Grob is draw?
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Jouni
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm
Re: Grob is draw?
https://www.chessdb.cn/queryc_en/ has now 1.g4 with -204 evaluation. Should be loss. But but - after playing 10 first moves it's only -159. These moves: 1. g4 d5 2. e3 Nc6 3. d4 e5 4. Nc3 Be6 5. dxe5 Nxe5 6. h3 h5 7. Nf3 Nxf3+ 8. Qxf3 hxg4 9. hxg4 Bxg4 10. Qg2 Rxh1. Why?
Jouni
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Eelco de Groot
- Posts: 4609
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
- Full name:
Re: Grob is draw?
I don't know how they compute those scores, does not have to be comparable with Stockfish output. For instance after your line, neither side has made any more mistakes, apart from the first move I think? So if -204 only reflects how bad that move is in comparison with standard openings, maybe it goes up if White does play optimally further on. I have no idea.Jouni wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 9:11 pm https://www.chessdb.cn/queryc_en/ has now 1.g4 with -204 evaluation. Should be loss. But but - after playing 10 first moves it's only -159. These moves: 1. g4 d5 2. e3 Nc6 3. d4 e5 4. Nc3 Be6 5. dxe5 Nxe5 6. h3 h5 7. Nf3 Nxf3+ 8. Qxf3 hxg4 9. hxg4 Bxg4 10. Qg2 Rxh1. Why?
I get this in your line after a while, with one of Eduard's Stockfish variants:
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2024.10.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
1. g4 d5 2. e3 Nc6 3. d4 e5 4. Nc3 Be6 5. dxe5 Nxe5 6. h3
h5 7. Nf3 Nxf3+ 8. Qxf3 hxg4 9. hxg4 Bxg4 10. Qg2 Rxh1
11. Qxh1 Nf6 12. Bd2 Qd6 *
[/pgn]
[d]r3kb2/ppp2pp1/3q1n2/3p4/6b1/2N1P3/PPPB1P2/R3KB1Q w Qq -
Engine: Deep Ripper -1- (1024 MB)
gemaakt door EN and Stockfish developers (see AUTHORs
54 279:43 -1.54 13.Pb5 Db6 14.f3 a6 15.Pc3 Lf5
16.O-O-O O-O-O 17.Kb1 Te8 18.Lc1 Lb4
19.Pe2 Kb8 20.Pd4 Lc8 21.Pb3 g6
22.Dh4 Le7 23.Lg2 Ld7 24.Lf1 Dd6
25.Lg2 De6 26.Dh2 (7.622.325.323) 454
54 279:43 -1.57 13.Dg2 O-O-O 14.f3 Ld7 15.O-O-O g6
16.Pb5 Db6 17.a4 a6 18.a5 De6 19.Pd4 De5
20.Pb3 La4 21.Kb1 Lxb3 22.cxb3 Lg7
23.Ld3 Pe8 24.Lc1 Pd6 25.Th1 Kb8
26.Th7 (7.622.325.323) 454
54 279:43 -1.72 13.Lh3 Lxh3 14.Dxh3 Dd7 15.Df1 O-O-O
16.O-O-O g6 17.f3 a6 18.Kb1 Lc5
19.a3 De6 20.Te1 Th8 21.Pa4 Ld6
22.Lb4 Lxb4 23.axb4 Dh3 24.De2 Te8
25.b3 Dh4 26.Dd2 (7.622.325.323) 454
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
-
Jouni
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm
Re: Grob is draw?
These are SF evaluations. BTW this page https://github.com/robertnurnberg/grobt ... -file#1-g4 shows, that score has gone over 200, but win percentage is not improved in one year. About 98,5 % now.
Jouni
-
Jouni
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm
Re: Grob is draw?
Grob is black win. But Stockfish is not perfect yet. It cannot win all black games. This happen in one of 70 test games.
[pgn]
[Event "Grob"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2024.10.03"]
[Round "1"]
[White "ShashChess 35.1"]
[Black "Stockfish 17"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Annotator "-1.20;-1.33"]
[PlyCount "163"]
1. g4 d5 {-1.33/29 10} 2.
e3 {-1.20/25 12 (c4)} Nc6 {-1.39/31 15 (h5)} 3. d4 {-1.22/23 3} e5 {-1.40/28 3}
4. Nc3 {-1.25/26 6} Be6 {-1.37/28 4} 5. dxe5 {-1.30/27 14} Nxe5 {-1.44/26 4} 6.
h3 {-1.36/29 10} h5 {-1.41/30 5} 7. Nf3 {-1.33/29 10} Nxf3+ {-1.51/29 5} 8.
Qxf3 {-1.36/27 3} hxg4 {-1.44/31 6} 9. hxg4 {-1.37/27 6} Bxg4 {-1.43/30 6} 10.
Qg2 {-1.47/28 14} Rxh1 {-1.41/30 5} 11. Qxh1 {-1.32/28 4} Nf6 {-1.44/30 5} 12.
Bd2 {-1.33/28 4} Qd6 {-1.53/30 7} 13. Qg2 {-1.38/23 3} O-O-O {-1.46/28 5} 14.
f3 {-1.37/27 5} Bd7 {-1.51/29 7} 15. O-O-O {-1.42/28 6} g6 {-1.42/29 6} 16. Kb1
{-1.38/28 10} Qe6 {-1.49/32 11} 17. Ne2 {-1.32/30 21} Bc5 {-1.53/28 6} 18. Nf4
{-1.38/24 3} Qe7 {-1.58/30 6} 19. Re1 {-1.46/30 25} Bb4 {-1.56/30 6} 20. a3 {
-1.46/25 4} Bxd2 {-1.58/30 5} 21. Qxd2 {-1.49/26 4} Qd6 {-1.63/32 23} 22. Qd4 {
-1.40/25 4} Kb8 {-1.63/29 5} 23. Nd3 {-1.46/27 4} Re8 {-1.63/30 5} 24. Nc5 {-1.
46/25 3} Bc8 {-1.66/27 5} 25. Qb4 {-1.43/29 8} Qg3 {-1.63/29 8} 26. Ka2 {-1.44/
26 10 (Bb5)} Ka8 {-1.66/28 10} 27. Bd3 {-1.58/28 28} Qd6 {-1.67/27 5 (c6)} 28.
Nb3 {-1.40/23 3 (Kb1)} Qxb4 {-1.77/30 8 (Qe7)} 29. axb4 {-1.24/29 3} a6 {-1.74/
30 5} 30. Nd4 {-1.30/29 4} Kb8 {-1.81/29 5} 31. c4 {-1.21/32 7 (Kb3)} c6 {-1.
31/65 18} 32. b3 {-1.20/31 4} Kc7 {-1.30/35 4 (Bd7)} 33. Kb2 {-1.19/32 3} Kd6 {
-1.30/44 5 (Rh8)} 34. Kc3 {-1.22/32 5} Bd7 {-1.32/36 6 (Rh8)} 35. Bf1 {-1.23/
34 10 (Kd2)} Rh8 {-1.27/43 7} 36. Bd3 {-1.14/30 2 (Be2)} Rh2 {-1.24/41 5 (Rh3)}
37. e4 {-0.85/33 12 (Rb1)} dxe4 {-0.91/35 11} 38. fxe4 {-0.92/27 1} Ke7 {-1.15/
41 26} 39. e5 {-0.85/29 2} Ng4 {-1.20/25 1} 40. e6 {-1.05/30 5} fxe6 {-1.21/29
2} 41. Bxg6 {-1.12/26 3} Kf6 {-1.10/37 7 (e5)} 42. Bd3 {-1.07/28 2} e5 {-1.07/
28 1} 43. Nf3 {-1.04/29 2} Rh3 {-1.06/29 1} 44. Ng1 {-1.03/27 3} Re3 {-1.19/31
5} 45. Rf1+ {-1.12/28 3} Ke7 {-1.17/27 1} 46. Kd2 {-1.20/30 16} Be6 {-1.20/25 2
} 47. Ne2 {-0.95/26 4} Rh3 {-1.21/26 2} 48. Rg1 {-0.85/22 2 (Ng1)} Rh2 {-0.92/
30 12} 49. Kc3 {-0.78/20 1} Nf2 {-0.94/23 1} 50. Bb1 {-0.97/26 8} Bg4 {-0.97/
27 2} 51. Ng3 {-0.88/21 1} Nd1+ {-1.12/28 6 (Ke6)} 52. Kd3 {-0.94/23 2} Nb2+ {
-0.86/27 4 (Ke6)} 53. Kc3 {-1.02/24 1} Nd1+ {-0.83/19 0} 54. Kd3 {-0.97/24 1}
Nf2+ {-0.77/28 5} 55. Kc3 {-0.93/21 1} Ke6 {-0.73/22 1} 56. Bc2 {-0.78/26 7}
Nh3 {-0.75/21 1} 57. Rh1 {-0.99/23 2} Rxh1 {-0.75/21 1} 58. Nxh1 {-0.72/21 1}
Nf4 {-0.72/28 4 (Ng5)} 59. Ng3 {-0.69/20 2} b6 {-0.76/27 1} 60. Kd2 {-0.58/23 2
} Ke7 {-0.75/37 2} 61. Be4 {-0.60/22 2} Kd7 {-0.80/28 2} 62. Nh1 {-0.44/27 6}
Nh3 {-0.77/28 2} 63. Ke3 {-0.50/25 1 (Bc2)} Kd6 {-0.57/34 6} 64. Ng3 {-0.53/22
1} Ng5 {-0.59/24 2} 65. Bc2 {-0.44/24 2} Be6 {-0.45/29 10} 66. Ne2 {-0.43/23 3}
Bf7 {-0.37/27 4 (c5)} 67. Nc3 {-0.35/20 2} Ne6 {-0.28/23 3 (b5)} 68. Bb1 {-0.
32/25 3} Bg8 {-0.24/28 4} 69. Na4 {-0.25/26 2} b5 {-0.19/22 2} 70. Nc3 {-0.19/
26 3} Ke7 {-0.19/25 2} 71. Ke4 {-0.18/25 2} Kf6 {-0.16/21 1} 72. Ke3 {-0.22/28
2} Ke7 {-0.23/32 3 (Bf7)} 73. Ke4 {-0.13/30 2} Kf6 {-0.17/25 1} 74. Ke3 {-0.14/
32 2} Bf7 {-0.17/30 2} 75. Ne4+ {-0.12/33 5 (Ne2)} Ke7 {-0.17/26 2} 76. Bd3 {
-0.10/32 2} Bh5 {-0.07/36 4} 77. Kd2 {-0.11/30 2 (Bf1)} Bg6 {-0.12/33 6 (Bf3)}
78. Nf2 {-0.11/34 8} Bxd3 {-0.08/30 1} 79. Kxd3 {0.00/32 1} Kf6 {-0.01/48 3}
80. Ne4+ {0.00/38 2} Kf5 {0.00/43 2} 81. Ng3+ {0.00/40 2} Kf4 {0.00/47 2} 82.
Ne2+ {0.00/42 2 Draw accepted} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
[pgn]
[Event "Grob"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2024.10.03"]
[Round "1"]
[White "ShashChess 35.1"]
[Black "Stockfish 17"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Annotator "-1.20;-1.33"]
[PlyCount "163"]
1. g4 d5 {-1.33/29 10} 2.
e3 {-1.20/25 12 (c4)} Nc6 {-1.39/31 15 (h5)} 3. d4 {-1.22/23 3} e5 {-1.40/28 3}
4. Nc3 {-1.25/26 6} Be6 {-1.37/28 4} 5. dxe5 {-1.30/27 14} Nxe5 {-1.44/26 4} 6.
h3 {-1.36/29 10} h5 {-1.41/30 5} 7. Nf3 {-1.33/29 10} Nxf3+ {-1.51/29 5} 8.
Qxf3 {-1.36/27 3} hxg4 {-1.44/31 6} 9. hxg4 {-1.37/27 6} Bxg4 {-1.43/30 6} 10.
Qg2 {-1.47/28 14} Rxh1 {-1.41/30 5} 11. Qxh1 {-1.32/28 4} Nf6 {-1.44/30 5} 12.
Bd2 {-1.33/28 4} Qd6 {-1.53/30 7} 13. Qg2 {-1.38/23 3} O-O-O {-1.46/28 5} 14.
f3 {-1.37/27 5} Bd7 {-1.51/29 7} 15. O-O-O {-1.42/28 6} g6 {-1.42/29 6} 16. Kb1
{-1.38/28 10} Qe6 {-1.49/32 11} 17. Ne2 {-1.32/30 21} Bc5 {-1.53/28 6} 18. Nf4
{-1.38/24 3} Qe7 {-1.58/30 6} 19. Re1 {-1.46/30 25} Bb4 {-1.56/30 6} 20. a3 {
-1.46/25 4} Bxd2 {-1.58/30 5} 21. Qxd2 {-1.49/26 4} Qd6 {-1.63/32 23} 22. Qd4 {
-1.40/25 4} Kb8 {-1.63/29 5} 23. Nd3 {-1.46/27 4} Re8 {-1.63/30 5} 24. Nc5 {-1.
46/25 3} Bc8 {-1.66/27 5} 25. Qb4 {-1.43/29 8} Qg3 {-1.63/29 8} 26. Ka2 {-1.44/
26 10 (Bb5)} Ka8 {-1.66/28 10} 27. Bd3 {-1.58/28 28} Qd6 {-1.67/27 5 (c6)} 28.
Nb3 {-1.40/23 3 (Kb1)} Qxb4 {-1.77/30 8 (Qe7)} 29. axb4 {-1.24/29 3} a6 {-1.74/
30 5} 30. Nd4 {-1.30/29 4} Kb8 {-1.81/29 5} 31. c4 {-1.21/32 7 (Kb3)} c6 {-1.
31/65 18} 32. b3 {-1.20/31 4} Kc7 {-1.30/35 4 (Bd7)} 33. Kb2 {-1.19/32 3} Kd6 {
-1.30/44 5 (Rh8)} 34. Kc3 {-1.22/32 5} Bd7 {-1.32/36 6 (Rh8)} 35. Bf1 {-1.23/
34 10 (Kd2)} Rh8 {-1.27/43 7} 36. Bd3 {-1.14/30 2 (Be2)} Rh2 {-1.24/41 5 (Rh3)}
37. e4 {-0.85/33 12 (Rb1)} dxe4 {-0.91/35 11} 38. fxe4 {-0.92/27 1} Ke7 {-1.15/
41 26} 39. e5 {-0.85/29 2} Ng4 {-1.20/25 1} 40. e6 {-1.05/30 5} fxe6 {-1.21/29
2} 41. Bxg6 {-1.12/26 3} Kf6 {-1.10/37 7 (e5)} 42. Bd3 {-1.07/28 2} e5 {-1.07/
28 1} 43. Nf3 {-1.04/29 2} Rh3 {-1.06/29 1} 44. Ng1 {-1.03/27 3} Re3 {-1.19/31
5} 45. Rf1+ {-1.12/28 3} Ke7 {-1.17/27 1} 46. Kd2 {-1.20/30 16} Be6 {-1.20/25 2
} 47. Ne2 {-0.95/26 4} Rh3 {-1.21/26 2} 48. Rg1 {-0.85/22 2 (Ng1)} Rh2 {-0.92/
30 12} 49. Kc3 {-0.78/20 1} Nf2 {-0.94/23 1} 50. Bb1 {-0.97/26 8} Bg4 {-0.97/
27 2} 51. Ng3 {-0.88/21 1} Nd1+ {-1.12/28 6 (Ke6)} 52. Kd3 {-0.94/23 2} Nb2+ {
-0.86/27 4 (Ke6)} 53. Kc3 {-1.02/24 1} Nd1+ {-0.83/19 0} 54. Kd3 {-0.97/24 1}
Nf2+ {-0.77/28 5} 55. Kc3 {-0.93/21 1} Ke6 {-0.73/22 1} 56. Bc2 {-0.78/26 7}
Nh3 {-0.75/21 1} 57. Rh1 {-0.99/23 2} Rxh1 {-0.75/21 1} 58. Nxh1 {-0.72/21 1}
Nf4 {-0.72/28 4 (Ng5)} 59. Ng3 {-0.69/20 2} b6 {-0.76/27 1} 60. Kd2 {-0.58/23 2
} Ke7 {-0.75/37 2} 61. Be4 {-0.60/22 2} Kd7 {-0.80/28 2} 62. Nh1 {-0.44/27 6}
Nh3 {-0.77/28 2} 63. Ke3 {-0.50/25 1 (Bc2)} Kd6 {-0.57/34 6} 64. Ng3 {-0.53/22
1} Ng5 {-0.59/24 2} 65. Bc2 {-0.44/24 2} Be6 {-0.45/29 10} 66. Ne2 {-0.43/23 3}
Bf7 {-0.37/27 4 (c5)} 67. Nc3 {-0.35/20 2} Ne6 {-0.28/23 3 (b5)} 68. Bb1 {-0.
32/25 3} Bg8 {-0.24/28 4} 69. Na4 {-0.25/26 2} b5 {-0.19/22 2} 70. Nc3 {-0.19/
26 3} Ke7 {-0.19/25 2} 71. Ke4 {-0.18/25 2} Kf6 {-0.16/21 1} 72. Ke3 {-0.22/28
2} Ke7 {-0.23/32 3 (Bf7)} 73. Ke4 {-0.13/30 2} Kf6 {-0.17/25 1} 74. Ke3 {-0.14/
32 2} Bf7 {-0.17/30 2} 75. Ne4+ {-0.12/33 5 (Ne2)} Ke7 {-0.17/26 2} 76. Bd3 {
-0.10/32 2} Bh5 {-0.07/36 4} 77. Kd2 {-0.11/30 2 (Bf1)} Bg6 {-0.12/33 6 (Bf3)}
78. Nf2 {-0.11/34 8} Bxd3 {-0.08/30 1} 79. Kxd3 {0.00/32 1} Kf6 {-0.01/48 3}
80. Ne4+ {0.00/38 2} Kf5 {0.00/43 2} 81. Ng3+ {0.00/40 2} Kf4 {0.00/47 2} 82.
Ne2+ {0.00/42 2 Draw accepted} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
Jouni