Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.
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rightrook
- Posts: 1452
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by rightrook » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:10 pm
[D]r1bb1r1k/2qn2pp/ppp2p2/2P2P2/3PQ3/PB1N1R2/1P1B2PP/4R1K1 w - - 0 1
I was able to set up this same position on the 8X10 board, and
Gothic Vortex found ...Rh3....in 3 seconds!
That is faster than the Fidelity Mach 3 computer...that took 33 seconds to find Rh3.
RISC takes 70 sec.
and Novag Scorpio does not find it at all....
If black plays......g7-g5
White mates with...Qe8!
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smrf
- Posts: 484
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- Location: Klein-Gerau, Germany
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Contact:
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by smrf » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:38 pm
It seems not to be that difficult ... SMIRF (playing 10x8 and 8x8 without any 'tricks') found:
00:39.0 (09.01=) +M~??? 1.Rh3 (Qh4) g5 2.Qe8 Qxh2+ 3.Rxh2 Bc7 4.Rh5 bxc5 5.dxc5 Be5
00:03.2 (09.01+) +53.67 1.Rh3 (Qh4) g5 2.Qe8 Qxh2+ 3.Rxh2 Bc7 4.Rh5 bxc5 5.dxc5 Be5
00:03.0 (09.01+) +16.37 1.Rh3 (Qh4) g5 2.Qe8 Qxh2+ 3.Rxh2 Bc7 4.Rh5 bxc5 5.dxc5 Be5
00:02.2 (09.01+) +13.71 1.Rh3 (Qh4) g5 2.Qe8 Qxh2+ 3.Rxh2 Bc7 4.Rh5 bxc5 5.dxc5 Be5
00:02.1 (09.01+) +12.37 1.Rh3 (Qh4) g5 2.Qe8 Qxh2+ 3.Rxh2 Bc7 4.Rh5 bxc5 5.dxc5 Be5
00:01.8 (08.03=) +11.93 1.Rh3 (Qh4) g5 2.Qe8 Qxh2+ 3.Rxh2 Bc7 4.Rh5 bxc5 5.dxc5 Bh2+
00:01.7 (08.03+) +10.96 1.Rh3 (Qh4) g5 2.Qe8 Qxh2+ 3.Rxh2 Rxe8 4.Rxe8+ Nf8 5.Rxf8+ Kg7 6.Rg8#
00:01.6 (08.03+) +9.109 1.Rh3 (Qh4) g5 2.Qe8 Qxh2+ 3.Rxh2 Rxe8 4.Rxe8+ Nf8 5.Rxf8+ Kg7 6.Rg8#
00:01.5 (08.01=) +9.107 1.Qh4 (Nf4) g5 2.fxg6 Nxc5 3.Bf7 Qxf7 4.gxf7 Nxd3 5.Rxd3 Bf5 6.Bh6
00:01.4 (08.01+) +8.586 1.Qh4 (Nf4) g5 2.fxg6 Nxc5 3.Bf7 Rxf7 4.Re8+ Rf8 5.Rxf8+ Kg7 6.Qh6#
00:01.2 (07.17=) +7.350 1.Qh4 (Nf4) g5 2.fxg6 Nxc5 3.Bf7 Rxf7 4.Re8+ Rf8 5.Rxf8+ Kg7 6.Qh6#
00:00.9 (07.01=) +7.350 1.Qh4 (=/=) g5 2.fxg6 Nxc5 3.Bf7 Rxf7 4.Re8+ Rf8 5.Rxf8+ Kg7 6.Qh6#
00:00.9 (07.01+) +7.275 1.Qh4 (=/=) g5 2.fxg6 Nxc5 3.Bf7 Rxf7 4.Re8+ Rf8 5.Rxf8+ Kg7 6.Qh6#
00:00.7 (06.01=) +6.832 1.Qh4 (=/=) g5 2.fxg6 Nxc5 3.dxc5 Ra7 4.Bf7
00:00.4 (05.01=) +6.832 1.Qh4 (Rh3) g5 2.fxg6 Nxc5 3.dxc5 Ra7 4.Bg8
00:00.2 (03.04=) +6.254 1.Qh4 (Rh3) g5 2.Qxh7+ Kxh7 3.Bxg5
00:00.0 (03.04+) +4.480 1.Qh4 (Rh3) Qe5 2.cxb6 Qxe1+ 3.Bxe1 Bxb6
00:00.0 (02.33=) +4.479 1.Rh3 (Rg3) h6 2.Bg8
(using a slow Parallels Vista on an iMac)
Regards, Reinhard.
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George Tsavdaris
- Posts: 1624
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:35 am
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by George Tsavdaris » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:00 pm
rightrook wrote:[D]r1bb1r1k/2qn2pp/ppp2p2/2P2P2/3PQ3/PB1N1R2/1P1B2PP/4R1K1 w - - 0 1
I was able to set up this same position on the 8X10 board, and
Gothic Vortex found ...Rh3....in 3 seconds!
That is faster than the Fidelity Mach 3 computer...that took 33 seconds to find Rh3.
RISC takes 70 sec.
and Novag Scorpio does not find it at all....
If black plays......g7-g5
White mates with...Qe8!
This is not anything spectacular.
The old Deep Junior 8.ZX finds it in 2 seconds and says it is a mate in 6!
Analysis by Deep Junior 8.ZX:
1.Nd3-f4 h7-h6 2.Qe4-e8 Kh8-h7 3.Qe8-g6+ Kh7-h8 4.Nf4-e6 Nd7-e5 5.Ne6xc7 Ne5xf3+ 6.g2xf3 Bd8xc7
+- (6.06) Depth: 9 00:00:00 394kN
1.Nd3-f4!
+- (6.36) Depth: 12 00:00:01 1323kN
1.Nd3-f4 h7-h6 2.Nf4-g6+ Kh8-h7 3.Ng6xf8+ Nd7xf8 4.Qe4-e8 Bc8-e6 5.f5xe6 Qc7xh2+ 6.Kg1xh2 Bd8-c7+ 7.Bd2-f4 Bc7xf4+ 8.Rf3xf4 Ra8xe8 9.c5xb6
+- (8.15) Depth: 12 00:00:02 3167kN
1.Rf3-h3!
+- (8.16) Depth: 12 00:00:02 3597kN
1.Rf3-h3 Qc7-g3 2.h2xg3 h7-h6 3.Bd2xh6 Kh8-h7
+- (13.44) Depth: 12 00:00:03 3597kN
1.Rf3-h3!
+- (13.74) Depth: 15 00:00:04 6648kN
1.Rf3-h3 Qc7-g3 2.h2xg3 h7-h6 3.Bd2xh6 g7xh6 4.Rh3xh6+ Kh8-g7 5.Rh6-g6+ Kg7-h8 6.Qe4-h4#
+- (#6) Depth: 15 00:00:09 16601kN
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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GothicChessInventor
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by GothicChessInventor » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:13 pm
George Tsavdaris wrote:
This is not anything spectacular.
The old Deep Junior 8.ZX finds it in 2 seconds and says it is a mate in 6!
Analysis by Deep Junior 8.ZX:
1.Nd3-f4 h7-h6 2.Qe4-e8 Kh8-h7 3.Qe8-g6+ Kh7-h8 4.Nf4-e6 Nd7-e5 5.Ne6xc7 Ne5xf3+ 6.g2xf3 Bd8xc7
+- (6.06) Depth: 9 00:00:00 394kN
1.Nd3-f4!
+- (6.36) Depth: 12 00:00:01 1323kN
1.Nd3-f4 h7-h6 2.Nf4-g6+ Kh8-h7 3.Ng6xf8+ Nd7xf8 4.Qe4-e8 Bc8-e6 5.f5xe6 Qc7xh2+ 6.Kg1xh2 Bd8-c7+ 7.Bd2-f4 Bc7xf4+ 8.Rf3xf4 Ra8xe8 9.c5xb6
+- (8.15) Depth: 12 00:00:02 3167kN
1.Rf3-h3!
+- (8.16) Depth: 12 00:00:02 3597kN
1.Rf3-h3 Qc7-g3 2.h2xg3 h7-h6 3.Bd2xh6 Kh8-h7
+- (13.44) Depth: 12 00:00:03 3597kN
1.Rf3-h3!
+- (13.74) Depth: 15 00:00:04 6648kN
1.Rf3-h3 Qc7-g3 2.h2xg3 h7-h6 3.Bd2xh6 g7xh6 4.Rh3xh6+ Kh8-g7 5.Rh6-g6+ Kg7-h8 6.Qe4-h4#
+- (#6) Depth: 15 00:00:09 16601kN
George, I think you are missing a few details here which are very important.
1. Gothic Vortex is a 32-bit engine that manipulates an 80-bit emulator to simulate the 80-square board. Therefore, it must be slower than any dedicated 8x8 chess software.
2. He does not have the strongest version of the program. In fact, the public version of Vortex has part of its IQ and search functions disabled.
3. Vortex is largely based on crafty, so crafty as a dedicated 64-bit chess engine should always find such solitions more expediently!
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George Tsavdaris
- Posts: 1624
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:35 am
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by George Tsavdaris » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:29 pm
GothicChessInventor wrote:
George, I think you are missing a few details here which are very important.
1. Gothic Vortex is a 32-bit engine that manipulates an 80-bit emulator to simulate the 80-square board. Therefore, it must be slower than any dedicated 8x8 chess software.
2. He does not have the strongest version of the program. In fact, the public version of Vortex has part of its IQ and search functions disabled.
3. Vortex is largely based on crafty, so crafty as a dedicated 64-bit chess engine should always find such solitions more expediently!
Yes of course, testing Gothic Vortex for Chess positions is not logical and it's more or less pointless....
But i was referring to the test position that is not a good one since white wins easily, even if you remove white's d2-Bishop, white still wins!
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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rightrook
- Posts: 1452
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:45 pm
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by rightrook » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:43 pm
Hi...Well, I was really comparing it to some of my test positions for my dedicated chess computerors...
And since I posted that position, I have found out that it is doing excellent...finding difficult moves that other programs require much time to find..
.thanks anyway...
Robert
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GothicChessInventor
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by GothicChessInventor » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:30 am
rightrook wrote:Hi...Well, I was really comparing it to some of my test positions for my dedicated chess computerors...
And since I posted that position, I have found out that it is doing excellent...finding difficult moves that other programs require much time to find..
.thanks anyway...
Robert
The only thing that I did radically different to Crafty was to use my new piece values derived from my 80-square research:
http://www.GothicChess.com/80.pdf
I don't know what else could have Vortex outperform the software it was based on. This just seems counterintuitive to me.
Maybe "chess is easy" to Vortex now since it has been "working out" with an 80-square board with 2 new piece types
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rightrook
- Posts: 1452
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:45 pm
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by rightrook » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:51 am
Hi Ed...
I am still testing your Cothic Vortex Copper
Level one found a mate in 9...only 1 or 2 sec..... and then announced mate in 8 on the next move.......
Can the "Copper" version time be increased to about 10 sec.?
Does it have a "level two"...?
Keep up the good work!
regards
Robert
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GothicChessInventor
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by GothicChessInventor » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:45 am
rightrook wrote:Hi Ed...
I am still testing your Cothic Vortex Copper
Level one found a mate in 9...only 1 or 2 sec..... and then announced mate in 8 on the next move.......
Can the "Copper" version time be increased to about 10 sec.?
Does it have a "level two"...?
Keep up the good work!
regards
Robert
Vortex Copper is ancient history compared to the new product line, called Vortex Nuclear.
After the 2007 Championship, I will make a version of Nuclear available for download. It will come with 4-piece tablebases and up to 30 seconds per move thinking time. But, it is a 200 MB download!
Anyone who defeats Nuclear will have their name on the website, forever, provided they send me their game and their claim is true.
Look for it in early 2008.
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rightrook
- Posts: 1452
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:45 pm
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by rightrook » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:33 pm
OK..thanks...thanks good news..will be watching for it..
regards,
Robert
