FCP Tourney-2022 ...

[carldaman]

Hi Jouni,

where is the contempt parameter for Stockfish?
Too many draws vs. clearly weaker engines.
Think so!

End of the weak I will switched to the current dev. version of Stockfish.
Updates are possible until Nov. 21st, 2021.

Best
Frank

The lack of proper contempt for SF-NNUE is a serious problem, because of all those draws against much weaker engines. This is why I hold the view that top engines should be tested more, and not less, against such weaker opposition. If that is done, then SF will rightly lose Elo and the developers will have to do something about it.

Let's face it, not winning enough against clearly weaker opponents should be reflected in the engine's Elo. That's what testing is all about - to show all the engines' true strength against a variety of opponents!

[Frank Quisinsky]

And much clones seems to be stronger as Stockfish is.
Same problem for the current dev. in the still running tourney.

A good chance for Komodo to be the new number 1 with longer time controls and contempt!!

For some years I test it out two times (SF with and without contempt) vs. much weaker engines.
- 19 Elo in test-1 after 1.500 games
- 17 Elo in test-2 after 1.500 games

Stockfish lost around 18 Elo without contempt in test-runs with more as 30 opponents.
Maybe the same today?!!

Fact ist, that Engines like Stockfish and Komodo lost a lot of Elo if we put more weaker opponents
in a test-run.

Can be see if we compare CEGT / CCRL Elo with FCP Tourney-2021, FCP Tourney-2020 and of course
with FCP Tourney-2022. With the Excel from Klaus we can deleted engines in the field of oppoents.
With that feature it should be more clear.

[Guenther]

And much clones seems to be stronger as Stockfish is.
...

??? Not a single one is known, except leaving statistics behind...
(so don't trust fake 'news')

[Frank Quisinsky]

If a clone programmer set an easy contempt parameter will be the clone directly 20 Elo stronger as the original.
Others wonder, why is the clone stronger as the original?
That's not a big secret!

You try it again and again with aggressive messages against my person.

I like the work you do and have fun with it.
Not important for me what you wrote, you got the "Tip" hint on my link selection.
Same I would like to do if you wrote here ... Quisinsky is an asshhole.

Over 10 persons asked me last year ...
Frank, why you gave a person like Günther Simon the TIP hint on your link selection.
I gave the answere, Günther made a good work and his opinion about my person isn't important for me.

Before I got the next messages with the same question!

[Frank Quisinsky]

Günther,

keep up your good work and hold your aggressive position against member "Quisinsky".
You will find here a lot of fans!!



Best
Frank

[Guenther]

If a clone programmer set an easy contempt parameter will be the clone directly 20 Elo stronger as the original.
Others wonder, why is the clone stronger as the original?
That's not a big secret!

You try it again and again with aggressive messages against my person.

I like the work you do and have fun with it.
Not important for me what you wrote, you got the "Tip" hint on my link selection.
Same I would like to do if you wrote here ... Quisinsky is an asshhole.

Over 10 persons asked me last year ...
Frank, why you gave a person like Günther Simon the TIP hint on your link selection.
I gave the answere, Günther made a good work and his opinion about my person isn't important for me.

Before I got the next messages with the same question!

There is no contempt anymore in SF since quite long, because nnue is more stable here and most cloners use the current nnue version nowadays.
There is not ONE single clone known, which produces better results than original SF (except using esoteric test conditions in non-statistical invalid tests).
Why this has anything to do with your person also escapes me, please don't develop some kind of paranoia?

If a clone programmer set an easy contempt parameter will be the clone directly 20 Elo stronger as the original.
Others wonder, why is the clone stronger as the original?
That's not a big secret!

The above quote is nonsense and completely unproven just imagined, otherwise you would have quoted a reliable source for it,
which doesn't exist. I really don't understand why you try to attack me and instead defend the cloners?
If you don't like SF just don't use it.

I have nothing aginst you, I just don't like untruth. Please remain straight with facts and not 'feelings'.

BTW I have no clue what you mean with the 'TIP' you mention?

[Frank Quisinsky]

Günther,

Günther again:
Big words for more attention.
"paranoia"

You need really a lot of attention Günther!
Thats the reason that I try to avoid contacts to people like you.

But the work on your website is very strong!
Keep up the good work (I can write a message without words like "paranoia").

Contempt have nothing to do with nn!

Best
Frank

PS: Thinking about your words if you like to discuss with me.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Back to my tourney:

1 Dragon 2.5.1 by Komodo NN AVX2 x64 (3170) 126.5 / 153 9190.50 82.68% 3441
2 Stockfish 151121 NN x64 (3170) 126.0 / 152 9156.25 82.89% 3444

Around the same as before:

1 Dragon 2.5.1 by Komodo NN AVX2 x64 (3170) 127.0 / 153 9240.50 83.01% 3445
2 Stockfish 14.1 NN AVX2 x64 (3170) 125.0 / 152 9140.75 82.24% 3436

And for Demolito:

41 Demolito 2021-07-09 x64 (3170) 41.0 / 152 2812.25 26.97% 2997

A bit better as before:

41 Demolito 2021-10-21 PEXT x64 (3170) 38.5 / 153 2588.25 25.16% 2981

Not enough games but my feeling is better if the tourney will be run more as two months.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Live Mode:

1. With Shredder 12 / 13 GUI possible (Feature: Public game, menue: Extras / Publish Game).
2. To load the current PGN files from 32 still running matches on three system on my webpage in live mode ... (game-01.pgn, game-02.pgn ... game-32.pgn) no problem with Fling 5.04 FTP client software. Fling software is very strong for such things!!
3. OK, I can load 32*. pgn files from all 32 still running matches. If any of the pgn files is changed with a new move, Fling load the file on my webpage automatically, no problem also.

---

The problem is:
If a game is over ...
Shredder 12 or 13 GUI open a "drop-down-box" with *.pgn header information and the tournament is stopped so long if I click on OK.

Of course, I am not sitting 24 hours on my PC.
With other words, such a tournament in live mode with Shredder GUI isn't possible.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi there,

I sent Stefan Meyer-Kahlen today a short mail with the "live-mode-problem".

At the moment Norman Schmidt is working on this page:
https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/index.html

Best
Frank