From Russia With Love........

Christopher Conkie · Post by **Christopher Conkie** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:59 am

[D]rnbkkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBKKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

Strelka 1.0 x32&#58;
   1	00&#58;00.269	           1	1	+0.02	h4
   1	00&#58;00.300	           3	3	+0.06	g4
   1	00&#58;00.309	           7	7	+0.21	e4
   1	00&#58;00.319	          17	17	+0.33	Nh3
   1	00&#58;00.328	          18	18	+0.69	Nf3
   2	00&#58;00.339	          45	45	+0.03	Nf3 Nc6
   3	00&#58;00.342	         151	151	+0.69	Nf3 Nc6 Nc3
   4	00&#58;00.346	         348	348	+0.03	Nf3 Nc6 Nc3 Nf6
   5	00&#58;00.349	       1.355	1.355	+0.21	Nf3 Nc6 Nc3 Nf6 d3
   6	00&#58;00.353	       3.906	390.600	+0.03	Nf3 Nc6 Nc3 Nf6 d3 e6
   6	00&#58;00.365	       8.811	881.100	+0.91	Nc3 e6 Ne4 Ke7 Nf3 Nc6
   7	00&#58;00.379	      10.890	363.000	+0.89	Nc3 e6 Ne4 Ke7 Nf3 Nf6 Nc5
   8	00&#58;00.412	      67.644	483.171	+0.81	Nc3 d6 Nb5 Kd7 g3 e6 Nf3 Nc6
   9	00&#58;00.463	      96.960	538.666	+0.91	Nc3 d6 Nf3 Nc6 Nd5 Kd7 Ng5 Nh6 Ne4
  10	00&#58;00.545	     165.598	636.915	+0.63	Nc3 d6 Nf3 Nc6 Nd5 Kd7 Ng5 Nh6 d3 Nf5 Bd2
  11	00&#58;00.988	     521.236	734.135	+0.72	Nc3 d6 Nf3 Nc6 Nd5 Kd7 Ng5 Nh6 e3 e6 Nf4
  12	00&#58;01.176	   1.477.026	777.382	+0.67	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 Bc4 Be6 Bxe6 fxe6 Nf3 Nf6 d3 e5 Be3
  13	00&#58;04.800	   3.619.792	811.612	+0.85	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 Bb5 Kd7 Nf3 Nf6 0-0 Ng4 d4 e5 Be3 Nxe3+ fxe3
  14	00&#58;08.577	   6.717.095	829.270	+0.87	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 0-0 Be7 Bf4 0-0 Kd2
  15	00&#58;15.836	  12.536.044	815.087	+0.91	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 Bf4 Be7 0-0 0-0 Ke2
  16	00&#58;33.127	  27.563.846	835.268	+0.80	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 Bf4 Be7 0-0 Nh5 Be3 0-0 Kd2
  17	01&#58;21.243	  67.363.347	831.646	+0.77	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 Bf4 Be7 0-0 0-0 a4 Nh5 Be3
  18	10&#58;22.079	 525.619.328	845.047	+0.90	Nc3 d6 e4 c6 d4 Bg4+ f3 Bd7 e5 d5 Nh3 Bxh3 gxh3 Nd7 Bd3 e6 Rg1 Kc7 Bg5 Nh6
  19	12&#58;54.077	 650.743.193	840.753	-M1	Nc3 Kxc7

[D]rnbkkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBKKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

Code: Select all

Rybka 1.2 x32&#58;
   2	00&#58;00.363	         120	122.880	+0.04	Nc3
   3	00&#58;00.394	         256	262.144	+0.04	Nc3
   4	00&#58;00.411	         640	655.360	+0.08	Nc3 Nf6
   5	00&#58;00.428	       2.544	81.408	+0.21	Nc3 d6 Nf3
   6	00&#58;00.450	       6.960	75.021	+0.30	Nc3 d6 Nf3 Nf6
   7	00&#58;00.512	      11.432	74.562	+0.27	Nc3 d6 Nf3 Nc6 Nd5
   8	00&#58;00.641	      23.016	83.575	+0.22	Nc3 d6 e3 Nc6 Bc4 Be6
   9	00&#58;00.855	      42.592	87.228	+0.22	Nc3 d6 e3 Nc6 Bc4 Be6 Bxe6
  10	00&#58;01.755	     108.528	79.951	+0.30	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 Bb5 Kd7 Nf3 Nf6
  11	00&#58;02.380	     162.776	82.150	+0.30	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 Bb5 Kd7 Nf3 Nf6 0-0
  12	00&#58;04.346	     318.280	81.581	+0.29	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6
  13	00&#58;06.913	     557.280	87.082	+0.31	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 Bf4
  14	00&#58;11.976	     990.800	87.290	+0.29	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 Bf4 Be7
  15	00&#58;18.095	   1.610.136	87.995	+0.30	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 Bf4 Be7 d5
  16	00&#58;42.082	   3.503.576	83.961	+0.30	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 d4 Kd7 Bc4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 Bf4 Be7 d5 Na5
  17	02&#58;47.683	  13.278.784	81.262	+0.34	Nc3 d6 e4 c6 d4 Bg4+ f3 Bd7 Nh3 Bxh3 gxh3 e6 Bc4 Nd7
  18	04&#58;44.100	  22.321.912	80.277	+0.45	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 Bb5 Kd7 e5 e6 Nf3 d5 Nxd5 Nh6 Ne3 Bc5
  19	06&#58;51.956	  31.849.368	79.237	+0.45	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 Bb5 Kd7 e5 e6 Nf3 d5 Nxd5 Bc5 Ne3 a6
  20	07&#58;44.103	  36.108.960	79.743	-M1	Nc3 d6 e4 Nc6 Bb5 Kd7 e5 e6 Nf3 d5 Nxd5 Bc5 Ne3 a6 Bc4 Nh6 0-0 b5

Tony Thomas · Post by **Tony Thomas** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:58 am

Do you also think that this is a clone? I think so.

Marc MP · Post by **Marc MP** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:04 am

Christopher Conkie wrote:

[D]rnbkkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBKKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

Try to play a game against either Rybka Beta (the one I tried) or Strelka from the start position with the two kings. The game changes to the chess variant first check wins! (against the Ke1 king, of course). Here my games:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.5.6"]
[Time "22:50:30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Marc MP"]
[Black "Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit"]
[Result "*"]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "rnbkkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBKKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

{0 1}
1. d3 Nc6 {0,65/8 1.2 } 2. e3 Nb4 {5,51/8 0.0 } 3. Kd2 Nf6 {0,55/8 0.1 } 4. Ke2
Nfd5 {0,00/1 0.0 } 5. Kf3 d6 {0,00/1 0.0 } 6. h3 Bg4+ {0,00/1 0.0 } *

after 4.Ke2 Rybka annonced mate with: 00:00:01.7 -Conversion in -116 69 0 Nf3 Nf4+

My game against Strelka was a bit different however:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.5.6"]
[Time "22:58:30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Marc MP"]
[Black "Strelka v.1.0.beta"]
[Result "*"]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "rnbkkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBKKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

{0 1}
1. d3 Nf6 {0,46/1 0.0 } 2. e3 Nc6 {1,30/1 0.0 } 3. Kd2 Ne4+ { C -116/1 0.0 } *

There is a pop-up message in Chess Partner: "0-1 Black Mates". Analysis on move 3 by Strelka: 00:00:00.0 Conversion in -116 1 20 Ne4+

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:47 am

this looks very convincing christopher.

at least we see for the first time the real NPS of rybka, äh strelka

Leto · Post by **Leto** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:41 am

I'm unconvinced, the scores, the time to ply, and the nps are too different. Post more position comparisons.

cooldalek · Post by **cooldalek** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:52 am

People should not be too quick to claim it is a clone.

Those that do so may even be entering dangerous ground as the author could take legal action on account of libel? (I'm no lawyer though)

Leto · Post by **Leto** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:59 am

It took Strelka ten minutes to reach 18 ply, and it only took Rybka less than five minutes. That's a huge difference.

Uri Blass · Post by **Uri Blass** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:08 am

Leto wrote:I'm unconvinced, the scores, the time to ply, and the nps are too different. Post more position comparisons.

I can say that Strelka has less endgame knowledge than rybka beta and the stupid thing even does not know that king and knight against king is a draw.

Rybka beta is also not smart enough to see 0.00 score but at least it can see score that is close to 0.00

Most engines even without tablebases can see 0.00 score and not seeing 0.00 score for king and knight against king is something strange for an engine like not being able to mate with 2 queens and not being able to underpromote.

Only small minority of the engines have one of these weaknesses so I clearly suspect based on this that Strelka is a clone of rybka when the programmer changed rybka in counter productive way or clone of some old rybka that he got from Vas and was not released.

Uri

Uri Blass · Post by **Uri Blass** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:11 am

Leto wrote:It took Strelka ten minutes to reach 18 ply, and it only took Rybka less than five minutes. That's a huge difference.

Nobody claimed that Strelka is identical to rybka.

The claim is that strelka is written based on the code of rybka
I suspect that a smart programmer may use the exe file of rybka in order to change it to make it weaker when changing it to make it stronger based only on the exe file is harder task.

Uri

rlsuth · Post by **rlsuth** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:42 pm

cooldalek wrote:People should not be too quick to claim it is a clone.

Those that do so may even be entering dangerous ground as the author could take legal action on account of libel? (I'm no lawyer though)

The author could only do that if it was presented as a statement of fact. As long as it is just conjecture, there is no problem with people saying "I think it is a clone". If however, they say it "is" a clone, then they will have to prove it to avoid being guilty of libel.

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