Suppose we change the rules and say that in order to win it is enough for white to get material advantage even if white is objectively losing
in chess or to win in chess in the normal way.
Can white force a win?
material advantage needs to be after the opponent move to prevent winning by lines like 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nc6 3.Qxf7+
If white cannot force a win it means that black can practically draw with no sacrifices.
If white can force a win then the next question is if white can force a win when we decide that in order to win white needs to keep the material advantage for x moves for x=2,3,4...
Keeping the material advantage for 2 moves means that white has the material advanges not only after some black's move but also after black's next move.
If the answer is no for some small x it means that you do not need to make a positional sacrifice to draw(a sacrifice when you get back the material in a small number of moves is a tactical sacrifice)
Of course it is possible to ask the same question for black.
Do we need to sacrifice to get a draw in chess?
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Uri Blass
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towforce
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Re: Do we need to sacrifice to get a draw in chess?
I'm not quite sure what's being asked here, but in today's world, we have MASSIVE opening books, and engines like Stockfish that can play nearly as well without an opening book.
Still, after 70 years of computer analysis (and thousands of years of human analysis), no way has been found to get any material advantage out of the opening. It's very likely that there is no way.
Still, after 70 years of computer analysis (and thousands of years of human analysis), no way has been found to get any material advantage out of the opening. It's very likely that there is no way.
Human chess is partly about tactics and strategy, but mostly about memory
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Uri Blass
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Re: Do we need to sacrifice to get a draw in chess?
Engines do not search for getting material advantage and maybe there is some forced way to get it with the price of losing the game later so engines do not choose it.towforce wrote: ↑Mon Dec 29, 2025 12:15 am I'm not quite sure what's being asked here, but in today's world, we have MASSIVE opening books, and engines like Stockfish that can play nearly as well without an opening book.
Still, after 70 years of computer analysis (and thousands of years of human analysis), no way has been found to get any material advantage out of the opening. It's very likely that there is no way.
I think it may be interesting for humans if they can simply never sacrifice regardless of what the opponent is going to play and still get at least a draw in every game.
I guess it is easier to find based on pgn of strong humans if there are strong humans who never sacrifice material in games that they win or draw.