Strelka again

[cooldalek]

Personally, I'm not quite sure why accusations that something is a clone (without any foundation) and besmirching someone's reputation doesn't get you at least a temporary ban from this board.

If that happened, perhaps people would think twice before making such claims

I am pleased there is now a thread where a load of people are eating humble pie. But does that make up for the author feeling low and upset all the last week?

We need to stop unfounded accusations. I recommend all those who falsely accused are given a 1 week ban

Hopefully many have learnt a valuable lesson through this and will not be as quick to cast aspersions so readily in future cases.

Regards, Graham.

Maybe. But, while a supporter of yours Graham, I do think the moderation team fell down here. You should have acted hard and fast when talk of clones first came out. I still think those people should be punished.

But at the very least perhaps you could clearly say that, in future, nobody should make accusations like this again and if they do so they will have a 2 week / 1 month / 3 month / permanent ban depending on whether it is a repeat offence or not

Now if someone at CCC wants to offer a service to verify that an engine is not a clone then that is fine. Or if people want to offer that person/team evidence then that is fine too. But don't broadcast it on a public message board

Have you ever heard of freedom of speech?

Have you ever heard of libel?

[Tony Thomas]

Personally, I'm not quite sure why accusations that something is a clone (without any foundation) and besmirching someone's reputation doesn't get you at least a temporary ban from this board.

If that happened, perhaps people would think twice before making such claims

I am pleased there is now a thread where a load of people are eating humble pie. But does that make up for the author feeling low and upset all the last week?

We need to stop unfounded accusations. I recommend all those who falsely accused are given a 1 week ban

Hopefully many have learnt a valuable lesson through this and will not be as quick to cast aspersions so readily in future cases.

Regards, Graham.

Maybe. But, while a supporter of yours Graham, I do think the moderation team fell down here. You should have acted hard and fast when talk of clones first came out. I still think those people should be punished.

But at the very least perhaps you could clearly say that, in future, nobody should make accusations like this again and if they do so they will have a 2 week / 1 month / 3 month / permanent ban depending on whether it is a repeat offence or not

Now if someone at CCC wants to offer a service to verify that an engine is not a clone then that is fine. Or if people want to offer that person/team evidence then that is fine too. But don't broadcast it on a public message board

Have you ever heard of freedom of speech?

Have you ever heard of libel?

You answer my question first. Then I will answer yours.

[Vempele]

Have you ever heard of freedom of speech?

Have you ever heard of libel?

You answer my question first. Then I will answer yours.

Have either of you heard of only quoting the relevant parts of a post? Or keeping to the topic?

And yes, I've heard of both. Personally, I'd like a permanent ban on the troll who claimed he had decompiled both Rybka and Strelka. He was actually the only one who directly accused Strelka of being a clone (others just voiced their suspicions).

Incidentally, why didn't anyone simply do a ponderhit analysis on a game (or match) between the two?

[Zlaire]

Personally, I'd like a permanent ban on the troll who claimed he had decompiled both Rybka and Strelka. He was actually the only one who directly accused Strelka of being a clone (others just voiced their suspicions).

Agreed, but that is one of the very few unfounded accusations I have seen about Strelka this week. Pretty much every other suspicion came with a perfectly good reason (position or other).

I think Thorsten got it perfectly right. Discussing is what a forum is about, and that is exactly what people have done about Strelka the last week.

[mclane]

Personally, I'd like a permanent ban on the troll who claimed he had decompiled both Rybka and Strelka. He was actually the only one who directly accused Strelka of being a clone (others just voiced their suspicions).

as far as i know
nobody complained about this statement.
Instead of posting THAT you would like something i would advise THAT you complain to the moderators.

[rjand]

This talk of somehow punishing those members who questioned the authenticity of Strelka is nonsense. Unfortunately cloning has been a issue before and when a powerful program pops out of nowhere it's understandable why it's viewed with a critical eye. Especially when they feel they have evidence that bears this out. Reminds me of the saying "Fool me once shame on you - Fool me twice shame on me". I admire those who showed why they questioned it as I do the ones who defended the program. The truth has been brought to light and some members are admitting they were mistaken. (also admirable) As for hurting the authors reputation if anything it helped it. Strelka threads have been some of the more enjoyable threads (imho) lately. And I for one don't like to clutter up my hard drive for just any chess program but my interest was stoked due to these threads and Strelka is now on my computer.

Best, Rick Andrews

[GenoM]

Hi Thomas

I can't reproduce it too. You made probably the right guess -- may be it is something wrong under Fritz GUI. Strelka lost a later game against Naum 2.0 after non-understanding underpromotion (under Arena GUI).

[Event "Strelka_Test_2A_10knockout"]
[Site "SMARTKID"]
[Date "2007.05.12"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Strelka v.1.0.beta"]
[Black "Naum 2.0 Mainz"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C16"]
[Opening "French"]
[Time "normal"]
[Variation "Winawer, Advance, 4...Ne7 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 b6 7.Qg4"]
[TimeControl "40/2400:40/2400:40/2400"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "109"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

[D]6k1/5p1p/1p2p1pP/p2nP1P1/2rp4/1n1N2R1/q1p1QP1K/4R3 b - - 7 53

53... c1=N {(53. ... c1N 54.Qxa2 Nxa2 55.Rb1 Nbc1
56.Ne1 Nab4 57.Ra3 d3 58.Nf3 Rc2 59.Kg2 Ne2 60.Ne1 Rc3 61.Rxc3 Nexc3 62.Rb2) +7.29/16
61} 54.Qxa2 {(54.Qxa2 Nc2 55.Qa3 a4 56.Qd6 Rc8 57.Kh3 b5 58.Kg4 Ncc7 59.Qa3 Nd8
60.Re2 Nf8 61.Qd6 a3) -2.47/16 25} Nxa2 {(54. ... Nxa2 55.Rb1 Nbc1 56.Ne1 Nab4 57.Ra3
d3 58.Nf3 Rc2 59.Kg2 Ne2 60.Ne1 Rc3 61.Rxc3 Nexc3 62.Rb2) +7.29/15} 55.Reg1
{(55.Reg1 Rc3 56.R1g2 Nb1 57.Rg1 Nc2 58.R1g2 Rxd3 59.f3 Nd2 60.Kh1 Nf4 61.Rf2 Ne2 62.Rxe2
Nd1 63.Rg1 Nxe2) -16.75/17 43 White resigns} {White resigns} 0-1

Look at the PV of Strelka after Qxa2 -- it thinks that black Queen is promoted, not a Knight

PS:
my first impression about Strelka: it's not so strong to compete with majors in chessengine world yet. It has much work to do -- for example Strelka has no understanding of some endgame positions and many half-points are lost in such way.