It would be interesting to know which of these 5 players have the lower centipawn score Capablanca, Alekhine, Kasparov, Fischer or Carlsen in standard time control. We all know that the time control used to be longer during Capablanca and Alekhine and that could give these two a much lower centipawn score than Kasparov and Carlsenlkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:10 amWell I'd like to believe I learned something from my mistakes and got better, but it's probably not due to repeating exact games up to some error and then varying. Komodo does have a handicap book, and even if it was not used in some games or didn't provide variety, just using MP produces significant variety. Also the knight removed alternated usually, and I vary my own opening play to make it more interesting. I also note that the Komodo error rate also dropped a lot with more games; perhaps the early games were pre-Dragon. There's also the time limit; my play at 15' + 10" is much better than my play at 3' + 2" for example. I also think I make more mistakes at two pawn odds than at knight odds.mwyoung wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:14 amI assumed the lower error rate is because you played many games, and learned from your mistakes. And I assume that Dragon does not have a opening book for odds games. And that is why I said you will know best how you won, lost, or drew the games.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:03 amKomodo 16 was just the bot on chess.com that is supposedly equal to Skill level 16, so this was normal chess against a weak engine. But the other games were the real Komodo on my threadripper, mostly at knight odds, a few at two pawns and move odds. My error rate being triple the Dragon sounds about right, although my 0.39 in fast rapid and slow blitz games is probably better than I would get in normal chess at those time limits, since it is around the error rates of the superstars in blitz play.mwyoung wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:42 pmLarry vs Komodo last 50 Odds games.mwyoung wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:07 pmI am running your last 50 games against PlayKomodo. As no one will better understand the games, and Komodo, and how you won, lost, or drew the games then the author himself. And all the games are Odds games. I have no clue what Komodo 16 is, or what that settings are for this version of Komodo. But there is only one game.lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:52 pmThat sounds about right. The difference between classical and blitz play is roughly like the handicap of playing a 30 board simul, and I would guess that 2380 FIDE would be about 50/50 with Carlsen playing 30 strong players at once.mwyoung wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:17 pmCarlsen's blitz error of 31 is equal to a 2380 Elo +/- 25 Elo classical rating.lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:05 amOne point to consider when looking at these average error numbers: Some portion of the average error is due to error by the analysis engine. I don't know the depth or time limit used for the analysis, but I imagine that it is a very short amount of time, so the engine error is not trivial. This doesn't much matter if we are just comparing one player to another, but to interpret the actual number, it does. For example, Fischer's average classic error is 0.20. On average, if the engine says 0.00 and Fischer's move is -0.20, then the truth is probably something like -.05, in between the two but much closer to the engine. So I think 0.05 is a good estimate of the amount to deduct from the averages to estimate the average "true" error. If so then the average "true" error in classic is 0.13 to 0.15 for Carlsen and Fischer, and 0.26 to 0.41 in blitz for same players, somewhat over double on average, which seems quite reasonable. Presumably Rapid (15' + 10") errors would be about halfway between these numbers. Based solely on this math even Carlsen would have no chance vs. top engine in blitz at knight odds and little chance even in Rapid (the errors would add up to way more than 400 cp for forty moves), but that's clearly wrong. Carlsen would just play safely to minimize the chance of big errors. Anyway it does appear that the errors are smaller with the top players now than fifty years ago, and that results and ratings do correlate with the errors reported. I suppose that if we knew what rating player averaged 0.31 error at classic time limit, we would be able to estimate the classic rating level of Carlsen's blitz play (for example).mwyoung wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:44 am I checked games of both Fischer and Carlsen at or near their peak. Playing both classical and blitz time controls.
Carlsen blitz results.Fischer blitz results.Code: Select all
Carlsen Magnus: 57/14/28/25/29/57/28/24/6/65/40/79/10/28/16/21/30/15/16/0 => Average=0.31Carlsen classic results.Code: Select all
Fischer Robert James: 86/101/31/32/44/37/23/24/33/79/48/31/38/50/67/30/17/76/19/11 => Average=0.46Fischer classic results.Code: Select all
Carlsen Magnus: 3/15/64/8/66/8/3/54/22/13/22/12/11/2/7/2/10/5/12/4 => Average=0.18GamesCode: Select all
31/29/14/29/86/9/10/18/12/5/16/9/12/15/12/20/15/12/19/3 => Average=0.20
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
But this could give you a better understanding of the numbers we are seeing. As the analysis we are using is meant for "cheat detection" in standard games. But is clearly has more potential.
Code: Select all
PlayKomodo: 32 => Average=0.32 hissha: 112 => Average=1.12 PlayKomodo: 32/9 => Average=0.23 hissha: 112/4 => Average=0.73 PlayKomodo: 32/23/9 => Average=0.23 hissha: 112/11/4 => Average=0.52 hissha: 112/89/11/4 => Average=0.63 PlayKomodo: 32/23/23/9 => Average=0.23 hissha: 112/89/11/38/4 => Average=0.58 PlayKomodo: 32/23/23/8/9 => Average=0.20 hissha: 112/89/80/11/38/4 => Average=0.62 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/23/8/9 => Average=0.18 hissha: 112/89/80/37/11/38/4 => Average=0.59 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/23/8/9 => Average=0.17 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/23/8/49/9 => Average=0.20 hissha: 112/89/80/37/11/38/15/4 => Average=0.54 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/23/8/19/49/9 => Average=0.20 hissha: 112/89/80/37/11/38/4/15/4 => Average=0.49 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/11/23/8/19/49/9 => Average=0.19 hissha: 112/89/80/38/37/11/38/4/15/4 => Average=0.48 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/31/11/23/8/19/49/9 => Average=0.20 hissha: 112/89/80/38/21/37/11/38/4/15/4 => Average=0.46 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/31/11/23/8/19/49/14/9 => Average=0.19 hissha: 112/89/80/38/21/37/11/38/4/15/4/4 => Average=0.43 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/31/11/23/8/19/49/14/12/9 => Average=0.19 hissha: 112/89/80/38/21/37/11/38/4/15/4/7/4 => Average=0.41 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/31/11/23/8/19/19/49/14/12/9 => Average=0.19 hissha: 112/89/80/38/21/37/11/38/11/4/15/4/7/4 => Average=0.39 PlayKomodo: 32/23/7/11/31/11/23/8/19/19/19/49/14/12/9 => Average=0.19 hissha: 112/89/80/38/21/37/11/38/9/11/4/15/4/7/4 => Average=0.37 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/7/11/31/11/23/8/19/19/19/49/14/12/9 => Average=0.20 hissha: 36/112/89/80/38/21/37/11/38/9/11/4/15/4/7/4 => Average=0.37 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/7/11/31/11/23/8/19/19/19/49/14/12/9/12 => Average=0.19 hissha: 36/112/89/80/38/21/37/11/38/9/11/4/15/4/7/4/7 => Average=0.35 hissha: 36/112/89/66/80/38/21/37/11/38/9/11/4/15/4/7/4/7 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/7/11/31/11/23/8/19/19/19/49/14/12/9/12 => Average=0.19 hissha: 36/112/89/66/80/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/4/15/4/7/4/7 => Average=0.37 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/7/11/31/11/23/5/8/19/19/19/49/14/12/9/12 => Average=0.18 hissha: 36/112/89/66/80/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/4/15/4/7/4/7/139 => Average=0.40 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/7/11/31/11/23/5/8/19/19/19/49/14/12/9/12/5 => Average=0.18 hissha: 36/112/89/66/80/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/86/4/15/4/7/4/7/139 => Average=0.42 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/7/11/31/11/23/5/8/19/19/8/19/49/14/12/9/12/5 => Average=0.17 hissha: 36/112/89/66/80/65/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/86/4/15/4/7/4/7/139 => Average=0.43 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/7/9/11/31/11/23/5/8/19/19/8/19/49/14/12/9/12/5 => Average=0.17 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/9/11/31/11/23/5/8/19/19/8/19/49/14/12/9/12/5 => Average=0.16 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/80/65/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/86/4/15/4/7/4/7/139 => Average=0.44 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/9/11/31/11/23/5/8/19/19/13/8/19/49/14/12/9/12/5 => Average=0.16 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/80/65/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/7/86/4/15/4/7/4/7/139 => Average=0.42 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/9/11/31/11/23/5/8/19/19/13/8/19/49/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.16 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/80/65/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/7/86/4/15/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.43 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/9/11/31/11/23/5/8/19/19/13/8/7/19/49/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.15 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/80/65/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/7/86/3/4/15/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.42 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/65/38/21/37/11/18/38/9/11/7/86/3/4/15/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.45 Komodo16: 55 => Average=0.55 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/9/11/31/11/8/23/5/8/19/19/13/8/7/19/49/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.15 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/65/38/21/37/16/11/18/38/9/11/7/86/3/4/15/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.44 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/9/11/31/11/8/23/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.15 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/65/38/21/37/16/11/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.42 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/11/31/11/8/23/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.15 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/38/21/37/16/11/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.41 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/11/31/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.15 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/38/21/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.40 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/11/31/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.15 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/38/21/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.39 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/11/6/31/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.15 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/38/14/21/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.39 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/11/6/15/31/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.15 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/38/14/10/21/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.38 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/38/14/10/21/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.39 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/11/6/15/31/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.14 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/11/6/15/7/31/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.14 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/38/14/10/54/21/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.39 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/11/6/15/7/31/24/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.14 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/38/14/10/54/21/19/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/11/6/10/15/7/31/24/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.14 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/38/14/4/10/54/21/19/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/11/6/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.14 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/38/14/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.37 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/38/14/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/16/11/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.37 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/11/6/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/11/1/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.14 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/14/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/16/11/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/1/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.14 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/1/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.13 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/14/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/16/11/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.39 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/11/1/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.13 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.39 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/13/11/1/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7 => Average=0.13 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/10/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/13/11/1/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7/6 => Average=0.13 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/10/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82/5 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/13/11/1/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7/0/6 => Average=0.13 hissha: 36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/10/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82/0/5 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 10/31/32/23/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/13/1/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7/0/6 => Average=0.13 hissha: 34/36/112/89/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/10/16/11/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82/0/5 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 10/31/32/23/6/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/13/11/1/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7/0/6 => Average=0.13 hissha: 34/36/112/89/50/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/10/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82/0/5 => Average=0.38 PlayKomodo: 10/31/32/23/6/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/13/1/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7/0/6 => Average=0.13 hissha: 34/36/112/89/50/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/61/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/10/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82/0/5 => Average=0.39 PlayKomodo: 10/31/32/23/6/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/13/1/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/18/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7/0/6 => Average=0.13 hissha: 34/36/112/89/50/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/61/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/10/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/32/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82/0/5 => Average=0.39 DoneCode: Select all
PlayKomodo: 10/31/32/23/6/8/5/7/21/9/3/6/11/6/6/13/10/15/17/7/31/24/11/8/23/13/1/11/5/8/19/19/13/12/18/8/7/19/49/11/14/5/12/9/12/5/7/0/6 => Average=0.13 hissha: 34/36/112/89/50/66/59/109/80/11/65/68/101/38/61/14/57/4/10/34/54/21/19/37/16/11/10/11/16/18/38/9/11/7/7/32/86/3/4/15/7/4/48/7/4/7/139/82/0/5 => Average=0.39 Komodo16: 55 => Average=0.55Games:Code: Select all
Live Chess Chess.com 2020 hissha 2267 - PlayKomodo 3400 19.0 - 30.0 +14/=10/-25 38.78% hissha 2267 - Komodo16 2146 0.0 - 1.0 +0/=0/-1 0.00%
But just based on your games. It suggest a 2700+ Elo Chess.com blitz rating is need to win against Komodo under the exact same conditions, and with Komodo 16 factored in the mix.
That is why I gave you the step analysis. As you started out with a 1.12 error rate. And after 50 games you were a .39.
You want to see why human can NOT compete vs engines in Bullet Games?
Moderators: hgm, Dann Corbit, Harvey Williamson
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Chessqueen
- Posts: 5495
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: You want to see why human can NOT compete vs engines in Bullet Games?
Forget about memorization of Opening Theories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN3381sdcdY
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M ANSARI
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:10 pm
Re: You want to see why human can NOT compete vs engines in Bullet Games?
It is very hard to compare the strength of humans against engines in bullet chess. I think even a 2400 engine would crush even the best bullet players easily especially if it is programmed to play fast and go for tactical positions. I mean Magnus Carlsen, easily the best chess player of all time and the only player I know who managed to adopt Firouza in bullet (win 10 games in a row) ... still managed to lose his queen in a completely drawn endgame against So in the Speed Chess semi finals. An engine is merciless with errors and time for an engine is easily managed and quality of play is consistent even when time trickles down to seconds. Humans simply can't do that and a Super GM can play horrendously bad in the last few seconds.
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M ANSARI
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:10 pm
Re: You want to see why human can NOT compete vs engines in Bullet Games?
By the way Lichess has Stockfish NN where you can choose to play against. I can quite often beat level 6 in bullet as it can play like 3400 ELO at times and then play one very poor move which will allow you to get a smother mate or a winning advantage ... especially if you make it to the endgame. But level 7 the best I have been able to do in bullet is draw as it seems to be programmed to overlook possible perpetuals and on rare occasions you might be able to get that. But playing those levels I have really learned to appreciate the strength of giving up a pawn for temporary activity. I mean of course you hear about that all the time and you see MC do that all the time, but I really learned to appreciate this much more after playing these levels and having them repeatedly "blunder" pawns and get tremendous compensation. Also the defensive resources available at times where the position is totally winning seems incredible and easily overlooked.
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Chessqueen
- Posts: 5495
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: You want to see why human can NOT compete vs engines in Bullet Games?
Can you beat Komodo Dragon with a Knight Odds on Blitz and if NOT Knight Plus pawn OddsM ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:58 am By the way Lichess has Stockfish NN where you can choose to play against. I can quite often beat level 6 in bullet as it can play like 3400 ELO at times and then play one very poor move which will allow you to get a smother mate or a winning advantage ... especially if you make it to the endgame. But level 7 the best I have been able to do in bullet is draw as it seems to be programmed to overlook possible perpetuals and on rare occasions you might be able to get that. But playing those levels I have really learned to appreciate the strength of giving up a pawn for temporary activity. I mean of course you hear about that all the time and you see MC do that all the time, but I really learned to appreciate this much more after playing these levels and having them repeatedly "blunder" pawns and get tremendous compensation. Also the defensive resources available at times where the position is totally winning seems incredible and easily overlooked.
Forget about memorization of Opening Theories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN3381sdcdY
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Alayan
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:48 pm
- Full name: Alayan Feh
Re: You want to see why human can NOT compete vs engines in Bullet Games?
The raw centipawn error of a player is not enough of an indication of playing strength by itself, because it doesn't account for the quality of the moves from the opponent and the resulting complexity.
I will get a much lower acpl against a 1000 elo player that I will crush than against a 2000 elo player that will crush me.
I will get a much lower acpl against a 1000 elo player that I will crush than against a 2000 elo player that will crush me.
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Chessqueen
- Posts: 5495
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: You want to see why human can NOT compete vs engines in Bullet Games?
That is the point if you take the free version of Komodo 12.1 and play without its Rook Plus Bishop the centipawn score will be much lower than if you simply remove one Bishop Plus pawn, another thing to take into consideration in the time control if you play with a time control of 30+5" your centipawn score will be better than Blitz at 3+1" > I believe that Carlsen or Nakamura do NOT play better at Bullet than a 2450 at 45+1" time controlAlayan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:53 pm The raw centipawn error of a player is not enough of an indication of playing strength by itself, because it doesn't account for the quality of the moves from the opponent and the resulting complexity.
I will get a much lower acpl against a 1000 elo player that I will crush than against a 2000 elo player that will crush me.
Forget about memorization of Opening Theories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN3381sdcdY
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M ANSARI
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:10 pm
Re: You want to see why human can NOT compete vs engines in Bullet Games?
I would never be interested in playing with odds as I think it is not chess but rather a variant of chess.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:32 amCan you beat Komodo Dragon with a Knight Odds on Blitz and if NOT Knight Plus pawn OddsM ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:58 am By the way Lichess has Stockfish NN where you can choose to play against. I can quite often beat level 6 in bullet as it can play like 3400 ELO at times and then play one very poor move which will allow you to get a smother mate or a winning advantage ... especially if you make it to the endgame. But level 7 the best I have been able to do in bullet is draw as it seems to be programmed to overlook possible perpetuals and on rare occasions you might be able to get that. But playing those levels I have really learned to appreciate the strength of giving up a pawn for temporary activity. I mean of course you hear about that all the time and you see MC do that all the time, but I really learned to appreciate this much more after playing these levels and having them repeatedly "blunder" pawns and get tremendous compensation. Also the defensive resources available at times where the position is totally winning seems incredible and easily overlooked.![]()