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Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy TB
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Ronald de Man



Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Posts: 3786

PostPost subject: Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy    Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:19 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

hgm wrote:
Of course with adjudication you would have the usual problem that you would not only often give non-tablebase users more than they deserve, but also DTM users. Because the latter could also blunder away drawn games, thinking they were lost, and playing to delay the mate, (which is unavoidable) rather than to delay the zeroing of the counter (which is also unavoidable, but is avoidable for the first 50 moves).

As an example, here a game where black is playing for a 50-move draw using DTZ50 tables:
[FEN "8/8/8/6kp/2p5/2N2K2/8/3N4 w - - 0 1"]
1. Ne3 Kf6 2. Kf4 Ke6 3. Ng2 h4 4. Nxh4 Kd6 5. Ke3 Kc5 6. Kd2 Kb4 7. Kc2 Ka3
8. Ng2 Kb4 9. Ne3 Ka3 10. Ng4 Kb4 11. Nf6 Kc5 12. Nfd5 Kc6 13. Kd1 Kd6 14. Kd2
Ke6 15. Ke2 Kf5 16. Kf3 Ke5 17. Ke3 Kf5 18. Kd4 Ke6 19. Ke4 Kd6 20. Kf5 Kc6
21. Ke6 Kc5 22. Ke5 Kc6 23. Ne3 Kd7 24. Nf5 Kc6 25. Kd4 Kc7 26. Kc5 Kd7 27. Kd5
Kc7 28. Ke6 Kd8 29. Ng3 Kc7 30. Nge4 Kd8 31. Nf6 Kc8 32. Kd5 Kc7 33. Kc5 Kc8
34. Kc6 Kd8 35. Kd6 Kc8 36. Nfd5 Kb8 37. Nf4 Kb7 38. Ne6 Kb6 39. Kd5 Kb7
40. Kc5 Ka7 41. Kc6 Ka6 42. Nf4 Ka5 43. Nfd5 Ka6 44. Kd6 Ka7 45. Kc7 Ka6
46. Kc6 Ka5 47. Kc5 Ka6 48. Ne7 Kb7 49. Kd6 Kb8 50. Kd7 Ka8 51. Kc7 Ka7 52. Nf5
Ka6 53. Kc6 Ka5 54. Kc5 Ka6 55. Nd6 Ka5 56. Nb7 Ka6 57. Kc6 Ka7 58. Nc5 Kb8
59. Kd7 Ka8 60. Kc7 Ka7 61. Nb5 Ka8 62. Na4 c3 63. Nb6#
Black can claim a draw after 54.Kc5.
And now when black is playing using DTM (e.g. Nalimov) tables:
[FEN "8/8/8/6kp/2p5/2N2K2/8/3N4 w - - 0 1"]
1. Ne3 Kg6 2. Ng2 Kf5 3. Nh4 Ke5 4. Ne2 c3 5. Nxc3 Kd4 6. Nd1 Kd3 7. Ne3 Kd4
8. Kf4 Kd3 9. Nef5 Kc4 10. Ke5 Kc5 11. Nd6 Kc6 12. Ne4 Kd7 13. Kd5 Ke7 14. Ng5
Kd7 15. Ng6 h4 16. Nh3 Kc7 17. Ne5 Kb7 18. Kd6 Kb6 19. Nc6 Ka6 20. Nd4 Kb6
21. Kd5 Ka5 22. Kc5 Ka4 23. Kc4 Ka5 24. Nf3 Kb6 25. Ne5 Ka5 26. Nd7 Ka6 27. Kb4
Kb7 28. Kc5 Ka6 29. Nf8 Ka5 30. Ne6 Ka4 31. Nd4 Ka3 32. Kc4 Kb2 33. Kb4 Kc1
34. Kc3 Kd1 35. Kd3 Kc1 36. Ne6 Kb2 37. Nc5 Kc1 38. Na4 Kb1 39. Kd2 Ka2 40. Kc3
Kb1 41. Nc5 Kc1 42. Nb3 Kb1 43. Nd2 Ka2 44. Nc4 Kb1 45. Kd2 Ka2 46. Kc2 Ka1
47. Kb3 Kb1 48. Nb2 Kc1 49. Kc3 Kb1 50. Nd3 Ka2 51. Kb4 Kb1 52. Kb3 Ka1 53. Ne5
Kb1 54. Nf3 Kc1 55. Kc3 Kb1 56. Nf4 Ka1 57. Kb3 h3 58. Nh2 Kb1 59. Nd3 Ka1
60. Kc2 Ka2 61. Nb2 Ka1 62. Kc3 Ka2 63. Nc4 Kb1 64. Kd2 Ka1 65. Kc1 Ka2 66. Kc2
Ka1 67. Kb3 Kb1 68. Nd2 Kc1 69. Kc3 Kd1 70. Nb3 Ke1 71. Kd4 Ke2 72. Ke4 Ke1
73. Ke3 Kd1 74. Kd3 Ke1 75. Nd4 Kd1 76. Ne2 Ke1 77. Nc3 Kf2 78. Kd2 Kg2 79. Ke3
Kg3 80. Ne2 Kg2 81. Nd4 Kg3 82. Ndf3 Kg2 83. Nd2 Kg3 84. Ndf1 Kh4 85. Kf4 Kh5
86. Kf5 Kh6 87. Kf6 Kh5 88. Ne3 Kh6 89. Neg4 Kh7 90. Kf7 Kh8 91. Ne3 Kh7
92. Nf5 Kh8 93. Kg6 Kg8 94. Ng7 Kf8 95. Kf6 Kg8 96. Ne6 Kh7 97. Kg5 Kg8 98. Kg6
Kh8 99. Kf7 Kh7 100. Ng4 h2 101. Ng5 Kh8 102. Ne5 h1=Q 103. Ng6#
Black is lost after 1...Kg6.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy TB Mark Young Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:34 am
      Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Barry Culp Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:57 am
            Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Ted Summers Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:00 pm
                  Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Matthias Gemuh Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:30 pm
                        Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Ted Summers Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:52 pm
                        Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy H.G.Muller Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:52 pm
                              Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Rob Nicholas Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:59 pm
                              Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Ronald de Man Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:05 pm
                                    Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Rob Nicholas Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:27 pm
                                          Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Ronald de Man Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:32 pm
                                          Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Rob Nicholas Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:48 am
                              Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Matthias Gemuh Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:16 pm
                                    Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Ronald de Man Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:30 pm
                                    Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy H.G.Muller Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:01 pm
                                          Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Ronald de Man Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:19 pm
                                                Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Ronald de Man Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:36 pm
                                          Re: Possible draw bug in Chessbase Houdini 4 GUI with Syzygy Matthias Gemuh Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:32 pm
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