The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
Crystal solves in 30s 1 3 10 11 12 13 15. Note, that position 3 = position 18!
Jouni
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
Sorry, but I can't do anything with your stammering....Spliffjiffer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:41 pmthis is probably a draw and i cant see what Ba3 makes better than Nxa4 honestly... i think your specific problem might indicate that a sample of a problem might tell sth to us ...be not sure, investigate, be unclear, look deeper... and find nothing ...but dig deeper...i follow your samples since many, many...a lot of years... years and im still impressed...(30 yeras lets say).maybe..there is a tiny thing left...your positions.. they are good, but not completely well analysed...ill wanna say this to u ...good work, fantastic findouts, poor investigations....your not the guy who find outs sth...you are a man who can make sth stand but not being able to investigate a lot !!?...the positions that you were ale to allocate, i will not put in question, these are very good positiosns...but the researches...i put heavily in question....theses are poore but u say they are heavaly well done and time requestingly deducateted...i see this as an abuse of guys that take hours to make sth real in terms of computer-analysis...i honor u very much Walter, but your abilities to analyse a position tends to nothing, in my considerations...this position tells everything...can u make a workaround?...i heavily doubht...i give all honor since say 30 yerars but your abilties to determine a pos were not getting better
WHICH analyses exactly are wrong?
Position 2: First try an overnight analysis, then we'll talk further...
Chess in 'Glarean Magazin' (Ryzen7/16T)
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
Oh no! You're right!
I'll have to replace number 18 soon....
Many thanks: Walter
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Chess in 'Glarean Magazin' (Ryzen7/16T)
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
stammering,...yes, i know...u wanna say that im wimmering around...but my story is this: in pos 2 Ba3 is not better than Nxa4...no 24h...your turn..give sth...
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
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Until then, I assume that Carlsen's move is marginally superior.
No, I want to say that you stammered. And I recommend: think first, then formulate clearly.Spliffjiffer wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:48 amstammering,...yes, i know...u wanna say that im wimmering around...
My story is that you should first do a 10-hour Stockfish analysis here before you join the discussion on this position.Spliffjiffer wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:48 ambut my story is this: in pos 2 Ba3 is not better than Nxa4...no 24h...your turn..give sth...
Until then, I assume that Carlsen's move is marginally superior.
Chess in 'Glarean Magazin' (Ryzen7/16T)
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
thx for your story, help and that stammered stuff...youre a great man...and i idiot thought it were ardy difficult after say 30 sec
btw: pkenominal winningline that you are willing to provide...sry stumbering articulated
btw: pkenominal winningline that you are willing to provide...sry stumbering articulated
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
3 runs with 4 engines for the 19 positions :
- Crystal 3.2 x64 avx2
- ShashChess17.1-x86-avx2
- SugaR AI ICCF 2.40 avx2
- Stockfish_21091708_x64_avx2
Conditions :
Interface : Arena 3.5.1
CPU = 5950X@4GHz
16 threads per engine
15 minutes (900 seconds) per position
All 6 man EGTB + one 7-man KRPPKRP
65535 MB HT
See the tables of all results at the end.
Average per engine : the leader is Crystal 3.2 with 16.7 on 19.
Sort by number of times the solutions is found (on the 12 runs) :
All results :
The positions in EPD format :
- Crystal 3.2 x64 avx2
- ShashChess17.1-x86-avx2
- SugaR AI ICCF 2.40 avx2
- Stockfish_21091708_x64_avx2
Conditions :
Interface : Arena 3.5.1
CPU = 5950X@4GHz
16 threads per engine
15 minutes (900 seconds) per position
All 6 man EGTB + one 7-man KRPPKRP
65535 MB HT
See the tables of all results at the end.
Average per engine : the leader is Crystal 3.2 with 16.7 on 19.
Code: Select all
Cryst3.2 Shah17.1 Sug-2.40 SF-210917
#found 16,7 14,0 13,3 16,0
Avg time 142 119 119 142
Avg Time w/penalty 343 561 620 403
Code: Select all
Solutions #found
15) Nf4-g6 12
10) Nc5-e4 12
3) .. c7-c6 12
8) Ne3-f5 12
12) Rg5-g4 12
7) a5-a6 12
9) .. d6-d5 12
13) Rd8-d5 12
14) Kc1-b1 11
6) .. h7-h5 10
5) Nf3-g5 10
16) Kd6-e6 9
1) .. Qf7xf3 9
11) g4-g5 8
17) b3-b4 8
18) Bd4-e5 7
19) Re1-c1 7
2) Bb2-a3 5
4) Ra3xc3 0
Code: Select all
Solution CrystCrystCryst ShashShashShash SugaRSugaRSugaR StockStockStock #found Avg time
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1) .. Qf7xf3 101 16 540 372 266 217 50 34 51 9 183,0
2) Bb2-a3 2 788 138 60 160 5 229,6
3) .. c7-c6 0 17 0 3 8 8 56 22 131 62 99 37 12 36,9
4) Ra3xc3 0 -----
5) Nf3-g5 685 560 336 719 122 44 45 7 10 20 10 254,8
6) .. h7-h5 14 22 7 3 208 50 118 21 50 3 10 49,6
7) a5-a6 53 44 45 22 5 2 78 10 154 164 173 298 12 87,3
8) Ne3-f5 7 3 43 57 4 21 43 3 24 11 270 4 12 40,8
9) .. d6-d5 32 99 80 35 59 13 67 145 251 91 159 91 12 93,5
10) Nc5-e4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 35 12 386 12 36,1
11) g4-g5 0 0 12 3 46 397 11 732 8 150,1
12) Rg5-g4 16 141 89 1 0 0 161 290 42 1 2 1 12 62,0
13) Rd8-d5 1 1 0 0 0 7 3 5 0 835 486 538 12 156,3
14) Kc1-b1 109 43 324 244 47 242 102 77 9 0 0 11 108,8
15) Nf4-g6 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 110 31 152 12 25,1
16) Kd6-e6 6 0 120 0 50 0 188 117 100 9 64,6
17) b3-b4 8 754 778 780 0 0 0 0 8 290,0
18) Bd4-e5 367 74 57 201 829 278 273 7 297,0
19) Re1-c1 4 641 717 776 557 504 566 7 537,9
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Avg time 78 151 196 142 128 86 107 87 163 150 105 172 12 130,3
Avg Time w/penalty 169 411 449 578 568 537 552 628 680 410 284 514 481,8
#found 18 16 16 14 14 14 14 13 13 16 17 15 180 15,0
#not found 1 3 3 5 5 5 5 6 6 3 2 4 4,0
Code: Select all
1rb1r3/5qk1/3b2p1/1PnPp1Pp/4B3/pP3Q2/P2N1B1P/1KR3R1 b - - bm Qxf3 ;
r2q1rk1/1p2p1bp/2np2p1/2n2b2/p1P5/1PN1QN1P/PB2BPP1/3R1RK1 w - - bm Ba3 ;
8/1pp1p3/6p1/3P4/pP3P2/8/k1K3P1/8 b - - bm c6 ;
7k/pp1pBp1N/1p3Pp1/b3K1PR/P3P2p/R1n4P/2P1N1P1/3q4 w - - bm Rxc3;
r1bqr1k1/pp1nb1p1/2n3P1/3pPp1p/1p1P3P/P4N2/3N1P2/RBBQK2R w KQ - bm Ng5 ;
4r3/4b2p/1pk2pb1/p1p5/P2pNB2/1P3P2/2P2KPP/3R4 b - - bm h5;
7k/1p5p/2qpn1PP/Pp1p4/8/3B2p1/3B1pP1/R4K2 w - - bm a6 ;
3kB3/5K2/7p/3p4/3pn3/4NN2/8/1b4B1 w - - bm Nf5 ;
r2qr1k1/1ppb1pp1/p2p1bnp/P7/2NPP3/1B3P2/1P4PP/R1BQ1RK1 b - - bm d5;
1q6/4p3/6Q1/2N1n3/p2P2P1/P2PP1k1/4Kp1p/2B5 w - - bm Ne4+ ;
3r1r2/pb2nkp1/1pnb1p1p/2pNpP2/q1P1P1PP/3P1N2/P3BR2/3RQ1BK w - - bm g5 ;
8/qp1N1bn1/3p4/Bn1p2R1/3pp2k/6R1/1pp1KP2/8 w - - bm R5g4+ ;
3R4/4K1b1/8/N1n1k3/n1R1pp2/2P3P1/2N1p1P1/q7 w - - bm Rd5+ ;
2k1rb2/2q2pBr/p2p1PpP/1pnP2P1/5Q2/P7/1PP5/2KR1B2 w - - bm Kb1 ;
4r1nk/2p1q2p/8/3Q2PP/2P1pN2/8/5R2/5K2 w - - bm Ng6+ ;
8/bp4Pk/3K1B2/R6p/2pNp1P1/p7/3p1Pn1/2r4q w - - bm Ke6 ;
4r3/2kbr1p1/2p2p2/p2p1P2/P2B2Pp/KP2P2P/8/1RR5 w - - bm b4 ;
6k1/2p2p1p/4pP2/8/1pPB1P1P/7p/1KP1R3/7r w - - bm Be5;
r1n5/k3pp2/2Rr4/1p6/1p6/p4pp1/QP4Pn/4RBK1 w - - bm Rec1 ;
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- Full name: Walter Eigenmann
Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
Thanks for the tests and the result reports!Vinvin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:49 am 3 runs with 4 engines for the 19 positions :
- Crystal 3.2 x64 avx2
- ShashChess17.1-x86-avx2
- SugaR AI ICCF 2.40 avx2
- Stockfish_21091708_x64_avx2
Conditions :
Interface : Arena 3.5.1
CPU = 5950X@4GHz
16 threads per engine
15 minutes (900 seconds) per position
All 6 man EGTB + one 7-man KRPPKRP
65535 MB HT
Addition: No. 18 has since been replaced by a study by Illescas.
Chess in 'Glarean Magazin' (Ryzen7/16T)
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
There's a problem with position#3 : 8/1pp1p3/6p1/3P4/pP3P2/8/k1K3P1/8 b - - bm c6 ;
Engines can choose randomly between 1…c6! and 1…Ka3? because it's difficult to see Ka3 is losing.
A lot of engines gives 0.00 to both moves.
Engines can choose randomly between 1…c6! and 1…Ka3? because it's difficult to see Ka3 is losing.
A lot of engines gives 0.00 to both moves.
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Re: The ENGINES CRACKERS 2 (Update)
You're right as for using the position in automatically evaluated single best move suites.
To be sure, if it's not solved "for wrong reasons" (in this case accidentally), evaluating 1.Ka3? wrongly 0.00 too, you'd have to let run engine in MultiPV=2 mode or give in 1...Ka3 and look at output. As long as 2.g4! isn't found, 0.00 get's stuck rather long as for my trials with most fishes. Best for long while is often
1) 1...c6... 0.00
2) 1...Ka3 2.g4...0.03, which I wouldn't call "solved" neither
Crystal 280821 at 32 threads:
[fen]8/1pp1p3/6p1/3P4/pP3P2/8/k1K3P1/8 b - -[/fen]
Code: Select all
NNUE evaluation using nn-33495fe25081.nnue enabled
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26 0:01 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (68.955.342) 44660
26 0:01 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (68.955.342) 44660
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27 0:02 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (97.804.362) 43643
27 0:02 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (97.804.362) 43643
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28 0:03 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (134.291.597) 42137
28 0:03 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (134.291.597) 42137
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29 0:04 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (185.063.012) 40283
28 0:04 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (185.063.012) 40283
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29 0:05 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (207.409.634) 40604
29 0:05 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (207.409.634) 40604
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30 0:07 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (303.699.992) 40342
29 0:07 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (303.699.992) 40342
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30 0:07 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (304.926.142) 40344
30 0:07 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (304.926.142) 40344
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31 0:09 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (400.808.853) 41058
30 0:09 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (400.808.853) 41058
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31 0:10 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (450.397.210) 41038
31 0:10 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (450.397.210) 41038
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32 0:14 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (569.667.224) 40496
31 0:14 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (569.667.224) 40496
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32 0:15 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (628.935.480) 40537
32 0:15 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (628.935.480) 40537
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33 0:28 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (1.092.943.496) 37992
32 0:28 0.00 1...Ka3 2.Kc3 c6 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.g3 Ka2 5.Kc2 Ka3 (1.092.943.496) 37992
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33 4:21 0.00 1...c6 2.dxc6 bxc6 3.g3 Ka3 4.Kc3 Ka2 (10.430.105.514) 39856
33 4:21 +13.67 1...Ka3 2.g4 (10.430.105.514) 39856
Bester Zug: c7-c6 Zeit: 4:21.688 min K/s: 39.856.569 Knoten: 10.430.105.514
Peter.