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Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:32 pm
by main line
Jouni wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:00 pm
I only looked so far for TCEC opening games. AO seems to be sometimes like patzer and loses in 22 moves to outdated SF :o .

And what is this: (Who is patzer here)

http://view.chessbase.com/cbreader/2018 ... 26031.html

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:48 pm
by jhellis3
Well, I am most amused..... :D

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 pm
by matthewlai
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:48 pm
Were other settings ever considered, notably 0.5 or parent?
Yes and 0 seems to work best. Assumption being that most positions have 1 or at most a few good moves. All other moves are akin to passing or worse. In most equal-ish positions, passing will give the opponent a big advantage.

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:25 pm
by Gian-Carlo Pascutto
matthewlai wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 pm
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:48 pm
Were other settings ever considered, notably 0.5 or parent?
Yes and 0 seems to work best. Assumption being that most positions have 1 or at most a few good moves. All other moves are akin to passing or worse. In most equal-ish positions, passing will give the opponent a big advantage.
I think this ends up explaining why FPU reductions as implemented by both LZ and lc0 work though :-)

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 am
by glennsamuel32
Hello Matthew, nice to see you back after so long !!

Does this mean Giraffe will get some updates in the future ? :D

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:57 am
by Dann Corbit
glennsamuel32 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 am
Hello Matthew, nice to see you back after so long !!

Does this mean Giraffe will get some updates in the future ? :D
I think giraffe is called "AlphaZero" or "DeepMind" now.

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:17 am
by matthewlai
glennsamuel32 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 am
Hello Matthew, nice to see you back after so long !!

Does this mean Giraffe will get some updates in the future ? :D
Thanks!

Afraid not! AlphaZero is taking up all my time these days, and it's a very exciting project with lots of uncharted territory ahead :). AlphaZero is basically what I ever wanted Giraffe to become... and then a lot more. I have never been this excited about computer chess my whole life.

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:59 am
by Albert Silver
matthewlai wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:17 am
glennsamuel32 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 am
Hello Matthew, nice to see you back after so long !!

Does this mean Giraffe will get some updates in the future ? :D
Thanks!

Afraid not! AlphaZero is taking up all my time these days, and it's a very exciting project with lots of uncharted territory ahead :). AlphaZero is basically what I ever wanted Giraffe to become... and then a lot more. I have never been this excited about computer chess my whole life.
Warmest congrats. I find that heartwarming to the extreme. :D :D :D

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:42 am
by yanquis1972
Laskos wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:47 pm
OneTrickPony wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:13 am

I am not convinced the newest SF would win against it. The ELO is calculated against a pool of similar engines. It's not clear if 50 or 100 ELO more against this pool is equal to 50-100 ELO more against an opponent of a different type.
While that's true, Lc0 with the best nets on my powerful GPU and average CPU ("Leela Ratio" of say 2.5) beats heavily SF8, but loses slightly to SF10, from regular openings. Against SF8, it's similar to what happens in this paper. My guess is that this particular "old" A0 in those TCEC conditions is somewhat weaker than SF10.
Lc0 needs a "Leela Ratio" of 2.5 to have similar results to A0 ("Leela Ratio" 1 by definition), so Lc0 (with the best nets) is still lagging pretty significantly behind A0.
In some games it becomes apparent that they are fairly similar in playing style, strengths and weaknesses.
but have you tried the deepmind openings? it seems clear that the Zeros lose elo playing prescribed openings. Test30 already has excellent results against SF10 in my tests so far (https://lichess.org/study/FHjaPySh) i would expect the strongest test10 net to score better, but i believe it's gotten very close.

Re: Alphazero news

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:27 am
by glennsamuel32
Matthew, could you divulge the size of the network file that A0 used ?