ShashChess

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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peter
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: ShashChess

Post by peter » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:16 am

amchess wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:39 pm
ShashChess 4.0 released
https://github.com/amchess/ShashChess/releases/tag/4.0
Thanks a lot, Andrea, for continuing your work.
Just one question: UCI- Options now have Analysis Contempt to be switched of and on for each side, but I don't see Contempt itself to be set. Does that mean, Shashin- Options checked work in Analysis Mode only if Analysis Contempt is checked for any or both sides too, or also with AC off?
Does it depend?
Peter.

Dariusz
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:08 am
Location: Poland

Re: ShashChess

Post by Dariusz » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:59 am

Below macOS exec.
Thx for new version :)
https://www.solidfiles.com/v/QdkBPxgr2gXmM
Regards, Dariusz

maxdeg
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: ShashChess

Post by maxdeg » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:42 am

Dariusz wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:59 am
Below macOS exec.
Thx for new version :)
https://www.solidfiles.com/v/QdkBPxgr2gXmM
+1
:D

amchess
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Re: ShashChess

Post by amchess » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:14 pm

peter wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:16 am
amchess wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:39 pm
ShashChess 4.0 released
https://github.com/amchess/ShashChess/releases/tag/4.0
Thanks a lot, Andrea, for continuing your work.
Just one question: UCI- Options now have Analysis Contempt to be switched of and on for each side, but I don't see Contempt itself to be set. Does that mean, Shashin- Options checked work in Analysis Mode only if Analysis Contempt is checked for any or both sides too, or also with AC off?
Does it depend?
The contempt value is implicitly initialized by Shashin's options.
Based on our tests, the best values are the following, as you can see in file types.h:
default, capablanca,tal-petrosian, tal-capablanca-petrosian -> 12
petrosian->-6
capablanca-petrosian->3
tal-capablanca->21
tal->30

In general, this is also, in my opinion the interest of Shashin's theory: replace too technical uci options (like, for example, also null move, lmr, etc), with more meaningful and user friendly and flexible ones:
numerical values should be for developers/testers, not for users!

amchess
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Re: ShashChess

Post by amchess » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:15 pm

maxdeg wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:42 am
Dariusz wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:59 am
Below macOS exec.
Thx for new version :)
https://www.solidfiles.com/v/QdkBPxgr2gXmM
+1
:D
Many thanks!
I added it.
Can you send me a PM with your first and last name?
So, I can add you in the acknowledgement section of the readme file.
Andrea

peter
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: ShashChess

Post by peter » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:52 pm

amchess wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:14 pm
numerical values should be for developers/testers, not for users!
Thanks again, for your prompt answer too.

By myself I'm not as much interested in Elo as in Analysis Mode and in thematic games and, from certain positions of interest, played out lines.

Guess I already found out how to configure ShashChess4 for Analysis Mode and "biased" game-playing postion- dependent, having already some experience with ShashChess3.

Yet greatest fun for me anyhow is always to find best settings of engines for a certain single position.
:)

BTW notice: strength in chess (of engines and of humans) is always postion- dependent anyhow, there isn't something like "overall playing strength" in reality, at least not in an overall reproducibly testable way.

Elo, measured in the way usable for engines today, the better the engines get, is more and more positional testing of strength at bookless game- playing only, even if started from positions seemingly only more or less near to the character of the very first starting position of chess itself.

The more modern engines have positions near to very first starting position already in hash in a few seconds of computing or at once in NN at starting their rating- games, even almost as much as from the one and only real unique Initial Position, the more they get selected Elo- wise by game- playing of that kind only, for their rating against other engines and against themselves.

That's the real dead end street of engine- development by rating measured in Elo only, as we are used to test engines, and it's not a numeric problem, you can choose any other measurement instead of Elo as well, it's a problem of testing- method and testing- positions (starting positions for the rating games).
Another word of principally, even if not fully the same meaning, to me is "the draw problem".
Peter.

amchess
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Re: ShashChess

Post by amchess » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:40 pm

I updated executables because of a problem with Move Overhead uci option.
I added it because the default value (30) is good for Linux, not for windows, especially for slow guis.
So, for windows, based on my tests, it's better to set it at 100, for game play.
The windows and Linux versions now are updated.
I wait for an update of Android and Mac.
Best regards and sorry for the inconvenience: I'm an ubuntu fan...
Andrea

User avatar
Marek Soszynski
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 5:28 pm
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: ShashChess

Post by Marek Soszynski » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:32 am

It's fun to run 3 separate instances at the same time: Capa, Petr, and Tal.

However, when Analysis Contempt is set to "Both", the Petr score is 1 or 2 pawns higher than the others, even at the start.
Marek Soszynski

amchess
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Re: ShashChess

Post by amchess » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:41 am

The Android executables have been updated.
I wait for mac version.

amchess
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Re: ShashChess

Post by amchess » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:33 am

Now all executables are good

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