The Sorcerer's Apprentice

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Here is a game played by Bronstein in 1956.

[pgn][Event "Olympiad"]
[Site "Moscow URS"]
[Date "1956.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "5"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "David Bronstein"]
[Black "Ernst Rojahn"]
[ECO "C58"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "75"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. d3 h6
7. Nf3 e4 8. dxe4 Nxc4 9. Qd4 Nb6 10. c4 c5 11. Qd3 Bg4
12. Nbd2 Be7 13. O-O O-O 14. Ne5 Bh5 15. b3 Nbd7 16. Bb2 Nxe5
17. Bxe5 Nd7 18. Bc3 Bf6 19. Rae1 Bxc3 20. Qxc3 Qf6 21. e5 Qf5
22. f4 Bg6 23. Ne4 Rab8 24. Qf3 Bh7 25. g4 Qg6 26. f5 Qb6
27. Qg3 f6 28. e6 Ne5 29. h4 Kh8 30. g5 Rbc8 31. Kh1 Qd8
32. g6 Bxg6 33. fxg6 b5 34. d6 Qb6 35. d7 Nxd7 36. exd7 Rcd8
37. Nxf6 Qc6+ 38. Qg2 1-0

[/pgn]

Of course, Bronstein was not simply a tactical genius, as he is most commonly labeled, but also a very profound positional player. Actually, I think Bronstein is the best theoretician, even better than Fischer.

As you might know, The Sorcerer's Apprentice is the name of a famous book by David Bronstein.

[d]r1bqkb1r/ppp2pp1/5n1p/3P4/2nQP3/5N2/PPP2PPP/RNB1K2R b KQkq - 1 9

This is a position arisen out of the opening.

How many engines recognise white is winning above?

PS. Please, do not tell me there are engines that would favour black.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

[Lanzo]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

SF is very firm in it's belief that black has a sharp advantage, Dr. Tsvetkov.

[michiguel]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

This sac is very dubious, so no surprise black is favored.

Miguel

[michiguel]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

This sac is very dubious, so no surprise black is favored.

Miguel

There are two lines that seem to favor black,
a) Nd6 (rather than Nb6) followed by Nxfe4, which is very tactical, and
b) after c4, Nbd7 with the idea of deploying the B to c5 and Qe7.

In the game, Black messed it up by moving the Q the K side, trapping it. There were plenty of opportunities to improve.

Miguel

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

SF is very firm in it's belief that black has a sharp advantage, Dr. Tsvetkov.

And you are very firm to positively contribute to all my threads, and also to PyChess glorification.

Thanks a lot.

Maybe you will post some SF output, won't you?

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

This sac is very dubious, so no surprise black is favored.

Miguel

What do you mean dubious?

As said, white has 3 full pawns advantage above, supposedly, this will suffice for a win.

Did not you at least like the game?

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

This sac is very dubious, so no surprise black is favored.

Miguel

There are two lines that seem to favor black,
a) Nd6 (rather than Nb6) followed by Nxfe4, which is very tactical, and
b) after c4, Nbd7 with the idea of deploying the B to c5 and Qe7.

In the game, Black messed it up by moving the Q the K side, trapping it. There were plenty of opportunities to improve.

Miguel

Not at all, no opportunities to improve at all, white is simply winning that.

I could play this game 100 times against SF or any other engine, and black will not draw even a single game.

Btw., if you look at the game, this is a very nice example of the strength of long chains, but SF refuses to implement them.

I think that anyone wanting to learn very good opening theory, the best possible, in no time at all, should only take a look at all Bronstein games - much better than checking some large databases containing games of all sorts and players.

If you would like to learn opening theory, just look at Bronstein games, second best theoretician would be Fischer, and Kasparov is far behind.

[Eelco de Groot]

PS. Please, do not tell me there are engines that would favour black.

The advantage is more than a pawn at the present depth, if Black plays Nd6. But I am trying to get it over 1.12 It has dropped to 1.08 again:


r1bqkb1r/ppp2pp1/5n1p/3P4/2nQP3/5N2/PPP2PPP/RNB1K2R b KQkq -

Engine: Sf20150403 MOD MP (512 MB)
by Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba and Joona Kiiski
.
.
.
35/39 10:18 +1.00 1...Nd6 2.O-O Ndxe4 3.Re1 Be7 4.Rxe4 Nxe4
5.Qxe4 O-O 6.Nc3 Re8 7.Bf4 Bg4 8.Qd3 Bf6
9.Nd2 Bxc3 10.bxc3 Bh5 11.Rc1 Bg6
12.Qf3 Rc8 13.c4 Qf6 14.h3 b6 (1.618.650.157) 2618
.
.
.
36/40 12:09 +0.99 1...Nd6 2.O-O Ndxe4 3.Re1 Be7 4.Rxe4 Nxe4
5.Qxe4 O-O 6.Bf4 Re8 7.Nc3 Bg4 8.Qd3 Bxf3
9.Qxf3 Bd6 10.Bxd6 Qxd6 11.Qd3 c6
12.g3 Rad8 13.Rd1 Qb4 14.b3 cxd5 (1.919.793.540) 2630
.
.
.
37/46 26:09 +1.12 1...Nd6 2.Nc3 Nfxe4 3.Nxe4 Qe7 4.O-O Nxe4
5.Be3 a6 6.Rae1 f5 7.Ne5 Qf6 8.Nd3 Qxd4
9.Bxd4 Kf7 10.f3 Nf6 11.Ne5+ Kg8
12.Ng6 Rh7 13.Nxf8 Kxf8 14.c4 Bd7 (4.129.012.497) 2629
.
.
.
38/46 31:56 +1.08 1...Nd6 2.Nc3 Nfxe4 3.Nxe4 Qe7 4.O-O Nxe4
5.Be3 a6 6.Rae1 f5 7.Ne5 Qf6 8.Nd3 Qxd4
9.Bxd4 Kf7 10.f3 Nf6 11.Ne5+ Kg8
12.Ng6 Rh7 13.Nxf8 Kxf8 14.c4 Bd7 (5.017.990.544) 2618

[Lanzo]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

This sac is very dubious, so no surprise black is favored.

Miguel

There are two lines that seem to favor black,
a) Nd6 (rather than Nb6) followed by Nxfe4, which is very tactical, and
b) after c4, Nbd7 with the idea of deploying the B to c5 and Qe7.

In the game, Black messed it up by moving the Q the K side, trapping it. There were plenty of opportunities to improve.

Miguel

Not at all, no opportunities to improve at all, white is simply winning that.

I could play this game 100 times against SF or any other engine, and black will not draw even a single game.

Btw., if you look at the game, this is a very nice example of the strength of long chains, but SF refuses to implement them.

I think that anyone wanting to learn very good opening theory, the best possible, in no time at all, should only take a look at all Bronstein games - much better than checking some large databases containing games of all sorts and players.

If you would like to learn opening theory, just look at Bronstein games, second best theoretician would be Fischer, and Kasparov is far behind.

Dr. Tsvetkov, I hope you don't think I am being overly inquisitive but...in your much venerable opinion, who is the greatest player in history?