN and 'ComputerSchaak'. I can say that my attempts to enter micro-Max were not really encouraged at first. To say that they were luke-warm would be a gross over-statement. When I proposed to enter it I actually got the reaction:

"We appreciate your enthousiasm, but you really should look at it from the viewpoint of the other participants, for whom it would be very annoying to have to play such a weak opponent..." (translation mine)

Although I could imagine there being valid reasons for not allowing two programs by the same author, I was truly flabbergasted by this one, as it seemed to be the most invalid of all possible reasons. If all starting programmers get such a reception, it is no wonder the tournament is dying.

But I don't think we should accept this fatalistically. For one, it is only partly the CSVN that is to blame. If we want to have articles about weaker engines, it is upto us to write them and submit them to Eric van Reem (editor of ComputerSchaak). I don't think he would be really against this: He invited me to write about Usurpator when I reappeared with it in the ONK 2005, and the story was pubished (although it was more a narrative than a technical description). He asked me again to write about my participation with Joker in ONK 2006, but I declined as I had little to say. I did send him a story about micro-Max recently, which contains also a popular description of how it works. I have good hopes that this will be pubished in ComputerSchaak too.

So if we want to improve matters, it is upto us to take action. And the first step should be to be present in Leiden, to make the tournament more fun. So please be there, and please write something about your engine for ComputerSchaak!

[Harvey Williamson]

Well, that they even try to discourage people signing up is real stupid. Soon they'll have no one left. (Or an operator-only or even open-to-all (people having nothing to do with a program, just someone with a fast computer who bought fritz or whatever) tournament like they even proposed in a meeting a year ago..)

I have written an article for Computerschaak once.. but when the edition fell in my mailbox, I was surprised to find they had misspelled my name in every place in the magazine, quite a feat considering I had entered several CSVN tournaments already, had emailcorrespondence obviously with my name on it, as well as signing the article with my name when I sent it in. Since they tend to get something like .."Stefan Meyer Kahlen" right everytime that is another indication to me there is 0% interest in something like my program or it entering. Even if I enter a tournament again in the future (unlikely upon reading you got sent such an encouragement) I won't be writing any articles for them.. (otherwise I would of been glad to.)

Stan

Stan, I completely agree with your opinion about CSVN and 'ComputerSchaak'. I can say that my attempts to enter micro-Max were not really encouraged at first. To say that they were luke-warm would be a gross over-statement. When I proposed to enter it I actually got the reaction:

"We appreciate your enthousiasm, but you really should look at it from the viewpoint of the other participants, for whom it would be very annoying to have to play such a weak opponent..." (translation mine)

Although I could imagine there being valid reasons for not allowing two programs by the same author, I was truly flabbergasted by this one, as it seemed to be the most invalid of all possible reasons. If all starting programmers get such a reception, it is no wonder the tournament is dying.

But I don't think we should accept this fatalistically. For one, it is only partly the CSVN that is to blame. If we want to have articles about weaker engines, it is upto us to write them and submit them to Eric van Reem (editor of ComputerSchaak). I don't think he would be really against this: He invited me to write about Usurpator when I reappeared with it in the ONK 2005, and the story was pubished (although it was more a narrative than a technical description). He asked me again to write about my participation with Joker in ONK 2006, but I declined as I had little to say. I did send him a story about micro-Max recently, which contains also a popular description of how it works. I have good hopes that this will be pubished in ComputerSchaak too.

So if we want to improve matters, it is upto us to take action. And the first step should be to be present in Leiden, to make the tournament more fun. So please be there, and please write something about your engine for ComputerSchaak!

Does anybody know if the article I wrote for CSVN, about leiden in November, has been published in the magazine yet?

[Stan Arts]

Hi,

I would like to see alll the above engines playing at leiden. Yes I am an operator and this year Enrico will also be in Leiden i am sure we fit into this category (or a VERY close team member at least)

Hiarcs maybe a commercial program but I am travelling at my own expense to compete as is Enrico from the USA.

Best Wishes,

Harvey

Yup you two seem to qualify. You know the program you participate with well and are passionate about it. What is worse for example is when some program participates in Holland they get a (random) operator from holland on that random guy's computer, when they go to Italy they find some Italian, etc..

Hope you'll enjoy the trip!

Stan

[Harvey Williamson]

Hi,

I would like to see alll the above engines playing at leiden. Yes I am an operator and this year Enrico will also be in Leiden i am sure we fit into this category (or a VERY close team member at least)

Hiarcs maybe a commercial program but I am travelling at my own expense to compete as is Enrico from the USA.

Best Wishes,

Harvey

Yup you two seem to qualify. You know the program you participate with well and are passionate about it. What is worse for example is when some program participates in Holland they get a (random) operator from holland on that random guy's computer, when they go to Italy they find some Italian, etc..

Hope you'll enjoy the trip!



Stan

[pijl]

Well, the more the merrier. But operator-running is expressly forbidden, each program should come with its own operator.

I did not intend to do the running. My daughter will be present during the tournament and might be interested in doing some operating work. I should ask her before registering though
Richard.

Well, I asked her and she basically sent me to my room to start improving CTD
Richard.

[Harvey Williamson]

Hi all,

Today, I looked in my glass onion and I saw Erdo entering the tournament with an 8-way Opteron machine and Zap Chess Zanzibar.

The future will show how reliable the info is, but keep checking this side http://www.csvn.nl/index.php?option=com ... 1&Itemid=1

Best wishes,
André

Hi Andre,

I hear that zap has now joined and that as I write this Scorpio is asking the mighty Theo if it can play. Its looking like a good few days.

Will your baby son Jeroen be coming to poop on anyone who beats Hiarcs?

See you next week!

Harvey

ps does the headline here mean I am now published in Dutch? http://www.csvn.nl/index.php?option=com ... &Itemid=45

[Andre van Ark]

Hi Harvey!

Nice to see that so many interesting programs (and operators) join the tournament!

My son poops very often and very much but sofar not on command. However, I still have a week left to teach him that.

Yes, you are published in Dutch, thanks again for the nice article!

Cu next week.

André

[Theo van der Storm]

....When I proposed to enter it I actually got the reaction:

"We appreciate your enthousiasm, but you really should look at it from the viewpoint of the other participants, for whom it would be very annoying to have to play such a weak opponent..." (translation mine)

Although I could imagine there being valid reasons for not allowing two programs by the same author, I was truly flabbergasted by this one, as it seemed to be the most invalid of all possible reasons.....

I'm disappointed by your false quote, which does not represent the spirit of my messages to you.

[Theo van der Storm]

....., still I'd like to comment that IMHO the CSVN focusses too much on making it a strong tournament instead of making it a fun programmer tournament. Now you see operators for most of the commercials but I don't want to play against commercial programs not operated by their programmer (or a VERY close teammember atleast) , because those games tend to have a mutual lack of interest, then I can better stay at home as well.

We want to have both: a strong tournament, which is fun for the programmers. Fortunately the top programmers, when they cannot make it to the tournament hall, are usually represented by someone with real involvement (book, beta-testing, etc.). Mutual? As an ex-computer-chess programmer I cannot imagine a lack of interest in my own program's game. That someone loses interest in a very one-sided game has little to do with the question if an operator or a programmer is there.

I think CSVN should try harder to encourage amateur programmers, there are enough in Holland to make 30-40 participants or something, but for example in the CSVN magazine you can read nothing about amateur programs while there are a lot of interesting Dutch programs and programmers and I would much like to read interviews and technical stories and such. Reading how a 1200 Elo program started out is also about 1200x more interesting to me then reading about Rybka vs Rybka in playchess.

The editor actively contacts and interviews programmers. We could have a some more technical stories, agreed, but this depends first and foremost on the programmers themselves.

Well, that they even try to discourage people signing up is real stupid. Soon they'll have no one left. (Or an operator-only or even open-to-all (people having nothing to do with a program, just someone with a fast computer who bought fritz or whatever) tournament like they even proposed in a meeting a year ago..)

Of course, what you write is not true. We encourage everybody to sign up and try to get to the start as strong as possible. We would probably accept a 1200 Elo program from a newcomer. We would ask a programmer of an 600-800 Elo program, if he's absolutely sure he wants to play a tournament at that time already.
The "proposal" you mention was only a remark in a brainstorm session. I was happy this idea was abandoned very quickly.

I have written an article for Computerschaak once.. but when the edition fell in my mailbox, I was surprised to find they had misspelled my name in every place in the magazine, quite a feat considering I had entered several CSVN tournaments already, had emailcorrespondence obviously with my name on it, as well as signing the article with my name when I sent it in. Since they tend to get something like .."Stefan Meyer Kahlen" right everytime that is another indication to me there is 0% interest in something like my program or it entering. Even if I enter a tournament again in the future (unlikely upon reading you got sent such an encouragement) I won't be writing any articles for them.. (otherwise I would of been glad to.)
Stan

And all of this, because someone misspelled your name?
If you have such a negative attitude then maybe you had better stay at home.

[Allard Siemelink]

I am a bit disappointed about the Dutch participation. Has micro-Max really scared them away?

Where is Bright?
Where is SpiderChess?
Where is ANT?
Where is Neurosis?
Where is Zzzzzz?
Where is Brutus?
Where is J.S.BAM?
Where is BikJump?
Where is POS?

Only because of their absence micro-Max will now end in the lower half of the ranking!

Well, Bright will not participate since I do not have three days (nor the hardware) to spare for the tournament.
As I actually live in Leiden, I may drop by for a visit though.