Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Father
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Post by Father »

[pgn]1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. c4 Qd8 4. Nf3 e6 5. d4 Nf6 6. g4 Nxg4 7. Rg1 Nf6 8. Be3 Bb4+ 9. Ke2 g6 10. Ne5 Nc6 11. Qa4 Bd6 12. Bg2 Bd7 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. c5 Be7 15. Bh6 Bf8 16. Bg5 Be7 17. Bh6 Bf8 18. Bg5 Be7 19. Bh6 [/pgn]
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

The ghost white horse. The ghost Catecan

Post by Father »

[pgn]
I don't know what happens in the layout and conversion to the pgn. The game never had White's queen-side knight, the knight that appears in this diagram is a hologram, or probably, a ghost knight.[/pgn]
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
lkaufman
Posts: 5994
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA

Re: Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Post by lkaufman »

Father wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:39 pm
Father wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:33 pm
lkaufman wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:35 am
Father wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 5:04 am
Thanks for the message; In order to be able to play the games against the computer running on the "LeelaKnightOdds" bot or the "LeelaKnightOdds-dev", I must reset my password that I have forgotten on my Lichess username of "Catecan;" I have not been able to enter :arrow: to lichess; As soon as it is possible for me to return to lichess I will try to achieve a discreet performance; If my score were at least one hundred percent against myself, it wont be a problem, becouse of my goal will be to try to have a basic understanding of the psychological profile of the chess program algorithm, which in itself is the greatest teaching that I can hope to have in the short term. I still continue to face the chess programs in playchess in the engine room, climbing the impossible mountain inch by inch, each defeat representing a pleasure and an achievement since each fall is like each wound on the battlefield in war: "A medal." For me it is a great pleasure to play against super players, because the pleasure is chess in itself considered, and, to tell the truth, I do not feel any fear of losing, since my objective is to fight, my mission is to fight, and m dream to win Thanks again for your advice./quote]
I saw that you tried to play a game with "LeelaKnightOdds" but it refused. I believe the reason is that you selected color "random"; you should specify that you want to play Black. It is only set up to give the odds, not receive them.
Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman for giving me the knowledge of the existence of the chess program "LeelaKnightOdds" in Lichess. I have been able to play a significant number of matchups, and finally reached my first draw. "LeelaKnightOdds" is an intelligent Bengal Tiger without one of its legs, which does not make it an inferior ribal, on the contrary the algorithm of "LeelaKnightOdds" is great taking advantage of space, mobility, and sectoral pressure, which combines us humans in a machine objective in search us the humans, of their food, in the style of the unforgettable movie "The War of the Worlds Alien Invasion." As in the movie, our duty, following the north of the survival instinct, is to deeply know the ribal, the silicon monster. Thanks again. I will continue learning from chess computers. By the way... "LeelaKnightOdds" also has a survival instinct, because by repeating plays he accessed the draw. This profile of the algorithm is very human and makes it great.
[pgn]1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. c4 Qd8 4. Nf3 e6 5. d4 Nf6 6. g4 Nxg4 7. Rg1 Nf6 8. Be3 Bb4+ 9. Ke2 g6 10. Ne5 Nc6 11. Qa4 Bd6 12. Bg2 Bd7 13. Nxc6 bxc6 [/pgn]
Your diagram and game score don't work because the initial diagram shows the normal start position, not the position with the knight removed. Perhaps someone can explain the exact procedure to post a game from such a position. Meanwhile, if you want an even tougher challenge, the bot "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" near the bottom of the bot list is probably harder to beat or draw, because it was actually trained specially for knight odds. One player rated in the 2400s needed over 80 games just to get one win and one draw!
Komodo rules!
Father
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 12:55 am
Father wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:39 pm
Father wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:33 pm
lkaufman wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:35 am
Father wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 5:04 am
Thanks for the message; In order to be able to play the games against the computer running on the "LeelaKnightOdds" bot or the "LeelaKnightOdds-dev", I must reset my password that I have forgotten on my Lichess username of "Catecan;" I have not been able to enter :arrow: to lichess; As soon as it is possible for me to return to lichess I will try to achieve a discreet performance; If my score were at least one hundred percent against myself, it wont be a problem, becouse of my goal will be to try to have a basic understanding of the psychological profile of the chess program algorithm, which in itself is the greatest teaching that I can hope to have in the short term. I still continue to face the chess programs in playchess in the engine room, climbing the impossible mountain inch by inch, each defeat representing a pleasure and an achievement since each fall is like each wound on the battlefield in war: "A medal." For me it is a great pleasure to play against super players, because the pleasure is chess in itself considered, and, to tell the truth, I do not feel any fear of losing, since my objective is to fight, my mission is to fight, and m dream to win Thanks again for your advice./quote]
I saw that you tried to play a game with "LeelaKnightOdds" but it refused. I believe the reason is that you selected color "random"; you should specify that you want to play Black. It is only set up to give the odds, not receive them.
Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman for giving me the knowledge of the existence of the chess program "LeelaKnightOdds" in Lichess. I have been able to play a significant number of matchups, and finally reached my first draw. "LeelaKnightOdds" is an intelligent Bengal Tiger without one of its legs, which does not make it an inferior ribal, on the contrary the algorithm of "LeelaKnightOdds" is great taking advantage of space, mobility, and sectoral pressure, which combines us humans in a machine objective in search us the humans, of their food, in the style of the unforgettable movie "The War of the Worlds Alien Invasion." As in the movie, our duty, following the north of the survival instinct, is to deeply know the ribal, the silicon monster. Thanks again. I will continue learning from chess computers. By the way... "LeelaKnightOdds" also has a survival instinct, because by repeating plays he accessed the draw. This profile of the algorithm is very human and makes it great.
[pgn]1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. c4 Qd8 4. Nf3 e6 5. d4 Nf6 6. g4 Nxg4 7. Rg1 Nf6 8. Be3 Bb4+ 9. Ke2 g6 10. Ne5 Nc6 11. Qa4 Bd6 12. Bg2 Bd7 13. Nxc6 bxc6 [/pgn]
Your diagram and game score don't work because the initial diagram shows the normal start position, not the position with the knight removed. Perhaps someone can explain the exact procedure to post a game from such a position. Meanwhile, if you want an even tougher challenge, the bot "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" near the bottom of the bot list is probably harder to beat or draw, because it was actually trained specially for knight odds. One player rated in the 2400s needed over 80 games just to get one win and one draw!
...my soul immediately feels when facing "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" how different its valuation parameter is, from its algorithm in the relationship between knights and bishops; "LeelaKnightOdds- and "LeelaKnightOdds" dev" are two cybernetic brothers, who have a common mark in their DNA but an independent algorithmic being; The first is a galloping horse, the second a horse that is flatter in its gait, more similar to the mule, safer and stronger in its footsteps, but slower. "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" is definitely different from "LeelaKnightOdds"
In my match against "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" it didn't take more than ten matches to reach my first draw; Applying this statistical performance index, we would have that in eighty games I should access
to something like four points at least, which numerically would show an interesting playing power in me facing the chess modules. The latter makes me happy, but this happiness is never comparable to what it brings me to face the chess modules and master them sometimes, sometimes, rarely, or many times. The important thing is to win some cyber boxing fights.
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 2:24 am
lkaufman wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 12:55 am
Father wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:39 pm
Father wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:33 pm
lkaufman wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:35 am
Father wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 5:04 am
Thanks for the message; In order to be able to play the games against the computer running on the "LeelaKnightOdds" bot or the "LeelaKnightOdds-dev", I must reset my password that I have forgotten on my Lichess username of "Catecan;" I have not been able to enter :arrow: to lichess; As soon as it is possible for me to return to lichess I will try to achieve a discreet performance; If my score were at least one hundred percent against myself, it wont be a problem, becouse of my goal will be to try to have a basic understanding of the psychological profile of the chess program algorithm, which in itself is the greatest teaching that I can hope to have in the short term. I still continue to face the chess programs in playchess in the engine room, climbing the impossible mountain inch by inch, each defeat representing a pleasure and an achievement since each fall is like each wound on the battlefield in war: "A medal." For me it is a great pleasure to play against super players, because the pleasure is chess in itself considered, and, to tell the truth, I do not feel any fear of losing, since my objective is to fight, my mission is to fight, and m dream to win Thanks again for your advice./quote]
I saw that you tried to play a game with "LeelaKnightOdds" but it refused. I believe the reason is that you selected color "random"; you should specify that you want to play Black. It is only set up to give the odds, not receive them.
Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman for giving me the knowledge of the existence of the chess program "LeelaKnightOdds" in Lichess. I have been able to play a significant number of matchups, and finally reached my first draw. "LeelaKnightOdds" is an intelligent Bengal Tiger without one of its legs, which does not make it an inferior ribal, on the contrary the algorithm of "LeelaKnightOdds" is great taking advantage of space, mobility, and sectoral pressure, which combines us humans in a machine objective in search us the humans, of their food, in the style of the unforgettable movie "The War of the Worlds Alien Invasion." As in the movie, our duty, following the north of the survival instinct, is to deeply know the ribal, the silicon monster. Thanks again. I will continue learning from chess computers. By the way... "LeelaKnightOdds" also has a survival instinct, because by repeating plays he accessed the draw. This profile of the algorithm is very human and makes it great.
[pgn]1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. c4 Qd8 4. Nf3 e6 5. d4 Nf6 6. g4 Nxg4 7. Rg1 Nf6 8. Be3 Bb4+ 9. Ke2 g6 10. Ne5 Nc6 11. Qa4 Bd6 12. Bg2 Bd7 13. Nxc6 bxc6 [/pgn]
Your diagram and game score don't work because the initial diagram shows the normal start position, not the position with the knight removed. Perhaps someone can explain the exact procedure to post a game from such a position. Meanwhile, if you want an even tougher challenge, the bot "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" near the bottom of the bot list is probably harder to beat or draw, because it was actually trained specially for knight odds. One player rated in the 2400s needed over 80 games just to get one win and one draw!
...my soul immediately feels when facing "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" how different its valuation parameter is, from its algorithm in the relationship between knights and bishops; "LeelaKnightOdds- and "LeelaKnightOdds" dev" are two cybernetic brothers, who have a common mark in their DNA but an independent algorithmic being; The first is a galloping horse, the second a horse that is flatter in its gait, more similar to the mule, safer and stronger in its footsteps, but slower. "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" is definitely different from "LeelaKnightOdds"
In my match against "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" it didn't take more than ten matches to reach my first draw; Applying this statistical performance index, we would have that in eighty games I should access
to something like four points at least, which numerically would show an interesting playing power in me facing the chess modules. The latter makes me happy, but this happiness is never comparable to what it brings me to face the chess modules and master them sometimes, sometimes, rarely, or many times. The important thing is to win some cyber boxing fights.
[pgn]1. Nf3 d5 2. e3 e6 3. b3 c6 4. Rg1 f5 5. Bb2 Nf6 6. h3 Be7 7. g4 O-O 8. gxf5 exf5 9. Bd3 Ne8 10. h4 Bf6 11. Ba3 Be7 12. Bb2 Bf6 13. Ba3 Be7 14. Bb2 [/pgn]
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

" Dust in the win."

Post by Father »

... It is important to note that the knight of the queen of the white pieces never existed in this game, nor in the ones I have reported here; This white horse on the queen's side, more than a hologram, or a ghost horse, it really is an illusion. And in this sense it is similar to our existence in this world. Individuals, towns and nations, and even the entire humanity, often ride and fight, pursuing illusions. Remembering my favorite song, what human beings really are, is, "dust in the win," the Kansas. I have faith that when I leave I will continue playing chess in my new immaterial home, where pure ideas and thought will be part of everyday life.
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Post by Father »

[pgn]1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 4. d4 e6 5. Be3 Nf6 6. Qf3 Nd5 7. Bd3 Bb4 8. Bd2 Nxc3 9. bxc3 Be7 10. Qg4 g6 11. Bh6 Bf8 12. Bg5 Be7 13. Bh6 Bf8 14. Bg5 Be7 15. Bh6 [/pgn]
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Uri Blass
Posts: 10446
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Post by Uri Blass »

lkaufman wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 12:55 am
Father wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:39 pm
Father wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:33 pm
lkaufman wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:35 am
Father wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 5:04 am
Thanks for the message; In order to be able to play the games against the computer running on the "LeelaKnightOdds" bot or the "LeelaKnightOdds-dev", I must reset my password that I have forgotten on my Lichess username of "Catecan;" I have not been able to enter :arrow: to lichess; As soon as it is possible for me to return to lichess I will try to achieve a discreet performance; If my score were at least one hundred percent against myself, it wont be a problem, becouse of my goal will be to try to have a basic understanding of the psychological profile of the chess program algorithm, which in itself is the greatest teaching that I can hope to have in the short term. I still continue to face the chess programs in playchess in the engine room, climbing the impossible mountain inch by inch, each defeat representing a pleasure and an achievement since each fall is like each wound on the battlefield in war: "A medal." For me it is a great pleasure to play against super players, because the pleasure is chess in itself considered, and, to tell the truth, I do not feel any fear of losing, since my objective is to fight, my mission is to fight, and m dream to win Thanks again for your advice./quote]
I saw that you tried to play a game with "LeelaKnightOdds" but it refused. I believe the reason is that you selected color "random"; you should specify that you want to play Black. It is only set up to give the odds, not receive them.
Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman for giving me the knowledge of the existence of the chess program "LeelaKnightOdds" in Lichess. I have been able to play a significant number of matchups, and finally reached my first draw. "LeelaKnightOdds" is an intelligent Bengal Tiger without one of its legs, which does not make it an inferior ribal, on the contrary the algorithm of "LeelaKnightOdds" is great taking advantage of space, mobility, and sectoral pressure, which combines us humans in a machine objective in search us the humans, of their food, in the style of the unforgettable movie "The War of the Worlds Alien Invasion." As in the movie, our duty, following the north of the survival instinct, is to deeply know the ribal, the silicon monster. Thanks again. I will continue learning from chess computers. By the way... "LeelaKnightOdds" also has a survival instinct, because by repeating plays he accessed the draw. This profile of the algorithm is very human and makes it great.
[pgn]1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. c4 Qd8 4. Nf3 e6 5. d4 Nf6 6. g4 Nxg4 7. Rg1 Nf6 8. Be3 Bb4+ 9. Ke2 g6 10. Ne5 Nc6 11. Qa4 Bd6 12. Bg2 Bd7 13. Nxc6 bxc6 [/pgn]
Your diagram and game score don't work because the initial diagram shows the normal start position, not the position with the knight removed. Perhaps someone can explain the exact procedure to post a game from such a position. Meanwhile, if you want an even tougher challenge, the bot "LeelaKnightOdds-dev" near the bottom of the bot list is probably harder to beat or draw, because it was actually trained specially for knight odds. One player rated in the 2400s needed over 80 games just to get one win and one draw!
I guess the player tried to win(trying to win or draw is probably significantly easier because LeelaKnightOdds-dev allow reptitions after a small number of moves)
Uri Blass
Posts: 10446
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Post by Uri Blass »

Here is a pgn that include the initial position

[pgn][Event "Casual blitz game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/lCA14qDd"]
[Date "2024.09.24"]
[White "LeelaKnightOdds-dev"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.09.24"]
[UTCTime "02:04:58"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2082"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 4. d4 e6 5. Be3 Nf6 6. Qf3 Nd5 7. Bd3 Bb4 8. Bd2 Nxc3 9. bxc3 Be7 10. Qg4 g6 11. Bh6 Bf8 12. Bg5 Be7 13. Bh6 Bf8 14. Bg5 Be7 15. Bh6 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
Father
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Antichess technique applied to International Masters. Man against machine and against chess professionals.

Post by Father »

Uri, what you sayit is true. These two chess programs have two characteristics in their psychological profile or algorithm that are not mutually exclusive but opposite; on the one hand, they are dynamic and take a high tactical risk in the field of war, but on the other side of the coin, given the imbalance in material, they are very aware that simplification could in certain cases lead to losing the battle given the imbalance in the field.
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.