Hydra Can be Easily Beaten, Sometimes.

[Terry McCracken]

Shredder 8 with the White Pieces and the Yugoslav Attack, proved too much for Hydra.

Actually with White this is my favorite weapon against a computer that plays the Dragon!

I killed Rybka in about 30 moves as well with it. If you remember, I posted it here about a year or two ago.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1316427

Enjoy,
Terry

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Thanks Terry,nice article and good playing skills you have there

[Tony Thomas]

Just a NM defeated Romi in 28 moves on ICC..

[Tony Thomas]

Code: Select all

[Event "?"]
[Site "chessclub.com"]
[Date "2008.5.29"]
[Time "5:50:22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "chess-rehab"]
[Black "apocalypse1112"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2259"]
[BlackElo "2377"]
[Opening "A00 Anti-Borg (Desprez) opening"]

{Time control = 3 0 Engine book(s):  }
1. h4 e5 {0.00/1 0.0 } 2. c3 Nc6 {0.00/1 5.1 } 3. g3 Nf6 {1.28/12 3.5 } 4. d4 d5
{0.00/1 4.8 } 5. Bg5 exd4 {0.00/1 4.3 } 6. cxd4 h6 {0.96/12 3.8 } 7. Bf4 Bb4+
{0.00/1 4.3 } 8. Nc3 Nh5 {0.84/11 3.9 } 9. e3 Nxf4 {0.91/11 3.9 } 10. gxf4 O-O
{0.00/1 4.0 } 11. Bd3 Re8 {1.31/11 3.2 } 12. Nf3 Bg4 {1.34/11 3.8 } 13. Be2 Qf6
{1.39/10 5.6 } 14. Ne5 Bxe2 {0.00/1 3.5 } 15. Qxe2 Bxc3+ {1.18/12 5.8 } 16. bxc3
Nxe5 {0.00/1 4.0 } 17. fxe5 Qe7 {0.00/1 5.8 } 18. Qg4 Qa3 {1.13/12 3.5 } 19. O-O
c5 {0.00/1 3.5 } 20. Kh2 Qxc3 {0.00/1 3.1 } 21. Rg1 g6 {0.95/11 3.2 } 22. h5 g5
{0.00/1 3.9 } 23. Qf5 Rac8 {0.94/10 3.0 } 24. Rxg5+ Kf8 {-2.05/12 2.4 } 25. Rg7
Rc7 {0.00/1 3.4 } 26. Rag1 Qb2 {-M 04/7 0.2 } 27. Rg8+ {apocalypse1112 forfeits
on time} 1-0

Romi resigned after move 27 but I didnt enter resign so she lost on time...Anything unusual about this game??

[AdminX]

Hi Terry,

Dolmatov,S (2535)-Vasiukov,E (2545)/Vilnius 1980/URS-ch/1-0, seems to be the key game here. Hydra had a worst position right out of opening book. Move 28. ...Qd8 did not make it any better either.

Hiracs 12 quick eval shows:

[d]r2q3k/pp2pp1p/3p1n1P/3P1Br1/6P1/P6R/1PP2Q2/1K1R4 w - - 0 1

Analysis by HIARCS 12 MP:

28.Qe3 Rxf5 29.gxf5 Qf8 30.Re1 Re8 31.Qxa7
+- (4.72) Depth: 13/24 00:00:00 297kN
+- (4.73) Depth: 17/37 00:00:19 10088kN

Black may have improved on its play at move 22. with ... Rc7. See below for before and after.

Black to play
[d]r1r4k/pp2pp1p/3p1n1P/2qP1Q2/8/P7/1PP3P1/1K1R1B1R b - - 0 22
Move played in Game
[d]r5rk/pp2pp1p/3p1n1P/2qP1Q2/8/P7/1PP3P1/1K1R1B1R w - - 0 23
Postion after Rc7
[d]r6k/ppr1pp1p/3p1n1P/2qP1Q2/8/P7/1PP3P1/1K1R1B1R w - - 0 23

[AdminX]

PS: Blacks position still does not look all that great, white has nice ideas in moves like Rh3 and g4 to follow.

[swami]

Code: Select all

[Event "?"]
[Site "chessclub.com"]
[Date "2008.5.29"]
[Time "5:50:22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "chess-rehab"]
[Black "apocalypse1112"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2259"]
[BlackElo "2377"]
[Opening "A00 Anti-Borg (Desprez) opening"]

{Time control = 3 0 Engine book(s):  }
1. h4 e5 {0.00/1 0.0 } 2. c3 Nc6 {0.00/1 5.1 } 3. g3 Nf6 {1.28/12 3.5 } 4. d4 d5
{0.00/1 4.8 } 5. Bg5 exd4 {0.00/1 4.3 } 6. cxd4 h6 {0.96/12 3.8 } 7. Bf4 Bb4+
{0.00/1 4.3 } 8. Nc3 Nh5 {0.84/11 3.9 } 9. e3 Nxf4 {0.91/11 3.9 } 10. gxf4 O-O
{0.00/1 4.0 } 11. Bd3 Re8 {1.31/11 3.2 } 12. Nf3 Bg4 {1.34/11 3.8 } 13. Be2 Qf6
{1.39/10 5.6 } 14. Ne5 Bxe2 {0.00/1 3.5 } 15. Qxe2 Bxc3+ {1.18/12 5.8 } 16. bxc3
Nxe5 {0.00/1 4.0 } 17. fxe5 Qe7 {0.00/1 5.8 } 18. Qg4 Qa3 {1.13/12 3.5 } 19. O-O
c5 {0.00/1 3.5 } 20. Kh2 Qxc3 {0.00/1 3.1 } 21. Rg1 g6 {0.95/11 3.2 } 22. h5 g5
{0.00/1 3.9 } 23. Qf5 Rac8 {0.94/10 3.0 } 24. Rxg5+ Kf8 {-2.05/12 2.4 } 25. Rg7
Rc7 {0.00/1 3.4 } 26. Rag1 Qb2 {-M 04/7 0.2 } 27. Rg8+ {apocalypse1112 forfeits
on time} 1-0

Romi resigned after move 27 but I didnt enter resign so she lost on time...Anything unusual about this game??

19.... C5 not that good - gives your opponent chance to attack the king side.
Re6 better.


23...Rac8 big blunder, some engines would give ok eval for the first few seconds then would see it as a blunder. Romi and other 2500 rateds takes little more time to see that this is indeed the blunder. suggest Qd2.

No real problem, it's just that either Romi's ability is limited or she needs better hardware , I think she will find it on faster hardware quickly enough to reject Rac8 move.

[Michael Sherwin]

Code: Select all

[Event "?"]
[Site "chessclub.com"]
[Date "2008.5.29"]
[Time "5:50:22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "chess-rehab"]
[Black "apocalypse1112"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2259"]
[BlackElo "2377"]
[Opening "A00 Anti-Borg (Desprez) opening"]

{Time control = 3 0 Engine book(s):  }
1. h4 e5 {0.00/1 0.0 } 2. c3 Nc6 {0.00/1 5.1 } 3. g3 Nf6 {1.28/12 3.5 } 4. d4 d5
{0.00/1 4.8 } 5. Bg5 exd4 {0.00/1 4.3 } 6. cxd4 h6 {0.96/12 3.8 } 7. Bf4 Bb4+
{0.00/1 4.3 } 8. Nc3 Nh5 {0.84/11 3.9 } 9. e3 Nxf4 {0.91/11 3.9 } 10. gxf4 O-O
{0.00/1 4.0 } 11. Bd3 Re8 {1.31/11 3.2 } 12. Nf3 Bg4 {1.34/11 3.8 } 13. Be2 Qf6
{1.39/10 5.6 } 14. Ne5 Bxe2 {0.00/1 3.5 } 15. Qxe2 Bxc3+ {1.18/12 5.8 } 16. bxc3
Nxe5 {0.00/1 4.0 } 17. fxe5 Qe7 {0.00/1 5.8 } 18. Qg4 Qa3 {1.13/12 3.5 } 19. O-O
c5 {0.00/1 3.5 } 20. Kh2 Qxc3 {0.00/1 3.1 } 21. Rg1 g6 {0.95/11 3.2 } 22. h5 g5
{0.00/1 3.9 } 23. Qf5 Rac8 {0.94/10 3.0 } 24. Rxg5+ Kf8 {-2.05/12 2.4 } 25. Rg7
Rc7 {0.00/1 3.4 } 26. Rag1 Qb2 {-M 04/7 0.2 } 27. Rg8+ {apocalypse1112 forfeits
on time} 1-0

Romi resigned after move 27 but I didnt enter resign so she lost on time...Anything unusual about this game??

I am thinking that it is an LMR combined with null move problem. Romi 3k reduces 2 ply for LMR. Then a null move reduction in an already reduced line may just simply overlook the mate threat and prune the line as good for the computer. I will try not allowing null moves in LMR reduced lines and see what happens.

[M ANSARI]

I think this was an early version of Hydra and is very different from the 16 core and 32 core (or maybe even 64 core) Hydra that is out there now. Even so ... in some very sharp lines such as the Sicilian or poisoned pawn ... black can be lost right from the opening and not even show a drop in evaluation. I can think of at least 2 games in the poisoned pawn where exactly that happened. In such situations even a 1000 cores will be of no use.

[Michael Sherwin]

Code: Select all

[Event "?"]
[Site "chessclub.com"]
[Date "2008.5.29"]
[Time "5:50:22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "chess-rehab"]
[Black "apocalypse1112"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2259"]
[BlackElo "2377"]
[Opening "A00 Anti-Borg (Desprez) opening"]

{Time control = 3 0 Engine book(s):  }
1. h4 e5 {0.00/1 0.0 } 2. c3 Nc6 {0.00/1 5.1 } 3. g3 Nf6 {1.28/12 3.5 } 4. d4 d5
{0.00/1 4.8 } 5. Bg5 exd4 {0.00/1 4.3 } 6. cxd4 h6 {0.96/12 3.8 } 7. Bf4 Bb4+
{0.00/1 4.3 } 8. Nc3 Nh5 {0.84/11 3.9 } 9. e3 Nxf4 {0.91/11 3.9 } 10. gxf4 O-O
{0.00/1 4.0 } 11. Bd3 Re8 {1.31/11 3.2 } 12. Nf3 Bg4 {1.34/11 3.8 } 13. Be2 Qf6
{1.39/10 5.6 } 14. Ne5 Bxe2 {0.00/1 3.5 } 15. Qxe2 Bxc3+ {1.18/12 5.8 } 16. bxc3
Nxe5 {0.00/1 4.0 } 17. fxe5 Qe7 {0.00/1 5.8 } 18. Qg4 Qa3 {1.13/12 3.5 } 19. O-O
c5 {0.00/1 3.5 } 20. Kh2 Qxc3 {0.00/1 3.1 } 21. Rg1 g6 {0.95/11 3.2 } 22. h5 g5
{0.00/1 3.9 } 23. Qf5 Rac8 {0.94/10 3.0 } 24. Rxg5+ Kf8 {-2.05/12 2.4 } 25. Rg7
Rc7 {0.00/1 3.4 } 26. Rag1 Qb2 {-M 04/7 0.2 } 27. Rg8+ {apocalypse1112 forfeits
on time} 1-0

Romi resigned after move 27 but I didnt enter resign so she lost on time...Anything unusual about this game??

I am thinking that it is an LMR combined with null move problem. Romi 3k reduces 2 ply for LMR. Then a null move reduction in an already reduced line may just simply overlook the mate threat and prune the line as good for the computer. I will try not allowing null moves in LMR reduced lines and see what happens.

Holy goat Tony! It seems like it's working. Romi is more sure footed than Goat herself. Goat has even asked Romi to give stepping lessons to all the kidds of goat mountain!

This was just a quickie. I will see if there is more to be gotten from better design and testing.

My mom knew who I am today and Romi may have just got stronger. A rather doggone good day I would say!