Houdini 3 Oct 10 Release??

[S.Taylor]

I would be very interested to see how a direct match goes between Hiarcs 14 and Houdini 3, and to see the games, too.

I would like to see the styles.

TCEC was the easiest for me to follow.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

According to that test Stockfish 2.3.1 is stronger than Houdini 2.0c !!

That just demonstrates once again that self-play (i.e. playing related engines) overstates rating differences.

The new Houdini is plus 40 Elo at best when in falls in the arms of the testers who are living in the real world........

Note that I wrote at best....
Dr.D

[S.Taylor]

According to that test Stockfish 2.3.1 is stronger than Houdini 2.0c !!

That just demonstrates once again that self-play (i.e. playing related engines) overstates rating differences.

The new Houdini is plus 40 Elo at best when in falls in the arms of the testers who are living in the real world........

Note that I wrote at best....
Dr.D

can you please explain?

what do the testers in the real world do different?

[lkaufman]

That just demonstrates once again that self-play (i.e. playing related engines) overstates rating differences.

Yes, but it incrases the sales a lot. You should try it

Well, I think sales will be driven by results of independent testers, not by results claimed by the programmers. IPON usually has results within two days. But anyway, there is nothing wrong with quoting self-play results, they just should not be combined with foreign-play results to estimate rating gains. If you only have self-play results to go by, lop a third or more off of the rating gain for a crude estimate of what it will show against unrelated engines, but this is highly variable depending on the nature of the improvements.

[beram]

At CCRL at LTC 40/40, Houdini 1.5a and Houdini 2.0c scored 49% and 50 % Against Komodo5.
So Houdini3beta at LTC 62%(!) against Komodo 5 is almost incredible.
But we have the games for proof.

I wouldn't be surprised if the improvement is less than 60 ELO, but my strong guess is that it must be 40 ELO at least and "even" that would be a very great achievement.

grts Bram

Code: Select all

The 3 long TC matches have now finished.

Houdini 3 - Komodo 5 match: +43 -19 =58
72-48 (+68 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Houdini 3 - Stockfish 2.3.1 match: +44 -16 =60
74-46 (+82 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Houdini 3 - Houdini 2.0c match: +48 -15 =57
76.5-43.5 (+94 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Download All the Games: http://www.cruxis.com/download/Houdini3_LongTC_Matches.zip

Over-all result: Houdini 3 scored 61.8% (+81 Elo ± 24 Elo) against the average of Houdini 2.0c, Komodo 5 and Stockfish 2.3.1.

[LudiBuda]

They don't receive money for publishing 'sensational' results.

[beram]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Houdini-C ... 0926948947

Friday 12th or Oct. 15 release date.
Houdini 3 test about 40-60 elo stronger than Stockfish?
That's about what Houdini 1.5 tests now in my tests.

Best,
Gerold.

Houdini 3 - Stockfish 2.3.1 match: +44 -16 =60
74-46 (+82 Elo ± 42 Elo).

[Uri Blass]

At CCRL at LTC 40/40, Houdini 1.5a and Houdini 2.0c scored 49% and 50 % Against Komodo5.
So Houdini3beta at LTC 62%(!) against Komodo 5 is almost incredible.
But we have the games for proof.

The result against komodo5 was 60% and not 62%.

Note that based on the results I am not going to be surprised if houdini is really 60 elo improvement at long time control and
I guess that it is more than 40 elo.

Komodo5 is very close to houdini3 at long time control so +68 elo performance against it suggests more than 40 elo.

[lkaufman]

At CCRL at LTC 40/40, Houdini 1.5a and Houdini 2.0c scored 49% and 50 % Against Komodo5.
So Houdini3beta at LTC 62%(!) against Komodo 5 is almost incredible.
But we have the games for proof.

I wouldn't be surprised if the improvement is less than 60 ELO, but my strong guess is that it must be 40 ELO at least and "even" that would be a very great achievement.

grts Bram

Code: Select all

The 3 long TC matches have now finished.

Houdini 3 - Komodo 5 match: +43 -19 =58
72-48 (+68 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Houdini 3 - Stockfish 2.3.1 match: +44 -16 =60
74-46 (+82 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Houdini 3 - Houdini 2.0c match: +48 -15 =57
76.5-43.5 (+94 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Download All the Games: http://www.cruxis.com/download/Houdini3_LongTC_Matches.zip

Over-all result: Houdini 3 scored 61.8% (+81 Elo ± 24 Elo) against the average of Houdini 2.0c, Komodo 5 and Stockfish 2.3.1.

Well, having the games is no proof of anything, this could just be the best of three results for example. I'm not accusing anyone here, just pointing out the need for independent tests. More likely Houdini 3 was just luckier than Houdini 2/1.5 against Komodo; what is the improvement if you do the same comparison for the Stockfish match? It looks like you picked out one of the two (non-self play) results to make a point.

[beram]

At CCRL at LTC 40/40, Houdini 1.5a and Houdini 2.0c scored 49% and 50 % Against Komodo5.
So Houdini3beta at LTC 62%(!) against Komodo 5 is almost incredible.
But we have the games for proof.

I wouldn't be surprised if the improvement is less than 60 ELO, but my strong guess is that it must be 40 ELO at least and "even" that would be a very great achievement.

grts Bram

Code: Select all

The 3 long TC matches have now finished.

Houdini 3 - Komodo 5 match: +43 -19 =58
72-48 (+68 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Houdini 3 - Stockfish 2.3.1 match: +44 -16 =60
74-46 (+82 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Houdini 3 - Houdini 2.0c match: +48 -15 =57
76.5-43.5 (+94 Elo ± 42 Elo).

Download All the Games: http://www.cruxis.com/download/Houdini3_LongTC_Matches.zip

Over-all result: Houdini 3 scored 61.8% (+81 Elo ± 24 Elo) against the average of Houdini 2.0c, Komodo 5 and Stockfish 2.3.1.

Well, having the games is no proof of anything, this could just be the best of three results for example. I'm not accusing anyone here(.....)just pointing out the need for independent tests. More likely Houdini 3 was just luckier(.....) than Houdini 2/1.5 against Komodo; what is the improvement if you do the same comparison for the Stockfish match? It looks like you picked out one of the two (non-self play) results to make a point.

http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%2 ... ons/4.html
perhaps this will say someting more ? 49% and 55% for H15 and H2 against Stfish 2.3 at CEGT 40/20 and 61,6% for H3 against stfish2.3 !