Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

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Uri
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Uri »

[d]4r1k1/p5pp/4b1n1/1pp5/7b/2P1BQ2/PPK1B2q/R2R4 b - - 0 25[d]

Rybka 3 plays c4 but Ne5 is clearly the stronger move here. Shredder 10 which is generally a weaker program than Rybka 3 shows Ne5 as the best move after 3 seconds.

Here's the game:

[Event "Rated game, 1m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2009.01.16"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Bigpopa7"]
[Black "Uri1"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A45"]
[WhiteElo "1526"]
[BlackElo "1368"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c3 e6 3. e3 b6 4. Nf3 Bb7 5. Be2 Be7 6. O-O O-O 7. Nbd2 d6 8. Qc2 Nbd7 9. e4 c5 10. e5 dxe5 11. dxe5 Ng4 12. Nc4 b5 13. Nd6 Bc6 14. Rd1 Ngxe5 15. Nxe5 Nxe5 16. Nxf7 Qc7 17. Ng5 Ng6 18. Nxe6 Rxf2 19.Kxf2 Qxh2 20. Qf5 Bxg2 21. Ke1 Bh4+ 22. Kd2 Re8 23. Kc2 Bh3 24. Qf3 Bxe6 25. Be3 Ne5 26. Qh5 Bf7 27. Rd2 Bxh5 28. Bxh5 Qh3 29. Bxe8 Qxe3 30. Bxb5 c4 31. b3 Bg5 32. Rad1 Qe4+ 33. Kb2 Bxd2 34. Rxd2 h5 35. Bxc4+ Nxc4+ 36. bxc4 Qxc4 37. Rd8+ Kh7 38. Rd4 Qe2+ 39. Kb3 g5 40. Rd7+ Kg6 41. Rd6+ Kf5 42. Rd5+ Kf4 43. c4 Qe3+ 44. Kb4 h4 45. Rd1 Qf2 46. Rd6 Qb2+ 47. Ka4 Qxa2+ 48. Kb5 Qb3+ 49. Kc5 h3 50. Rh6 Ke5 51. Rg6 Qa3+ 52. Kb5 Qb2+ 53. Ka5 Qa2+ 54. Kb5 Qb1+ 55. Ka5 Qxg6 56. c5 0-1
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glorfindel

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by glorfindel »

Crafty does

Code: Select all

found computer opening book file [./bookc.bin].
hash table memory = 1536M bytes.
pawn hash table memory =  256M bytes.
EGTB access enabled
using tbpath=/home/christos/chess/tb
5 piece tablebase files found
14010kb of RAM used for TB indices and decompression tables
EGTB cache memory =   32M bytes.
max threads set to 4
SMP terminate extra processes when idle
show book statistics
noise level set to 0.
pondering disabled.


Crafty v22.8 (4 cpus)

White(1): setboard 4r1k1/p5pp/4b1n1/1pp5/7b/2P1BQ2/PPK1B2q/R2R4 b - - 0 25
Black(1): analyze
Analyze Mode: type "exit" to terminate.
              time surplus   0.00  time limit 42.75 (+20.25) (3:30)
              depth   time  score   variation (1)
starting thread 1
starting thread 2
starting thread 3
                1     0.03   0.17   1. ... Ne5     (15Knps)
                1->   0.03   0.17   1. ... Ne5     (17Knps)
                2     0.03   0.27   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh57Knps)
                2->   0.03   0.27   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh51Knps)
                3     0.03   0.00   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 Bf5+ 3. Kb3
                3->   0.05   0.00   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 Bf5+ 3. Kb3
                4     0.05     -1   1. ... Ne5!!   (70Knps)
                4     0.05  -0.43   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 Bf7 3. Rh1 Bxh5 4.
                                    Rxh2 Bxe2 5. Rxe2
                4->   0.10  -0.43   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 Bf7 3. Rh1 Bxh5 4.
                                    Rxh2 Bxe2 5. Rxe2 (s=2)
                5     0.10     -1   1. ... Ne5!!   (114Knps)
                5     0.10     -3   1. ... Ne5!!   (138Knps)
                5     0.10  -2.18   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 Bf7 3. Rh1 Qxh1 4.
                                    Rxh1 Bxh5 5. Bxh5
                5->   0.14  -2.18   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 Bf7 3. Rh1 Qxh1 4.
                                    Rxh1 Bxh5 5. Bxh5 (s=2)
                6     0.14  -2.18   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 Bf7 3. Rh1 Qxh1 4.
                                    Rxh1 Bxh5 5. Bxh5
                6->   0.15  -2.18   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 Bf7 3. Rh1 Qxh1 4.
                                    Rxh1 Bxh5 5. Bxh5 (s=2)
                7     0.19     -1   1. ... Ne5!!   (395Knps)
                7     0.20     -3   1. ... Ne5!!   (461Knps)
                7     0.20  -4.31   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 g6 3. Bg1 Bf5+ 4.
                                    Kb3 c4+ 5. Ka3 Be7+ 6. b4 Qxh5 7. Bxh5
                                    gxh5 8. Bxa7
                7->   0.21  -4.31   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 g6 3. Bg1 Bf5+ 4.
                                    Kb3 c4+ 5. Ka3 Be7+ 6. b4 Qxh5 7. Bxh5
                                    gxh5 8. Bxa7 (s=2)
                8     0.22  -4.46   1. ... Ne5 2. Qf4 Qxe2+ 3. Rd2 Qf3
                                    4. Rf1 Qxf4 5. Rxf4 Bg5 <HT>
                8->   0.25  -4.46   1. ... Ne5 2. Qf4 Qxe2+ 3. Rd2 Qf3
                                    4. Rf1 Qxf4 5. Rxf4 Bg5 <HT> (s=2)
                9     0.26     -1   1. ... Ne5!!   (1.8Mnps)
                9     0.34  -4.82   1. ... Ne5 2. Qf1 Bh3 3. Bg1 Bxf1 4.
                                    Bxh2 Bxe2 5. Rd5 Nf3
                9->   0.39  -4.82   1. ... Ne5 2. Qf1 Bh3 3. Bg1 Bxf1 4.
                                    Bxh2 Bxe2 5. Rd5 Nf3 (s=2)
               10     0.40  -4.78   1. ... Ne5 2. Qf1 Bh3 3. Bg1 Bxf1 4.
                                    Bxh2 Bxe2 5. Rd5 Nf3 6. Bf4
               10->   0.58  -4.78   1. ... Ne5 2. Qf1 Bh3 3. Bg1 Bxf1 4.
                                    Bxh2 Bxe2 5. Rd5 Nf3 6. Bf4 (s=3)
               11     0.75     +1   1. ... Ne5     (5.7Mnps)
               11     0.91  -4.34   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 g6 3. Rh1 Bf5+ 4.
                                    Kb3 c4+ 5. Ka3 Be7+ 6. b4 cxb3+ 7.
                                    Kxb3 Qxh5 8. Bxh5 Be6+ 9. Kc2 <HT>
                                    (s=2)
               11->   1.79  -4.34   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 g6 3. Rh1 Bf5+ 4.
                                    Kb3 c4+ 5. Ka3 Be7+ 6. b4 cxb3+ 7.
                                    Kxb3 Qxh5 8. Bxh5 Be6+ 9. Kc2 <HT>
                                    (s=2)
               12     1.91  -4.15   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 g6 3. Rh1 Bf5+ 4.
                                    Kb3 c4+ 5. Ka3 Be7+ 6. b4 cxb3+ 7.
                                    Kxb3 Qxh5 8. Bxh5 gxh5 9. Rag1+ Kf7
                                    10. Rxh5
               12->   3.77  -4.15   1. ... Ne5 2. Qh5 g6 3. Rh1 Bf5+ 4.
                                    Kb3 c4+ 5. Ka3 Be7+ 6. b4 cxb3+ 7.
                                    Kxb3 Qxh5 8. Bxh5 gxh5 9. Rag1+ Kf7
                                    10. Rxh5 (s=3)
               13     4.05     -1   1. ... Ne5!!   (8.2Mnps)
               13     5.46  -5.03   1. ... Ne5 2. Qf1 Bf5+ 3. Qxf5 Qxe2+
                                    4. Bd2 Nc4 5. Qd5+ Kh8 6. Kc1 Rd8 7.
                                    Qxc5 Nxd2 8. Rh1 Bf2 9. Qa3 (s=2)
               13->   8.49  -5.03   1. ... Ne5 2. Qf1 Bf5+ 3. Qxf5 Qxe2+
                                    4. Bd2 Nc4 5. Qd5+ Kh8 6. Kc1 Rd8 7.
                                    Qxc5 Nxd2 8. Rh1 Bf2 9. Qa3 (s=2)
               14    13.15  -5.28   1. ... Ne5 2. Bg1 Nxf3 3. Bxh2 Bf5+
                                    4. Bd3 Bxd3+ 5. Rxd3 Re2+ 6. Kb1 Rxh2
                                    7. a4 Ne5 8. Rd5 Nc4 9. axb5 Rxb2+
                                    10. Kc1 <HT>
               14->  20.37  -5.28   1. ... Ne5 2. Bg1 Nxf3 3. Bxh2 Bf5+
                                    4. Bd3 Bxd3+ 5. Rxd3 Re2+ 6. Kb1 Rxh2
                                    7. a4 Ne5 8. Rd5 Nc4 9. axb5 Rxb2+
                                    10. Kc1 <HT> (s=2)
               15    20.81  -5.19   1. ... Ne5 2. Bg1 Nxf3 3. Bxh2 Bf5+
                                    4. Bd3 Bxd3+ 5. Rxd3 Re2+ 6. Kb1 Rxh2
                                    7. a4 Nd2+ 8. Ka2 bxa4 9. Rd7 Nc4 10.
                                    Rb1 Re2 11. Rxa7
               15->  40.31  -5.19   1. ... Ne5 2. Bg1 Nxf3 3. Bxh2 Bf5+
                                    4. Bd3 Bxd3+ 5. Rxd3 Re2+ 6. Kb1 Rxh2
                                    7. a4 Nd2+ 8. Ka2 bxa4 9. Rd7 Nc4 10.
                                    Rb1 Re2 11. Rxa7 (s=5)
               16    43.49     -1   1. ... Ne5!!   (9.3Mnps)
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User avatar
Marek Soszynski
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 7:28 pm
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Marek Soszynski »

HIARCS 12.1 finds it instantaneously:

[-5.16] d=15 25...Ne5 26.Bg1 Nxf3 27.Bxh2 Bf5+ 28.Bd3 Re2+ 29.Kb1 Bxd3+ 30.Rxd3 Nd2+ 31.Rxd2 Rxd2 32.Bf4 Rd1+ 33.Bc1 Bg5 34.Kc2 Rxc1+ 35.Rxc1 Bxc1 36.Kxc1 Kf7 37.Kd2 Ke6 38.Ke3 Kf5 39.Kf3 a5 40.b3 (0:00.37) 29925kN
[-5.10] d=14 25...Ne5 26.Bg1 Nxf3 27.Bxh2 Bf5+ 28.Bd3 Re2+ 29.Kb1 Bxd3+ 30.Rxd3 Nd2+ 31.Rxd2 Rxd2 32.Bf4 Rd1+ 33.Bc1 Bg5 34.Kc2 Rxc1+ 35.Rxc1 Bxc1 36.Kxc1 Kf7 37.Kd2 Ke6 38.Ke3 Ke5 39.Kf3 Kd5 (0:00.13) 11366kN
[-5.14] d=13 25...Ne5 26.Bg1 Nxf3 27.Bxh2 Bf5+ 28.Bd3 Re2+ 29.Kb1 Bxd3+ 30.Rxd3 Nd2+ 31.Rxd2 Rxd2 (0:00.05) 4478kN
[-5.14] d=13 25...Ne5 26.Bg1 (0:00.04) 4074kN
[-5.39] d=12 25...Ne5 26.Bg1 Nxf3 27.Bxh2 Bf5+ 28.Bd3 Re2+ 29.Kb1 Bxd3+ 30.Rxd3 Rxh2 31.a3 Ne5 32.Rd1 Nc4 33.Ra2 Ne3 34.Rg1 Bf2 35.Rc1 g5 (0:00.02) 2000kN
[-5.30] d=11 25...Ne5 26.Bg1 Nxf3 27.Bxh2 Bf5+ 28.Bd3 Re2+ 29.Kb1 Bxd3+ 30.Rxd3 Rxh2 31.a3 Ne5 32.Rd1 Nc4 33.Ra2 Ne3 34.Rg1 Rd2 (0:00.01) 893kN
[-5.17] d=10 25...Ne5 26.Bg1 Nxf3 27.Bxh2 Bf5+ 28.Bd3 Re2+ 29.Kb1 Bxd3+ 30.Rxd3 Rxh2 31.a3 Ne5 32.Rd1 Nc4 (0:00.00) 419kN
[-5.10] d=10 25...Ne5 26.Bg1 Nxf3 27.Bxh2 Bf5+ 28.Bd3 Re2+ 29.Kb1 Bxd3+ 30.Rxd3 Rxh2 31.a3 Rf2 32.Rd7 Nd2+ 33.Ka2 Nc4 34.Rb1 (0:00.00) 388kN
Marek Soszynski
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Uri
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Uri »

It's interesting that the weaker engines find it immediately but the generally stronger Rybka 3 doesn't. I guess the immense chess knowledge processing of Rybka 3 is weakening it in some tactical positions and the position above is mostly a tactical position.
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Spock

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Spock »

Rybka 3 finds it instantly in infinite analysis here

11.01 0:01 -4.23 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 b4 10.cxb4 cxb4 11.a5 (168.279) 149
12.01 0:02 -4.11 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 b4 10.Rd5 Be7 11.cxb4 cxb4 12.Rb5 Bd6 13.Rc1 Nxb2 14.Kb3 (300.092) 149
13.01 0:03 -4.31++ 1...Ne5 (501.235) 165
13.01 0:04 -4.51++ 1...Ne5 (722.800) 167
13.01 0:06 -4.91++ 1...Ne5 (1.046.516) 171
13.01 0:08 -4.89 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 c4 (1.389.600) 175
14.01 0:12 -5.09++ 1...Ne5 (2.203.375) 183
14.01 0:34 -5.29++ 1...Ne5 (6.581.265) 196
14.01 0:57 -5.28 1...Ne5 (11.058.798) 197
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Uri
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Uri »

Spock wrote:Rybka 3 finds it instantly in infinite analysis here

11.01 0:01 -4.23 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 b4 10.cxb4 cxb4 11.a5 (168.279) 149
12.01 0:02 -4.11 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 b4 10.Rd5 Be7 11.cxb4 cxb4 12.Rb5 Bd6 13.Rc1 Nxb2 14.Kb3 (300.092) 149
13.01 0:03 -4.31++ 1...Ne5 (501.235) 165
13.01 0:04 -4.51++ 1...Ne5 (722.800) 167
13.01 0:06 -4.91++ 1...Ne5 (1.046.516) 171
13.01 0:08 -4.89 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 c4 (1.389.600) 175
14.01 0:12 -5.09++ 1...Ne5 (2.203.375) 183
14.01 0:34 -5.29++ 1...Ne5 (6.581.265) 196
14.01 0:57 -5.28 1...Ne5 (11.058.798) 197
On how many cores does it find it?
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Uri Blass
Posts: 10892
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Uri Blass »

Uri wrote:
Spock wrote:Rybka 3 finds it instantly in infinite analysis here

11.01 0:01 -4.23 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 b4 10.cxb4 cxb4 11.a5 (168.279) 149
12.01 0:02 -4.11 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 b4 10.Rd5 Be7 11.cxb4 cxb4 12.Rb5 Bd6 13.Rc1 Nxb2 14.Kb3 (300.092) 149
13.01 0:03 -4.31++ 1...Ne5 (501.235) 165
13.01 0:04 -4.51++ 1...Ne5 (722.800) 167
13.01 0:06 -4.91++ 1...Ne5 (1.046.516) 171
13.01 0:08 -4.89 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 c4 (1.389.600) 175
14.01 0:12 -5.09++ 1...Ne5 (2.203.375) 183
14.01 0:34 -5.29++ 1...Ne5 (6.581.265) 196
14.01 0:57 -5.28 1...Ne5 (11.058.798) 197
On how many cores does it find it?
one core is enough.

I do not have here more than one core.
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Spock

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Spock »

That was 4 cores, but it finds it instantly on 1 core as well

11.00 0:01 -3.96 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 bxa4 10.Rd5 Be7 11.Rd7 Bf8 12.Ka1 (79.432) 72
12.01 0:03 -4.03 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 bxa4 10.Rd5 Be7 11.Rd7 Bf8 12.Rf1 Rxb2+ 13.Ka1 Rd2 14.Rxa7 Nb6 (210.894) 70
13.01 0:05 -4.23++ 1...Ne5 (417.322) 75
13.01 0:08 -4.43++ 1...Ne5 (669.897) 77
13.01 0:11 -4.83++ 1...Ne5 (889.625) 79
13.01 0:15 -5.08 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Nd2+ 7.Rxd2 Rxd2 8.Bf4 Rd1+ 9.Bc1 Bg5 10.Kc2 Rxc1+ 11.Rxc1 Bxc1 12.Kxc1 Kf7 13.Kd2 g5 14.Ke3 h5 (1.176.170) 79
14.01 0:21 -5.08 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Nd2+ 7.Rxd2 Rxd2 8.Bf4 Rd1+ 9.Bc1 Bg5 10.Kc2 Rxc1+ 11.Rxc1 Bxc1 12.Kxc1 Kf7 13.Kd2 g5 14.Ke3 h5 (1.701.385) 81
15.01 1:31 -5.42 1...Ne5 (7.551.569) 84 11.00 0:01 -3.96 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 bxa4 10.Rd5 Be7 11.Rd7 Bf8 12.Ka1 (79.432) 72
12.01 0:03 -4.03 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Rxh2 7.a4 Nd2+ 8.Ka2 Nc4 9.Rb1 bxa4 10.Rd5 Be7 11.Rd7 Bf8 12.Rf1 Rxb2+ 13.Ka1 Rd2 14.Rxa7 Nb6 (210.894) 70
13.01 0:05 -4.23++ 1...Ne5 (417.322) 75
13.01 0:08 -4.43++ 1...Ne5 (669.897) 77
13.01 0:11 -4.83++ 1...Ne5 (889.625) 79
13.01 0:15 -5.08 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Nd2+ 7.Rxd2 Rxd2 8.Bf4 Rd1+ 9.Bc1 Bg5 10.Kc2 Rxc1+ 11.Rxc1 Bxc1 12.Kxc1 Kf7 13.Kd2 g5 14.Ke3 h5 (1.176.170) 79
14.01 0:21 -5.08 1...Ne5 2.Bg1 Nxf3 3.Bxh2 Bf5+ 4.Bd3 Re2+ 5.Kb1 Bxd3+ 6.Rxd3 Nd2+ 7.Rxd2 Rxd2 8.Bf4 Rd1+ 9.Bc1 Bg5 10.Kc2 Rxc1+ 11.Rxc1 Bxc1 12.Kxc1 Kf7 13.Kd2 g5 14.Ke3 h5 (1.701.385) 81
15.01 1:31 -5.42 1...Ne5 (7.551.569) 84
16.01 3:28 -5.66 1...Ne5 (17.550.787) 86
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Uri
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Uri »

Spock wrote:That was 4 cores, but it finds it instantly on 1 core as well
Perhaps it has the results from the 4 cores already stored in memory so it also shows Ne5 also on the single core. Or maybe you use a different engine setup than me.

Otherwise I can't explain why my Rybka 3 doesn't find it. Any idea?
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Spock

Re: Does any engine find Ne5 in this position?

Post by Spock »

Uri wrote:
Spock wrote:That was 4 cores, but it finds it instantly on 1 core as well
Perhaps it has the results from the 4 cores already stored in memory so it also shows Ne5 also on the single core.
No, the machine had in fact been re-booted between the two runs
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