It would be appreciated.BrendanJNorman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:27 amSorry buddy, I'm a huge fan of Ethereal too...will share a nice game or two when I can.
Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
That's totally okay. It would not be okay if the farmer tries to distract you from the manure by talking about cow moos, refuses to answer questions about whether he agrees that there is a pickup load of manure, etc.Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:58 am To a farmer, there is nothing more beautiful than a big old pickup load of manure.**
(** Probably not true, but we can pretend it is, as long as no farmers read this thread.)
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
Actually almost fifty years ago since I played serious chess, but my level of understanding remains. 221 BCF = 2400 FIDE Elo equivalent.Milos wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:48 amOh man, how do you not get tired of constantly repeating that nonsense???chrisw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:23 am White could maybe draw, but not win. Isn’t the main feature if this game that Leela/AZ-MCTS technology saw the drawn theme way way back, played for it, and held the state that was the draw. The AB program, essentially evaluating each node as if it had no past, was just a stand alone node, had no idea of flow. AB program had no idea it was stuck and had nothing it could do. That’s the level of the difference, simply orders of magnitude of more “understanding” of the GAME, as a result of understanding the flow of the game.
White missed/blundered/bugged a win at least 10 times in this game.
The only one who has no idea about anything seems to be you. Your knowledge of chess seems to be frozen in time when you wrote your last engine 20+ years ago. Or 1500 Elo ago...
If you don’t get it, you don’t get it, nothing I can do. Your level of understanding plus lack of playful brain (rush to fixed judgement) is a handicap. Have a nice day.
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
With clear hash (fresh run), SF (AB-engine) treat 64. Qd8 as blunder in less than 700K nodes (230 milliseconds on low-end smartphone for $120) and find draw for Rook @ h-file in 1.49 MN (0.5 sec on smartphone)chrisw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:23 am Isn’t the main feature if this game that Leela/AZ-MCTS technology saw the drawn theme way way back, played for it, and held the state that was the draw. The AB program, essentially evaluating each node as if it had no past, was just a stand alone node, had no idea of flow.
AB engines are "written by hand" by their authors. You cannot say where ELO come from. High-elo doesn't necessarily mean it is "strong all-around player" who never blunders. Some aspects of game could have not yet been covered by author's efforts (and if he does that - might gain some +20 ELO).
True. There was always dilemma "knowledge vs depth". Heavy evaluation function vs speed/depth.
This game is "bullet game", Ethereal reach D=19 +-2 for 30 moves prior to blunder @ 64.That is <1 sec per move @ low-end smartphone.
More knowledge favour in STC, more speed favour in LTC.
Lc0 win in "WCCC7: Blitz Bonanza" proves this (the first time in eight Computer Chess Championships that Stockfish didn't win the tournament).
All 4 finalists were NN, not AB.
While @ LTC - AB still plays good.
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
I think we should really all agree that Ethereal blundered terribly on move 18 in a totally won position (that may still be won after the blunder). Not much understanding needed there.chrisw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:19 amIf you don’t get it, you don’t get it, nothing I can do. Your level of understanding plus lack of playful brain (rush to fixed judgement) is a handicap.
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
It'd be interesting to see at what depth and number of nodes Ethereal finds the draw in that position.
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
Code: Select all
FEN: 3Q4/5p2/7k/4b1pP/1p1R4/1Pr5/p3r3/K6R b - - 3 64
Syzygy 6-man
Ethereal12.00-x64-pext:
1 5 3,79 64. ... Bxd4
2 16 3,79 64. ... Bxd4
3 77 -44,26 64. ... Rxb3
4 251 2,99 64. ... Bxd4
5 395 2,99 64. ... Bxd4
6 867 2,1 64. ... Rxb3
7 1k 2,1 64. ... Rxb3
8 2k 2,36 64. ... Rxb3
9 10k 2,99 64. ... Rxb3
10 20k 2,85 64. ... Rxb3
11 59k 2,99 64. ... Rxb3
12 67k 3,1 64. ... Rxb3
13 89k 2,43 64. ... Rxb3
14 297k 2,58 64. ... Rxb3
15 566k 3 64. ... Rxb3
16 892k 2,21 64. ... Rxb3
17 1 461k 1,94 64. ... Rxb3
18 2 308k 1,67 64. ... Rxb3
19 3 207k 1,38 64. ... Rxb3
20 5 623k 1,33 64. ... Rxb3
21- 7 457k 0,84 64. ... Rxb3
21 8 679k 0,84 64. ... Rxb3
22- 12 291k 0,7 64. ... Rxb3
22- 12 826k 0,56 64. ... Rxb3
22 13 180k 0,55 64. ... Rxb3
23 14 394k 0,55 64. ... Rxb3
24- 16 827k 0,41 64. ... Rxb3
24- 19 651k 0,27 64. ... Rxb3
24- 25 144k 0,06 64. ... Rxb3
24 29 601k 0,01 64. ... Rxb3
25 32 759k 0,01 64. ... Rxb3
26 37 148k 0,01 64. ... Rxb3
27 41 594k 0,01 64. ... Rxb3
28 45 002k 0 64. ... Rxb3
29 53 490k 0 64. ... Rxb3
30 55 710k 0 64. ... Rxb3
31 59 976k 0 64. ... Rxb3
32 65 794k 0 64. ... Rxb3
33 79 295k 0 64. ... Rxb3
34- 99 619k -0,14 64. ... Rf3
34- 154 530k -0,28 64. ... Rf3
34- 161 128k -0,49 64. ... Rf3
------------------------------------------------------------------
34- 188 667k -0,8 64. ... Rf3
34 223 305k -0,92 64. ... Rf3
35- 290 624k -1,06 64. ... Rf3
35- 327 679k -1,2 64. ... Rf3
35 471 870k -1,25 64. ... Rf3
36+ 583 676k -1,11
36- 619 437k -1,25 64. ... Rf3
36 721 300k -1,15 64. ... Rf3
37+ 1 405 331k -1,01
Code: Select all
no-Syzygy
1 5 3,79 64. ... Bxd4
2 15 3,79 64. ... Bxd4
3 73 -44,26 64. ... Rxb3
4 255 2,99 64. ... Bxd4
5 497 2,94 64. ... Bxd4
6 1k 3,39 64. ... Rxb3
7 2k 2,1 64. ... Rxb3
8 3k 2,19 64. ... Rxb3
9 8k 2,19 64. ... Rxb3
10 29k 3,64 64. ... Rxb3
11 42k 2,84 64. ... Rxb3
12 84k 2,91 64. ... Rxb3
13 163k 3,02 64. ... Rxb3
14 229k 2,7 64. ... Rxb3
15 514k 2,81 64. ... Rxb3
16 858k 1,23 64. ... Rf3
------------------------------------------------------------------
17 996k -0,51 64. ... Rf3
18 1 529k -0,51 64. ... Rf3
19 1 827k -0,62 64. ... Rf3
20 2 359k -0,73 64. ... Rf3
21 3 816k -0,97 64. ... Rf3
22- 6 638k -1,11 64. ... Rf3
22 7 040k -1,03 64. ... Rf3
23+ 8 129k -0,89
23 10 131k -0,96 64. ... Rf3
24+ 10 942k -0,82
24- 11 890k -0,96 64. ... Rf3
24 12 365k -0,98 64. ... Rf3
25+ 15 386k -0,84
25- 20 860k -0,98 64. ... Rf3
25 24 332k -0,91 64. ... Rf3
26+ 33 109k -0,77
26- 34 764k -0,91 64. ... Rf3
26 35 668k -0,84 64. ... Rf3
27- 40 683k -0,98 64. ... Rf3
27 49 233k -1,01 64. ... Rf3
28+ 55 063k -0,87
28- 57 953k -1,01 64. ... Rf3
28 63 331k -0,95 64. ... Rf3
29+ 97 783k -0,81
29- 103 144k -0,95 64. ... Rf3
29 107 671k -0,95 64. ... Rf3
30+ 117 086k -0,81
30- 125 999k -0,95 64. ... Rf3
30- 192 261k -1,16 64. ... Rf3
30 195 365k -1,1 64. ... Rf3
31+ 200 582k -0,96
31- 210 317k -1,1 64. ... Rf3
31 213 468k -1,01 64. ... Rf3
32- 246 390k -1,15 64. ... Rf3
32 292 346k -0,94 64. ... Rf3
Code: Select all
no-Syzygy
FEN: 8/5p2/7k/3Qb1pP/1p1R4/1Pr5/p3r3/K6R w - - 2 64
Ethereal12.00-x64-pext:
1 4 7,18 64.Rxb4
2 25 6,19 64.Rxb4
3 55 9,9 64.Rxb4
4 275 5,23 64.Qb5
5 504 5,9 64.Qb5
6 1k 5,94 64.Re4
7 2k 5,99 64.Re4
8 3k 5,89 64.Re4
9 4k 7,07 64.Re4
10 41k 4,17 64.Rhd1
11 54k 4,63 64.Rhd1
12 67k 4,44 64.Rhd1
13 98k 4,52 64.Rhd1
14 385k 4,5 64.Rf1
15 1 062k 3,89 64.Rhd1
16 1 723k 0,41 64.Qd8
17 1 977k -0,01 64.Qd8
18 2 048k -0,01 64.Qd8
------------------------------------------------------------------
19 2 733k -0,01 64.Rf1
20 2 918k 0,01 64.Rf1
21 3 216k 0,01 64.Rf1
22 3 508k 0,01 64.Rf1
23 4 226k 0 64.Rhd1
24 4 897k 0 64.Rhd1
25 6 094k 0 64.Rhd1
26 6 610k 0 64.Rhd1
27 10 744k 0 64.Rhd1
28 19 842k 0 64.Rhd1
29 26 386k 0 64.Rhd1
30 38 132k 0 64.Rhd1
31 39 670k 0 64.Rhd1
32 64 163k 0 64.Rhd1
33 86 183k 0 64.Rhd1
Code: Select all
Syzygy 6-man
1 4 7,18 64.Rxb4
2 25 6,19 64.Rxb4
3 56 9,9 64.Rxb4
4 245 5,23 64.Qb5
5 460 5,97 64.Qb5
6 1k 7,39 64.Re4
7 2k 5,99 64.Re4
8 4k 8,59 64.Re4
9 5k 8,67 64.Re4
10 33k 4,32 64.Rf1
11 41k 4,16 64.Rf1
12 67k 3,75 64.Rf1
13 74k 3,83 64.Rf1
14 269k 3,68 64.Rhd1
15 395k 3,61 64.Rhd1
16 630k 3,57 64.Rhd1
17 971k 3,53 64.Rf1
18 1 181k 3,93 64.Rf1
19 3 143k 2,01 64.Rhd1
20+ 4 409k 2,15 64.Qd8
20+ 4 427k 2,29 64.Qd8
20+ 4 449k 2,5 64.Qd8
20- 4 616k 1,87
20- 5 389k 1,41
20- 6 494k 0,72
------------------------------------------------------------------
20 8 748k 0 64.Rhd1
21 8 900k 0 64.Rhd1
22 9 541k 0 64.Rhd1
23 11 160k 0 64.Rhd1
24 12 037k 0 64.Rhd1
25 14 651k 0 64.Rhd1
26 15 372k 0 64.Rhd1
27 17 201k 0 64.Rhd1
28 18 667k 0 64.Rhd1
29 22 988k 0 64.Rhd1
30 28 018k 0 64.Rhd1
31 37 341k 0 64.Rhd1
32 73 334k 0 64.Rhd1
33 114 787k 0 64.Rhd1
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
Thanks. So Ethereal 12.00 without TBs finds (and sticks to) the draw at depth 19? Interesting.
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
Truly amazing, thanks for sharing! I think kingscrusher would love to make a video from this game.
PS: I can't believe the amount of negativity and pointless remarks you had to face just by sharing this game Not sure if it proves any comfort but I think you've dealt with the shitstorm very well and I was 100% on your side all the time.
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Re: Ethereal 12 (3400) loses to God! (Most Amazing Game I've Seen)
What do you regard as negativity and pointless remarks? Pointing out the fact of the game's blunders? How is that negativity? That's just fact. Do you think the actual moves and their evaluation are pointless? It's telling that all the oversensitive admirers of this game don't want to talk about actual chess moves in the game.