Well, we are waiting for it to be made available to everyone Andrew.AndrewGrant wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:07 amThere is very little harm in releasing it as a free UCI engine; and there is very little harm in keeping it internal to the site.Ras wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:48 pmHardly so. For their server use, Stockfish with GPL (not: AGPL!) would not be a problem at all because the binary is never delivered to the users. However, there would be no selling point because everyone can run Stockfish at home.Steve Maughan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:32 pmThe reason Chess.com created Torch was to have an engine that it controlled and so they didn't need to tip-toe around the licensing agreement for various use cases.
That would be a commercial mistake. If you run a subscription based platform, the last thing you'd want to do is dealing out features that enable people to enjoy the benefits away from the platform.They could even make it available as part of the top-tier sunscription.
At the end of the day, unless Torch surpasses Stockfish, and does so by margins that are obvious without massive hardware testing, there is no real value in it. Its an infinite arms race to improve the engine, with no particular purpose. All of us here know that of course. And we don't care! Keep improving engines.
I would be annoyed though to watch degenerate developers reverse engineer Torch to find the (10? 20?) elo they could add to Stockfish.
End of the Torch Experiement
Moderators: hgm, chrisw, Rebel
-
- Posts: 1571
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:47 pm
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
-
- Posts: 12097
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:57 am
- Location: Birmingham UK
- Full name: Graham Laight
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
All the people waiting for it to become public: when a new analysis engine, or new bots, become available in Chess.com, that will be Torch.
Want to attract exceptional people? Be exceptional.
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:08 am
- Full name: Brian D. Smith
-
- Posts: 3638
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:02 pm
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
Why on earth would chess.com do that, having invested what I think is a large sum of money in it in order to drive their business ? It seems that a lot of people think everything should be free these days.Krzysztof Grzelak wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:19 pm Well, we are waiting for it to be made available to everyone Andrew.
-
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:53 pm
- Location: Denmark
- Full name: Damir Desevac
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
Says the one who got Torch Engine for free as a tester..
-
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:20 am
- Full name: Andreas Matthies
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
My guess is that the money went into Torch development is just peanuts for a company like chess.com. But I agree that there is no value for them making it available for sale.Modern Times wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2024 1:25 pmWhy on earth would chess.com do that, having invested what I think is a large sum of money in it in order to drive their business ? It seems that a lot of people think everything should be free these days.Krzysztof Grzelak wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:19 pm Well, we are waiting for it to be made available to everyone Andrew.
-
- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
Torch last version could be sold to us, and donate some some money to the development teamRubiChess wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:21 pmMy guess is that the money went into Torch development is just peanuts for a company like chess.com. But I agree that there is no value for them making it available for sale.Modern Times wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2024 1:25 pmWhy on earth would chess.com do that, having invested what I think is a large sum of money in it in order to drive their business ? It seems that a lot of people think everything should be free these days.Krzysztof Grzelak wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:19 pm Well, we are waiting for it to be made available to everyone Andrew.
-
- Posts: 3020
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:18 pm
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Full name: Srdja Matovic
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
You can add a url via [ url] [ /url] (w/o white spaces) without being embedded as media player, you might annoy some users, just saying.
--
Srdja
-
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:07 pm
- Location: the Netherlands
- Full name: Jef Kaan
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
well Srdja i've simply put mr CQ on my ignore ('foe') list, but his name (and quotes of his silly messages) still pop up
(also notified a moderator but didn't get a reaction; that they grant some freedom of expression is understandable
but his impulsive messages with posting misleading youtube clips for me became rather annoying).
Anyway, i did'n't bother anymore to react to his (confused) messages about anti-chess (earlier I already I
wrote that it had been solved with 1.e3, but he didn't understand and continued with misleading messages
the strength of an -older- SF(airy) version, before Nnue). Anyway, I think anti (or losers) chess is flawed, and did a quick
check with the Pulsar variant engine and winboard to see if it can be corrected; removing the pawn at a7 may be
an idea, and leads to more balanced (b/w) play again. Something maybe for https://www.antichess.org/
(otherwise for online play you most likely get cheating eg. with a database of the antichess openings).
His drivel about this highly flawed ''ARB system' was the main reason to say goodbye. Years ago this already
was discussed, viewtopic.php?t=48818
The inventor by now should be 75 yrs if still alive, and he (a certain mr Brown) was banned a few times
with different accounts on chess.com after continous spamming with his nonsensical system. Nowadays
with Nnue engines this odd system obviously is completely inadequate and as human playing as such you will be
quickly demolished. A more modern similar system is the (semi) Hippopotamus, (with ARB being reversed
Hippopotamus) with the emphasis on 'semi' otherwise White quickly -and rather easily- can beat this system
in variants with f4, and a later f5.
https://www.newinchess.com/the-hippopotamus-defence.
Concluding, as some others also wrote, the subtopic 'general topics' imo is being spammed with yt vids
and this probably inhibits other, more productive discussions. For this reason i had a look to open-chess.org
and the postings there (still?) seem to be of a higher quality, although it's also not very busy there;
apparently Discord nowadays is the place to go; besides the SF server there is a Discord server
'engine programming' but it seems to be about game engines and not (only?) chess (anyway i'll have a look
to see if they talk about GUI programming (for chess), otherwise the Lichess server is an idea.
PS regarding the latter topic, while i talked about (the oldfashioned?) topic of system development
'cycles', nowadays the concept of UI/UX seems to be the hot(test) topic, see eg:
https://www.codecademy.com/learn/intro-to-ui-ux
https://www.coursera.org/specializations/ui-ux-design
But i'm getting off topic now (wrt the Torch engine)
(also notified a moderator but didn't get a reaction; that they grant some freedom of expression is understandable
but his impulsive messages with posting misleading youtube clips for me became rather annoying).
Anyway, i did'n't bother anymore to react to his (confused) messages about anti-chess (earlier I already I
wrote that it had been solved with 1.e3, but he didn't understand and continued with misleading messages
the strength of an -older- SF(airy) version, before Nnue). Anyway, I think anti (or losers) chess is flawed, and did a quick
check with the Pulsar variant engine and winboard to see if it can be corrected; removing the pawn at a7 may be
an idea, and leads to more balanced (b/w) play again. Something maybe for https://www.antichess.org/
(otherwise for online play you most likely get cheating eg. with a database of the antichess openings).
His drivel about this highly flawed ''ARB system' was the main reason to say goodbye. Years ago this already
was discussed, viewtopic.php?t=48818
The inventor by now should be 75 yrs if still alive, and he (a certain mr Brown) was banned a few times
with different accounts on chess.com after continous spamming with his nonsensical system. Nowadays
with Nnue engines this odd system obviously is completely inadequate and as human playing as such you will be
quickly demolished. A more modern similar system is the (semi) Hippopotamus, (with ARB being reversed
Hippopotamus) with the emphasis on 'semi' otherwise White quickly -and rather easily- can beat this system
in variants with f4, and a later f5.
https://www.newinchess.com/the-hippopotamus-defence.
Concluding, as some others also wrote, the subtopic 'general topics' imo is being spammed with yt vids
and this probably inhibits other, more productive discussions. For this reason i had a look to open-chess.org
and the postings there (still?) seem to be of a higher quality, although it's also not very busy there;
apparently Discord nowadays is the place to go; besides the SF server there is a Discord server
'engine programming' but it seems to be about game engines and not (only?) chess (anyway i'll have a look
to see if they talk about GUI programming (for chess), otherwise the Lichess server is an idea.
PS regarding the latter topic, while i talked about (the oldfashioned?) topic of system development
'cycles', nowadays the concept of UI/UX seems to be the hot(test) topic, see eg:
https://www.codecademy.com/learn/intro-to-ui-ux
https://www.coursera.org/specializations/ui-ux-design
But i'm getting off topic now (wrt the Torch engine)
-
- Posts: 3020
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:18 pm
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Full name: Srdja Matovic
Re: End of the Torch Experiement
Hmm, CQ got banned (cos of signature misuse) and if YT embed is the issue, the mods can deactivate that module in phpBB backend:jefk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:31 am well Srdja i've simply put mr CQ on my ignore ('foe') list, but his name (and quotes of his silly messages) still pop up
(also notified a moderator but didn't get a reaction; that they grant some freedom of expression is understandable
but his impulsive messages with posting misleading youtube clips for me became rather annoying).
[...]
Youtube links
viewtopic.php?t=83925
Ban of member
viewtopic.php?t=83939
--
Srdja