Why on Earth are there so many Stockfish rip-offs?

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chessica
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Re: Why on Earth are there so many Stockfish rip-offs?

Post by chessica »

supernova wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 6:39 pm
chessica wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 6:21 pm Eduard Nemeth alias Solista writes here no more and I cannot ask him whether
he has a list of his published engines and what his first engine was called.
That's why I'm asking now if anyone has information on this, so a list of all his
engines would be nice to read here. His latest keration is called Omega.
This is completely off-topic to mention. Graham is referring to ShashChess and discussing what happens with other clones or derivatives. 'Solista' seems to 'produce' almost a new one weekly under different names—over 20 in a year. I think you would be better to carefully review Graham's message. Thanks.
I was just referring to the topic, the headline. I'm absolutely no fan of Solista,
but I'm interested. When did he introduce his first creatures, what were their
names, who did he clone, or what did he clone? Staying silent or simply ignoring it
won't help anyone here.
Dann Corbit
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Re: Why on Earth are there so many Stockfish rip-offs?

Post by Dann Corbit »

Graham Banks wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 4:25 am Pretty sad really, especially when some have the programming skills to write an original engine.

Note that I don't include Shashchess in this criticism because a genuine attempt has been made by those involved to add Sashin theory into it.
Some of them are useful, for instance, for tactical solvers. Generally the changes for solvers make the engines quicker to solve chess puzzles. I use several of these on a regular basis. Some have a solve rate up to 20% higher than Stockfish with difficult problem sets at reasonable time control. These engines can also be useful for correspondence chess. The reason is that the correspondence GMs have studied the spots off of all the level ground. Typically, they can be near the mid-game by the time they fall out of their specialized book. There are times, for instance, they know their unexplored position has a positional advantage and they want to test some ideas. For positions like this, a tactical solver may have special insight to add to the regular analysis.

The idea of a GPL chess program is that anyone can make any changes they like. As long as they publish these changes, they have met the legal requirements. Now, it is definitely caveat emptor, in that the new engine may be quite a bit worse than the original and it can be tedious to find out areas where it might be useful.

So, since nobody is forcing us to try them or use them, I suggest that there is no reason that such engines should bother us. I have found some of them useful at times but my use of chess engines is probably not typical. A large number of people just want to get a blitz engine to create some high ranking online. That usage is of zero interest to me. I have a large interest in chess puzzles and in quirky chess openings like the Orangutan. I guess that I represent less than 1% of the chess aficionado population.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
cpeters
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Re: Why on Earth are there so many Stockfish rip-offs?

Post by cpeters »

chessica wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:33 pm
I was just referring to the topic, the headline. I'm absolutely no fan of Solista,
but I'm interested. When did he introduce his first creatures, what were their
names, who did he clone, or what did he clone?
Ok. The template for the latest and thankfully also his LAST (omega) montage is CorChess:
https://github.com/IIvec/Stockfish/tree/corchess

from there: some changes (in seven files/functional changes in four; I diffed them). Mainly include:
-own name (and delete Ivans)
-codebits from older Stockfish-versions: "Slow Mover"...
-codebits from latest Stockfish-versions: (

Code: Select all

Return a = p_a(material) and b = p_b(material)...
and so on.


For your other questions: Use the search for this forum/internet.
Staying silent or simply ignoring it won't help anyone here.
It'll help, trust me.
Peter Berger
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Re: Why on Earth are there so many Stockfish rip-offs?

Post by Peter Berger »

cpeters wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 7:06 pm
chessica wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:33 pm
Staying silent or simply ignoring it won't help anyone here.
It'll help, trust me.
Help to what purpose?

I think you seriously overestimate the amount of users for these engines. My personal guess would be sth like 50.

Actually that's most probably similar to the number of true downloads some of the independent projects are getting for their releases, and I understand how this is somewhat annoying.

But if my estimate is somehow right, nothing that is discussed here or elsewhere will make any major change to said user numbers.
CRoberson
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Re: Why on Earth are there so many Stockfish rip-offs?

Post by CRoberson »

Once you start rewarding people for just getting out of bed in the morning, then more will follow and that is all they will do.
30 years ago, team of software quality engineers asked me for advice on quality measurements and metrics. I ended the meeting with "Be careful what you measure, because that is all you will get".
Some are derivates not of stockfish, but stockfish derivatives so they might not know they are stockfish derivatives.
So, stop rewarding them, don't test them or put them on rating lists and the behavior will dwindle.