TOGA IV with Rebel 14.2 NNUE evaluation

[Rebel]

• TOGA IV now with Rebel 14.2 NNUE evaluation.
• Toga IV 1.1 is about 45 elo stronger than Rebel 14.2 and above that offers you:
• Multiple threading up to 64 threads;
• MultiPV up to 10 moves.

• TOGA IV 1.1 earned a rating of 3323 on the Gambit Rating List.

• Offered to you in cooperation with Chris Whittington.

http://rebel13.nl/windows/rebel-14.html#other

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hello Ed,

each day a new Toga!
Not easy to keep things in perspective!

You are speaking from Rebel 14.2 but after all I understand Rebel 14.2 is Toga also.

So we have:

Toga IV 1.1 with NN by yourself
Toga II (I believe) with NN by yourself, called Rebel 14.0 / Rebel 14.1 & Rebel 14.2.

Confuzius ...
Senpai 1.0 / 2.0 is a long time available.
I think the next you do is Rebel 14.3 (Senpai 1.0) with your NN?
Rebel 14.4 (Senpai 2.0) with your NN?

Furthermore, 4 more / other versions are available ...

Toga II (I believe) with NN files by Chris Whittington.
This 4 Toga versions called Chess System Tal?

Hm ...
What should I test?

Toga is also available with NN files by Dietrich Kappe a long time!
At the moment I have Rebel / Toga v14.1 in my still running tournament.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Note:
We all know that the programming Fabien LETOUZEY do for us is fantastic.
Sources are free available.

But in detail the programs (Fruit and Senpai) by Fabien LETOUZEY have a very big problem.
Same Rybka have in the past ...

King safty with many pieces is really not good!

To create now in 30 days:

- Rebel 14.0
- Rebel 14.1
- Rebel 14.2
- Toga IV with Rebel 14.2 NN
- Toga IV with Rebel 14.1 NN
- 4 different version called Chess System Tal ... Toga X with NN files by Chris Whittington

= 9 "different" versions and all with the bad king safty by Fruit / Toga?

That is not very interesting to have all that in a Rating List more times!

The question is ...
Which of all this version you prefer for testing?
And will be in the next days again a new version available (Senpai with your NN for an example).

Best
Frank

[Carlos777]

Hi Frank,

I am confused too. I only test one engine per author. So, I am not sure what to do about Toga, last time I used Dark Toga with Dietrich Kappe NN, but I guess for my upcoming tournament, I would use this Toga?

Also, I stop testing ProDeo in favor of Rebel NN, but I am not sure what to do with Rebel and ChessSystemTal NN, should I use it as another engine by Chris Whittington?

I read your and others opinions about this matter.

Regards,
Carlos

[Rebel]

Hello Ed,

each day a new Toga!

I admit, I am bit overeager for my age

Not easy to keep things in perspective!

Alright, here is the perspective:

Use Rebel 14.2 for SP testing
Use Toga for MP testing.

[Rebel]

Note:
We all know that the programming Fabien LETOUZEY do for us is fantastic.
Sources are free available.

But in detail the programs (Fruit and Senpai) by Fabien LETOUZEY have a very big problem.
Same Rybka have in the past ...

King safty with many pieces is really not good!

Frank, understand that NNUE evaluation replaces all of the HCE evaluation. And NNUE evaluation is based on Benjamin, the gambit version of ProDeo. NNUE evaluation has made a blueprint of the HCE evaluation of Benjamin only much stronger. So Rebel 14.2 and Toga IV play like Benjamin and there is no evaluation trace left of Fruit or Toga.

And regarding king safety, it's about the strongest point, have a look at some of the games.

https://prodeo.actieforum.com/t706-aggr ... 8-and-v3-9

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Ed,

OK, situation is more clear!
For my "run-3" Rebel 14.2 NN ...

Normally strength / weaknesses with or without NN files in earlier mid-games = around the same!
Good examples are Booot or Wasp and most of other engines.

OK, let me look what I have for Rebel 14.1:

After 920 of 1200 games ...
Lost games (below 60 moves): 8
Won games (below 60 moves): 14 (13x with white pieces ... can be random, Xiphos 0.6 comes with such stats ... much more short won games with white pieces).

Seems you are right!
Thanks for your explanation!

Short-Game stats are very strong for the Elo Rebel 14.1 NN have !!!



Dark Toga 1.1 NN stats ... (run-1)
Lost games (below 60 moves): 33
Won games (below 60 moves): 8

All the Fruit / Toga / Senpai versions have all the time the problem with to many fast lost games.

OK, OK ... Rebel is on the way.
Rebel 14.2 NN for "run-3".

Go Rebel go ...

Best
Frank

Code: Select all

February 03rd, 2022
Short games statistic, v1.3
After round 30 out of 30 =  1.200 games per engine, final results for run-1

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1.007 of 24.600 = 4,093% : Miniatures, mate below 60 moves
  983 of 24.600 = 3,995% : Fast draws below 40 moves

                                 won59 lost59 draw39        won59w won59b lost59w lost59b
01. Dragon 2.6 NN (Komodo)         104      0     28            82     22       0       0
02. Stockfish 311221 NN dev        104      0     30            65     39       0       0
03. Revenge 2.0 NN                  51      1     49            37     14       0       1
04. SlowChess Blitz 2.8 NN          45      0     29            28     17       0       0
05. Fire 8 MC.3 NN                  43      0     38            34      9       0       0
06. Arasan 23.2 NN                  39      1     56            30      9       1       0
07. Ethereal 13.25 NN               37      3     36            26     11       0       3
08. Berserk 8.5.1 NN                36      3     55            22     14       0       3
09. Igel 3.0.10 NN                  36     12     72            28      8       2      10
10. RubiChess 2021 NN               35      1     52            24     11       0       1
11. Booot 6.5                       35      7     61            26      9       2       5
12. Rodent 1.0 NN                   33      5     82            26      7       1       4
13. Lc0 0.28.2 CPU                  30     40     67            24      6       7      33
14. Schooner 2.2 XB                 29     14     44            18     11       3      11
15. rofChade 2.313 NN dev           28      3     52            21      7       0       3
16. Wasp 5.20 NN                    25      6     68            20      5       1       5
17. Weiss 2.0                       23     10     31            14      9       1       9
18. Xiphos 0.6                      20     10     53            16      4       2       8
19. Nemorino 6.09 NN dev            20     12     43            14      6       0      12
20. Fritz 18 (Ginkgo)               19     26     30            12      7       5      21
21. Koivisto 7.9 NN                 17     11     36            14      3       1      10
22. DanaSah 9.0 NN                  17     36     48            15      2      13      23
23. Minic 3.17 NN                   17     43     53            12      5       6      37
24. Laser 1.7                       16     22     38            12      4       6      16
25. Clover 2.4                      15     22     57            12      3       5      17
26. Chiron 5                        14     33     37            11      3      10      23
27. Andscacs 0.95.123 dev           14     34     51            10      4      10      24
28. Defenchess 2.3 dev              13     18     48            10      3       2      16
29. Seer 2.4.0 NN                   11     10     56             9      2       2       8
30. Fizbo 2.0                       11     21     49             6      5       4      17
31. Wasp 4.50                       10     12     34             7      3       3       9
32. Shredder 13                     10     34     47             8      2       9      25
33. GullChess 3.0 Sy                10     67     32             9      1      16      51
34. Zahak 9.0                        9     71     42             9      0      38      33
35. Dark Toga 1.1 NN                 8     33     43             7      1       5      28
36. Marvin 5.2.0 NN                  7     21     46             5      2       8      13
37. Winter 0.9                       6     85     28             2      4      26      59
38. Orion 0.8 NN                     5     74     59             5      0      25      49
39. Halogen 10 NN                    3     71     60             2      1      23      48
40. Stash 32                         1     55     41             1      0      18      37
41. Gogobello 3.0 NN                 1     80     85             0      1      19      61

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  262 of 24.600 = 1,065% : Miniatures, mate below 50 moves
  323 of 24.600 = 1,313% : Fast draws below 30 moves

                                 won49 lost49 draw29        won49w won49b lost49w lost49b
01. Dragon 2.6 NN (Komodo)          36      0      6            27      9       0       0
02. Stockfish 311221 NN dev         32      0     14            21     11       0       0
03. Revenge 2.0 NN                  13      0     17            10      3       0       0
04. Fire 8 MC.3 NN                  11      0     11             9      2       0       0
05. Booot 6.5                       11      0     24             7      4       0       0
06. SlowChess Blitz 2.8 NN          10      0     14             9      1       0       0
07. Lc0 0.28.2 CPU                   9     12     15             8      1       2      10
08. rofChade 2.313 NN dev            8      0     20             6      2       0       0
09. Wasp 5.20 NN                     8      1     24             8      0       0       1
10. Rodent 1.0 NN                    8      1     31             6      2       0       1
11. Weiss 2.0                        8      3     18             4      4       0       3
12. Igel 3.0.10 NN                   8      3     22             4      4       1       2
13. RubiChess 2021 NN                7      0     15             5      2       0       0
14. Xiphos 0.6                       7      1     22             5      2       1       0
15. Seer 2.4.0 NN                    7      3     18             6      1       1       2
16. Ethereal 13.25 NN                6      0     18             4      2       0       0
17. Defenchess 2.3 dev               6      2     21             5      1       0       2
18. Fritz 18 (Ginkgo)                6     12     11             4      2       4       8
19. Berserk 8.5.1 NN                 5      0     16             5      0       0       0
20. Arasan 23.2 NN                   5      1     13             5      0       1       0
21. Laser 1.7                        5      5     11             3      2       0       5
22. DanaSah 9.0 NN                   5     10     16             5      0       5       5
23. Andscacs 0.95.123 dev            4      5     16             2      2       0       5
24. Chiron 5                         4      8      9             3      1       4       4
25. GullChess 3.0 Sy                 4     20     13             3      1       2      18
26. Wasp 4.50                        3      0      9             2      1       0       0
27. Fizbo 2.0                        3      2     15             2      1       1       1
28. Nemorino 6.09 NN dev             3      4     14             2      1       0       4
29. Dark Toga 1.1 NN                 3      6     11             2      1       1       5
30. Minic 3.17 NN                    3     11     14             2      1       1      10
31. Winter 0.9                       3     20      4             2      1       5      15
32. Schooner 2.2 XB                  2      2     11             1      1       0       2
33. Clover 2.4                       2      3     16             2      0       2       1
34. Shredder 13                      2      4     11             2      0       0       4
35. Marvin 5.2.0 NN                  1      5     14             0      1       2       3
36. Koivisto 7.9 NN                  1      7     13             1      0       1       6
37. Orion 0.8 NN                     1     17     19             1      0       4      13
38. Halogen 10 NN                    1     24     15             1      0       6      18
39. Zahak 9.0                        1     27     13             1      0      12      15
40. Stash 32                         0     13     19             0      0       5       8
41. Gogobello 3.0 NN                 0     30     33             0      0       5      25

[matejst]

Frank,

I advise you to turn off hash pruning in Toga. That's the cause of many tactical oversights in Toga.

[I see now that Ed turned off this possibility in the new Toga -- there's no more Hash Pruning. Otherwise, I advise you to test Toga IV 1.1 as the new Rebel for several reasons: Ed has implemented the NN evaluation, but he has also already improved the search and the code the way he did with Rebel 14.1/14.2, Anyway, for me, it is legitimately a new "Rebel 14.2 MP". But what do I know.]

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Boban,

or both?
The new Toga and Rebel 14.2?
In exceptional circumstances we must be more flexible.

Unfortunately, in the next weeks I have not many time for chess.
"run-3" with many changes is good for me (lesser work).

Thanks for your information around Toga.
New for me!

Best
Frank

[Werewolf]

Hello Ed,

each day a new Toga!

I admit, I am bit overeager for my age

Not easy to keep things in perspective!

Alright, here is the perspective:

Use Rebel 14.2 for SP testing
Use Toga for MP testing.

So what's CSTal-NNUE 1.26 then? (no. 5 on the gambit rating list)