Finally official Lc0 v0.31.0-rc1

[Hai]

What network should I use on an i7, 13 gen, desktop with 32 GB RAM?

BT4.
I'm using it also on my MacBook.

[chesskobra]

On this link https://lczero.org/dev/wiki/best-nets-for-lc0/ there is a BT4 network BT4-1024x15x32h-swa-6147500 - is this what you recommend? The link says it is for GPU. But if I am not mistaken my i7 13 gen (Dell XPS 8960) has only CPU. So is it still a good network?

[Dann Corbit]

Lc0 is lame without a GPU.
I would not bother.

[Dann Corbit]

<snip>

Here are the results for the new Lc0 (which was notoriously poor at tactics):

<snip>

Many thanks.

So, what is the comparison to the old Lc0? In your own words.

This is the result for Lc0-v0.30.0
I used network :
C:\Users\dannc\chess\lc0\v0.30.0\t2-768x15x24h-swa-5230000.pb.gz
10/13/2023 09:01 AM 168,247,318 t2-768x15x24h-swa-5230000.pb.gz
bottom line: 73 of 120 matching moves

Code: Select all

Analysis of H:\hardest.epd   
Analyzing engine: Lc0-v0.30.0
3/27/2024 4:07:27 AM Level: 60 Seconds
   Source                    : List of EPD/PGN files
      H:\hardest.epd
   Colours                   : White moves=True, Black moves=True
   Direction                 : forward
   Games (PGN)               : From 1 to 999999
   Moves                     : All moves
   Positions (EPD)           : All positions
   Use Engine(s)             : List
      Lc0-v0.30.0
      Stockfish_24032617_x64_avx2
   Use seconds per move      : 60 Seconds per move
   Analysis Lines            : Minimum search depth=2
   Activate abort analysis   : True. Minimal analysis depth 9. Abort, if the correct move is held 220 additional ply
  1) g5-g6              Kb1-b2   
  2) b5-b6              Be2-f1   
  3) Kb8-a7             Kb8-a7  * 0 Seconds
  4) .. Rc5-c2          Kg7-g6   
  5) .. Nc5-d7          Nc5-d7  * 18 Seconds
  6) Qa3-f3             Nc5-d3   
  7) Re1-e4             Re1-e4  * 0 Seconds
  8) a6-a7              a6-a7   * 11 Seconds
  9) Bc1-b2             Bc1-b2  * 3 Seconds
 10) Ne1-d3, Ne1-f3     Ne1-f3  * 0 Seconds
 11) Ra4-a8             h7-h8Q   
 12) Be3-c1             Kd7-e6   
 13) Rd1-b1             Rd1-d3   
 14) h6-h7              c6-c7    
 15) .. e5-e4           e5-e4   * 8 Seconds
 16) Qa5xd5             Qa5xd5  * 1 Second
 17) Qc8xh8             Qc8xh8  * 5 Seconds
 18) .. Bf8-e7          Bf8-e7  * 7 Seconds
 19) .. Bb6xd4          Qf6xh4   
 20) .. Qc5-d4          Qc5-c4   
 21) .. Be2-h5          Be2-h5  * 57 Seconds
 22) Rd6-d8             Rd6-d8  * 20 Seconds
 23) Qg6-f5             Qg6-f7   
 24) Rc4-c7             Rc4-c7  * 17 Seconds
 25) Rg3-g5             Rg3-g5  * 19 Seconds
 26) Nd4-f5             Qe2-h5   
 27) Re3-c3             Re3-c3  * 30 Seconds
 28) f2-f4              f2-f4   * 0 Seconds
 29) Bc8xa6             Bc8xa6  * 3 Seconds
 30) Bc8xa6             d2-d4    
 31) Kc8-c7             Qd2-d8   
 32) Ne7-g6             Ne7-g6  * 0 Seconds
 33) Kc8-d7, Kc8-d8     Kc8-d7  * 0 Seconds
 34) Nc8-e7             Nc8-d6   
 35) Nc8-e7             Qe3-d4   
 36) Rc8-a8             Rc8-a8  * 0 Seconds
 37) b2-b3              b2-b3   * 33 Seconds
 38) Be1-h4             Be1-h4  * 8 Seconds
 39) Bb6-a7             Bb6-a7  * 0 Seconds
 40) d6-d7              d6-d7   * 0 Seconds
 41) Qa7xc7             Qa7-c5   
 42) Ne4-d6             Ne4-d6  * 3 Seconds
 43) Ng6-h4             Rg3xg4   
 44) Rg8-h8             g3-g4    
 45) Bd4xg7             Bd4xg7  * 1 Second
 46) Kd5-e6             Qd4-f2   
 47) Kg4-f3             Kg4-f3  * 1 Second
 48) Qh5xg6             Bh4-f6   
 49) Rc4xc5             Rc4xc5  * 5 Seconds
 50) .. h7-h5           h7-h5   * 43 Seconds
 51) Nd4-f3             Rg6xa6   
 52) .. Bb7-f3          Bb7-f3  * 6 Seconds
 53) Rf1-f5             Rf1-f5  * 0 Seconds
 54) e7-e8Q, e7-e8R     e7-e8Q  * 46 Seconds
 55) Be5-b8             Be5-d4   
 56) g4-g5              g4-g5   * 3 Seconds
 57) Ra5-a6             Nd5-c3   
 58) Ke2-f3, Bc2-b1     Ke2-f3  * 14 Seconds
 59) a3-a4              h4-h5    
 60) Be4-d5             Be4-d5  * 0 Seconds
 61) .. Rd8-d6, b7-b6   Rd8-d6  * 2 Seconds
 62) Rd2-d3             Rd2-d3  * 56 Seconds
 63) Qc4xb5             Qc4xb5  * 3 Seconds
 64) Bb7-c6             Nd1-b2   
 65) Rf2-f1             Rf2-f1  * 7 Seconds
 66) Be4-h1             Be4-f3   
 67) Nh4xg6             Nh4xg6  * 0 Seconds
 68) .. Ng2xe3, Nd5xe3  Ng2xe3  * 0 Seconds
 69) c4xd5              c4-c5    
 70) h6-h7              Qh3-c3   
 71) Nf4-h3             Nf4xg2   
 72) c3-c4              Kh1-g1   
 73) Bg2xb7             Qc4-h4   
 74) Qc7-f4             Qc7xc5   
 75) .. h6-h5           Ne3xg2   
 76) Qb1-b6             Qb1-c1   
 77) Nc4-e5             Nc4xb6   
 78) Kf8-e7, Kf8-e8     Kf8-e7  * 1 Second
 79) Rg8-h8             Rg8-h8  * 16 Seconds
 80) Rf6-h6             Rf6-f7   
 81) Rg6-g4             Nf8-e6   
 82) Rb3-c3             Be2xb5   
 83) Rh4-a4             Rh4-a4  * 0 Seconds
 84) Nb5-d4             Nb5-d4  * 12 Seconds
 85) c2-c3              c2-c3   * 22 Seconds
 86) Qg3-g8             Qg3-g8  * 0 Seconds
 87) Kh4-g5             Kh4-g5  * 3 Seconds
 88) .. Qd1-e1          Qd1-e1  * 4 Seconds
 89) Bc1-b2             Bc1-b2  * 0 Seconds
 90) .. Rg5xg2, Ne1xg2  Rg5xg2  * 0 Seconds
 91) Qc5xf8             Qc5xf8  * 0 Seconds
 92) Qf1-g1             Qf1-g1  * 12 Seconds
 93) Bb7-d5             Na7-b5   
 94) Qe4-e5, Qe4-c6, Qe4-b7, Kg2-g1  Kg2-g1  * 4 Seconds
 95) Nc7-a8             Nc7-e8   
 96) Ne2-g1             Ne2-g1  * 48 Seconds
 97) Bc1-d2             Bc1-d2  * 39 Seconds
 98) b2-b3              Nd5-f6   
 99) Nh4-g6             Nh4-g6  * 0 Seconds
100) .. Kh8-h7, Kh8-g7  Kh8-h7  * 2 Seconds
101) Bg3-f4             Bg3-f4  * 20 Seconds
102) .. Rc1-d1          Rc1-d1  * 0 Seconds
103) Bf4-h6             Bf4-h6  * 20 Seconds
104) e5-e6              e5xf6    
105) Ke5-e6, Ke5-f6     Ke5-e6  * 25 Seconds
106) .. Nb5xd4          Nb5xd4  * 46 Seconds
107) Re3xd3             Re3xd3  * 8 Seconds
108) Be2-c4             Be2-c4  * 3 Seconds
109) Ne3-f1             Ne3-f5   
110) .. Rg7-h7          Rg7-h7  * 0 Seconds
111) Na3-c2             Na3-c2  * 23 Seconds
112) Ke6-f7             Be7-f6   
113) Qh2-h6             Qh2-h6  * 0 Seconds
114) Rg7-h7             Rg7-d7   
115) Bf2-g1             Bf2-g1  * 2 Seconds
116) g2-g3              g2-g3   * 0 Seconds
117) Ba7-b8             Ba7-b8  * 3 Seconds
118) Bc4-g8             Bc4-g8  * 2 Seconds
119) Rc6-c8             e6xf7    
120) .. Nf6xh5          Nf6xh5  * 18 Seconds
73 of 120 matching moves
3/27/2024 6:09:28 AM, Total time: 2:02:01 AM Rated time: 59:43 = 3583 Seconds

Just for fun, here is the bleeding edge Stockfish, which gets 94 of 120 matching moves:

Code: Select all

Analysis of H:\hardest.epd   
Analyzing engine: Stockfish_24032617_x64_avx2
3/27/2024 7:08:42 AM Level: 60 Seconds
   Source                    : List of EPD/PGN files
      H:\hardest.epd
   Colours                   : White moves=True, Black moves=True
   Direction                 : forward
   Games (PGN)               : From 1 to 999999
   Moves                     : All moves
   Positions (EPD)           : All positions
   Use Engine(s)             : List
      Stockfish_24032617_x64_avx2
   Use seconds per move      : 60 Seconds per move
   Analysis Lines            : Minimum search depth=2
   Activate abort analysis   : True. Minimal analysis depth 9. Abort, if the correct move is held 220 additional ply
  1) g5-g6              Kb1-b2   
  2) b5-b6              b5-b6   * 4 Seconds
  3) Kb8-a7             Kb8-a7  * 0 Seconds
  4) .. Rc5-c2          Rc5-c2  * 3 Seconds
  5) .. Nc5-d7          Nc5-d7  * 0 Seconds
  6) Qa3-f3             Qa3-f3  * 41 Seconds
  7) Re1-e4             Nf4-e2   
  8) a6-a7              a6-a7   * 0 Seconds
  9) Bc1-b2             Bc1-b2  * 0 Seconds
 10) Ne1-d3, Ne1-f3     Ne1-d3  * 0 Seconds
 11) Ra4-a8             Ra4-a8  * 0 Seconds
 12) Be3-c1             Be3-c1  * 0 Seconds
 13) Rd1-b1             Rd1-b1  * 0 Seconds
 14) h6-h7              h6-h7   * 0 Seconds
 15) .. e5-e4           e5-e4   * 1 Second
 16) Qa5xd5             Qa5xd5  * 0 Seconds
 17) Qc8xh8             Qc8xh8  * 0 Seconds
 18) .. Bf8-e7          Qb8-c7   
 19) .. Bb6xd4          Bb6xd4  * 0 Seconds
 20) .. Qc5-d4          Qc5-d4  * 0 Seconds
 21) .. Be2-h5          Be2-h5  * 0 Seconds
 22) Rd6-d8             Rd6-d8  * 0 Seconds
 23) Qg6-f5             Qg6-f5  * 5 Seconds
 24) Rc4-c7             Rc4-c7  * 4 Seconds
 25) Rg3-g5             Rg3-g5  * 0 Seconds
 26) Nd4-f5             Nd4-f5  * 0 Seconds
 27) Re3-c3             Nh4-f5   
 28) f2-f4              f2-f4   * 0 Seconds
 29) Bc8xa6             Bc8-g4   
 30) Bc8xa6             d2-d4    
 31) Kc8-c7             Nf4-d3   
 32) Ne7-g6             Ne7-g6  * 2 Seconds
 33) Kc8-d7, Kc8-d8     Kc8xc7   
 34) Nc8-e7             Nc8-d6   
 35) Nc8-e7             Nc8-e7  * 3 Seconds
 36) Rc8-a8             Rc8-a8  * 0 Seconds
 37) b2-b3              b2-b3   * 56 Seconds
 38) Be1-h4             Be1-g3   
 39) Bb6-a7             Bb6-a7  * 0 Seconds
 40) d6-d7              d6-d7   * 0 Seconds
 41) Qa7xc7             Qa7-d4   
 42) Ne4-d6             Ne4-d6  * 0 Seconds
 43) Ng6-h4             Ng6-h4  * 6 Seconds
 44) Rg8-h8             Rg8-h8  * 2 Seconds
 45) Bd4xg7             Bd4xg7  * 6 Seconds
 46) Kd5-e6             Qd4-f2   
 47) Kg4-f3             Kg4-f3  * 0 Seconds
 48) Qh5xg6             Bh4-f6   
 49) Rc4xc5             Rc4xc5  * 0 Seconds
 50) .. h7-h5           h7-h5   * 0 Seconds
 51) Nd4-f3             Nd4-f3  * 5 Seconds
 52) .. Bb7-f3          Bb7-f3  * 0 Seconds
 53) Rf1-f5             Rf1-f5  * 0 Seconds
 54) e7-e8Q, e7-e8R     e7-e8Q  * 5 Seconds
 55) Be5-b8             Be5-b8  * 18 Seconds
 56) g4-g5              Rd8-a8   
 57) Ra5-a6             Ra5-a6  * 0 Seconds
 58) Ke2-f3, Bc2-b1     Ke2-f3  * 0 Seconds
 59) a3-a4              a3-a4   * 5 Seconds
 60) Be4-d5             Be4-d5  * 0 Seconds
 61) .. Rd8-d6, b7-b6   Rd8-d6  * 0 Seconds
 62) Rd2-d3             Rd2-d3  * 1 Second
 63) Qc4xb5             Qc4xb5  * 57 Seconds
 64) Bb7-c6             Nd1-b2   
 65) Rf2-f1             Rf2-f1  * 18 Seconds
 66) Be4-h1             Be4-f3   
 67) Nh4xg6             Nc5-d3   
 68) .. Ng2xe3, Nd5xe3  Nd5xe3  * 0 Seconds
 69) c4xd5              c4xd5   * 3 Seconds
 70) h6-h7              h6-h7   * 7 Seconds
 71) Nf4-h3             Nf4-h3  * 22 Seconds
 72) c3-c4              c3-c4   * 1 Second
 73) Bg2xb7             Bg2xb7  * 3 Seconds
 74) Qc7-f4             Qc7xc5   
 75) .. h6-h5           h6-h5   * 0 Seconds
 76) Qb1-b6             Qb1-b6  * 3 Seconds
 77) Nc4-e5             Nc4-e5  * 0 Seconds
 78) Kf8-e7, Kf8-e8     Kf8-e7  * 0 Seconds
 79) Rg8-h8             Rg8-h8  * 1 Second
 80) Rf6-h6             Rf6-f7   
 81) Rg6-g4             Nf8-e6   
 82) Rb3-c3             Rb3-c3  * 20 Seconds
 83) Rh4-a4             Rh4-a4  * 8 Seconds
 84) Nb5-d4             Nb5-d4  * 0 Seconds
 85) c2-c3              c2-c3   * 1 Second
 86) Qg3-g8             Qg3-g8  * 0 Seconds
 87) Kh4-g5             Kh4-g5  * 1 Second
 88) .. Qd1-e1          Qd1-e1  * 0 Seconds
 89) Bc1-b2             Kd1-d2   
 90) .. Rg5xg2, Ne1xg2  Rg5xg2  * 18 Seconds
 91) Qc5xf8             Qc5xf8  * 0 Seconds
 92) Qf1-g1             Qf1-g1  * 0 Seconds
 93) Bb7-d5             Bb7-d5  * 5 Seconds
 94) Qe4-e5, Qe4-c6, Qe4-b7, Kg2-g1  Kg2-g1  * 0 Seconds
 95) Nc7-a8             Nc7-a8  * 57 Seconds
 96) Ne2-g1             Ne2-g1  * 3 Seconds
 97) Bc1-d2             Bc1-d2  * 0 Seconds
 98) b2-b3              Nd5-f6   
 99) Nh4-g6             Nh4-f5   
100) .. Kh8-h7, Kh8-g7  Kh8-h7  * 0 Seconds
101) Bg3-f4             Bg3-f4  * 0 Seconds
102) .. Rc1-d1          Rc1-d1  * 0 Seconds
103) Bf4-h6             Bf4-h6  * 0 Seconds
104) e5-e6              e5-e6   * 5 Seconds
105) Ke5-e6, Ke5-f6     Ke5-e6  * 0 Seconds
106) .. Nb5xd4          Nb5xd4  * 12 Seconds
107) Re3xd3             Re3xd3  * 1 Second
108) Be2-c4             Be2-c4  * 0 Seconds
109) Ne3-f1             Ne3-f1  * 7 Seconds
110) .. Rg7-h7          Rg7-h7  * 0 Seconds
111) Na3-c2             Bh4-g5   
112) Ke6-f7             Be7-f6   
113) Qh2-h6             Qh2-h6  * 0 Seconds
114) Rg7-h7             Rg7-h7  * 0 Seconds
115) Bf2-g1             Bf2-g1  * 3 Seconds
116) g2-g3              Nb5-c7   
117) Ba7-b8             Ba7-b8  * 25 Seconds
118) Bc4-g8             Bc4-g8  * 0 Seconds
119) Rc6-c8             Rc6-c8  * 5 Seconds
120) .. Nf6xh5          Nf6xh5  * 0 Seconds
94 of 120 matching moves
3/27/2024 9:09:03 AM, Total time: 2:00:20 AM Rated time: 33:33 = 2013 Seconds

[Dann Corbit]

With the mega net, Lc0 outperforms SF on this test (of course we cannot read a ton into that, since I have two fast GPU cards in my machine and an AMD 3790x CPU, so my hardware is not typical.)

I will say this, I never thought that Lc0 would outshine SF on a tactical test. This new version is much better and the new net is much better too.

It is possible parameter changes account for some of it. I used some of the parameters that the Tcec version of Lc0 is using (but obviously not the memory, since my GPUs only have 8GB video ram each.)

I was not able to use some of their settings, since they did not work when I tried them. Probably because they are using a zillion dollar GPU with an ocean of video RAM.

[Dann Corbit]

With the mega net, Lc0 outperforms SF on this test (of course we cannot read a ton into that, since I have two fast GPU cards in my machine and an AMD 3790x CPU, so my hardware is not typical.)

I will say this, I never thought that Lc0 would outshine SF on a tactical test. This new version is much better and the new net is much better too.

It is possible parameter changes account for some of it. I used some of the parameters that the Tcec version of Lc0 is using (but obviously not the memory, since my GPUs only have 8GB video ram each.)

I was not able to use some of their settings, since they did not work when I tried them. Probably because they are using a zillion dollar GPU with an ocean of video RAM.

Please write what settings you are writing about that you could not use.

I got the settings I wanted to try from here:
https://lczero.org/watch/competitions/tcec/

Backend and backendOptions did not work.
I also did not use the value for RamLimitMB because my my GPUs only have 8GB VRAM so I set it at 7.5 GB. If it is system RAM, then I would have set it much higher.

Is there anywhere to obtain an accurate description of each setting and what they mean?
If the answer is "browse the source" then I won't bother.
I tried reading the source to find some simple information about evaluation hashing and gave up.
https://ibb.co/YfbZNYs

[Werewolf]

What network should I use on an i7, 13 gen, desktop with 32 GB RAM?

BT4.
I'm using it also on my MacBook.

And how many nps does that get..?

[Carbo]

I got the settings I wanted to try from here:
https://lczero.org/watch/competitions/tcec/

Backend and backendOptions did not work.
I also did not use the value for RamLimitMB because my my GPUs only have 8GB VRAM so I set it at 7.5 GB. If it is system RAM, then I would have set it much higher.

Is there anywhere to obtain an accurate description of each setting and what they mean?
If the answer is "browse the source" then I won't bother.
I tried reading the source to find some simple information about evaluation hashing and gave up.
https://ibb.co/YfbZNYs

Maybe this helps?

.\lc0.exe --help

Code: Select all

       --ramlimit-mb=0..100000000
               Maximum memory usage for the engine, in megabytes. The estimation is very rough,
               and can be off by a lot. For example, multiple visits to a terminal node counted
               several times, and the estimation assumes that all positions have 30 possible
               moves. When set to 0, no RAM limit is enforced.
               [UCI: RamLimitMb  DEFAULT: 0  MIN: 0  MAX: 100000000]

This is from lc0-v0.30.0-cuda, I don't have v31 installed, but should work the same.

[Werewolf]

looks like the latest lc0 build has a few nasty bugs on 40xx cards. Hopefully there will be a fix soon.

[Jouni]

Hint. By renaming exe to lc0simple.exe You get rid of zillion uci parameters .

Code: Select all

       _
|   _ | |
|_ |_ |_| v0.31.0-rc1 built Mar 25 2024
uci
id name Lc0 v0.31.0-rc1
id author The LCZero Authors.
option name WeightsFile type string default <autodiscover>
option name Threads type spin default 0 min 0 max 128
option name MultiPV type spin default 1 min 1 max 500
option name Contempt type string default
option name SyzygyPath type string default
option name Ponder type check default true
option name UCI_Chess960 type check default false
option name UCI_ShowWDL type check default false
option name UCI_ShowMovesLeft type check default false
option name RamLimitMb type spin default 0 min 0 max 100000000
option name MoveOverheadMs type spin default 200 min 0 max 100000000
option name Slowmover type string default 1.000000
option name ValueOnly type check default false
option name LogFile type string default
uciok