Building Chess Computer

[titanD]

I need to build a chess computer for correspondence and some tablebase generation and opening analysis.

Budget is a big concern for me.

I'm looking at i7-4790K for three reasons

a. it's about $50 cheaper than i7-5820k
b. LGA-1150 motherboards are significantly cheaper than LGA-2011-v3
c. it has better single core performance than the i7-5820k and given that chess engines have diminishing returns on parallelization, these should mitigate each other a bit and result in less of a dropoff from the i7-5820k which I'm sure would be slightly superior but not enough to really make a difference.

How important is quad channel memory?

Do you have any recommendations for the motherboard? I see some seriously cheap ones but they'd only be an option if quad channel memory provided very little benefit over dual channel memory.

What about RAM? How much and in what form? (4 dimms, 2 dimms, etc.)

[Vinvin]

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-5 ... e-i7-4790K

Don't forget DDR4 is more expensive than DDR3 !
I bought an I7-4930K in last December and overclocked it to 4Ghz.

[titanD]

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-5 ... e-i7-4790K

Yep that's what I used to determine that it had better single-core performance than the 5820k

I'm just wondering what Mobo, RAM, and RAM configuration to go with

[Bloodbane]

I purchased a new computer about a half a year ago, and I chose the i7-4790K. In my opinion, it is the best cheap processor currently available. It has one slight problem though, it needs some serious cooling. The first time I tried it the temperatures went so high I could've used it as a kitchen stove in a Michelin-starred restaurant. Keep that in mind. I can't really comment on the mobo (I just chose one basically randomly), but I don't think quad channel makes that much of a difference, especially if you are on a tight budget.

[titanD]

I'd really appreciate some feedback on this. I'm going with dual channel since I see 1150 only does dual channel.

Is there any way I could make this significantly cheaper without losing much performance.

Or significantly better performance for not significantly more expense.

4790k cpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

$40 mobo from a company i've never heard of: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813138407

16 GB (2x8GB) G.SKILL: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231568

$70 case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811853009

$133 250 GB SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 12K1RJ7425

$70 450W PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 0ZX2C39786[/list][/list]

[Laskos]

I'd really appreciate some feedback on this. I'm going with dual channel since I see 1150 only does dual channel.

Is there any way I could make this significantly cheaper without losing much performance.

Or significantly better performance for not significantly more expense.

4790k cpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

$40 mobo from a company i've never heard of: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813138407

16 GB (2x8GB) G.SKILL: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231568

$70 case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811853009

$133 250 GB SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 12K1RJ7425

$70 450W PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 0ZX2C39786[/list][/list]

PSU of at least 500W. You need a cooler, the stock cooler is inadequate, this thing goes to 75 Celsius on stock, without OC.

[Zenmastur]

I'd really appreciate some feedback on this. I'm going with dual channel since I see 1150 only does dual channel.

Is there any way I could make this significantly cheaper without losing much performance.

Or significantly better performance for not significantly more expense.

4790k cpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

$40 mobo from a company i've never heard of: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813138407

This company has been around for a long time. Even so I always read the reviews for problems with any MB. I don't like micro-ATX MB period. They're cheaper but shared memory with the GPU robs the CPU of memory bandwidth. Probably more important is this MB can only run DDR-1600. Better is a MB capable of DDR-2400. They're more expensive but you want the lowest ram latency possible. A MB with good over-clocking will have much better support for running RAM at non-standard speeds and latencies.

16 GB (2x8GB) G.SKILL: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231568

For basically the same price you can get memory that is capable of better CAS latency or faster clock speeds with the same CAS latency. In either case you reduce memory latency to the CPU which is good for chess engines.

$70 case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811853009

Unless you are really cramped for space, you can get an ATX compatible case cheaper. This will give you more room for expansion and the PSU will likely be cheaper and more robust.

$133 250 GB SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 12K1RJ7425

They are plenty of cheaper and faster 256GB SSD available on Newegg. I would look at other drives.

$70 450W PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 0ZX2C39786

DO NOT get a cheap power supply, what every you do. If you want to save money, save it some place else and don't over buy the PSU. Look closely at the required power for your set-up then Specs. the PSU to 120% to 125% of the requirements. Pay close attention to each rail on the PSU to make sure it can supply all power needed under worst case circumstances. This last part is important when buy a PSU that isn't over spec'd. Antec PSU are extremely reliable, robust and have good warranties.

Get good cooling if you can afford it. For an inexpensive cooler the Hyper-212 EVO is a best buy.

One last note, I have built so many computers I can't count that high. The best advice I can give is to plan ahead. Meaning that you will have the computer for several years. It's more cost effective to anticipate what you are likely to want in the future and then buy in such a way that many of the parts of the current system can be used for your next system. In most cases it's nice if your current system is directly up-gradable with only minor changes. You should do this even if it means spending a little more now. It's better to wait than to buy something you wont be happy with!!

Regards,

Zen

[jdart]

Yup. It is extra cost but you want a decent cooler, especialy if you plan to overclock. I like Noctua, for example http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835608014.

And I would buy a couple good case fans. I like these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835553001.

Btw. Biostar is an ok motherboard. They are a Taiwanese company, like Asus, etc.

--Jon

[Zenmastur]

A couple of other points on system builds.

PSU of at least 500W. You need a cooler, the stock cooler is inadequate, this thing goes to 75 Celsius on stock, without OC.

I used to be a fan of over spec'ing the power supply. It solves the problem of having to replace the PSU when upgrading the system at some latter date. But this assumes that the MB connectors remain the same between now and the time you upgrade. If the connectors on a new MB are changed it's very likely you will need a new power supply anyway. This has happened to me twice so it's possible. In addition, an over spec'd power supply will operate away from it's design point and will be much less efficient. This wastes power and generates extra heat that has to be removed from the case.

I don't believe that a 500+ W power supply is the answer in this case unless you plan on having a power hungry video set up. Since your original set up didn't even include a separate video card I think you can scale back on the power supply as long as you don't plan on adding an ultra-high performance video set up in the future. You can actual run the system you spec'd on a PSU like the Antec Earthwatts Green EA-380D
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817371033

The CPU's TDP is only 88 watts. Even with the inefficiencies of converting the voltage down to 1+ volts on the mother board this is unlikely to draw more than 125 watts from the PSU. Even with a healthy over-clock this number is unlikely to exceed 200 watts. Hard drives and memory draw very little power. SSD's draw even less power than conventional HD's. The only other real power draws would be the video card, if you decide to add one and case fans if you add a large number of them. So contrary to popular belief you don't need 500+ watts to build an over clocked system. It used to be that the advertised rating of the power supplies was grossly over stated. I guess this still happens with some manufactures. This is why you shouldn't buy "cheap" power supplies. About 15 years ago Antec came out with their "True Power" series which could in fact produce their full rated power continuously. Even when buying a "good" power supply you still need to check the specs on each rail to verify that each rail can handle the maximum load it will be subject to during normal use.

The main point I'm trying to make is that you can save considerable money on the case and power supply by buying an ATX case and power supply instead of a micro-ATX case and power supply. Most ATX cases can handle micro-ATX mother boards if you still want the cheaper mother board. Some Micro ATX mother boards can be powered by a standard ATX power supply although some can't. I figure with the money saved on the case and power supply you could upgrade to a full ATX mother board for the same total cost. This would allow much greater flexibility during a future upgrade. An example would be adding several more hard drives, maybe a raid array, or a video card etc.

I would highly recommend a video card to unload the memory the CPU is using. Video takes quite a bit of memory bandwidth and will affect the effective latency seen by the CPU. For best results even a really cheap video card will alleviate this problem. So, I would try very hard to work this into my budget. If you can't work it into the budget I suspect that you will get as good if not better performance by buying a less expensive CPU and changing the MB so you can add a video card. Even a cheap video card will work perfectly for this purpose. But you have to buy a MB that has an expansion slot for one.

Yup. It is extra cost but you want a decent cooler, especialy if you plan to overclock. I like Noctua, for example http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835608014.

And I would buy a couple good case fans. I like these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835553001.

Btw. Biostar is an ok motherboard. They are a Taiwanese company, like Asus, etc.

--Jon

I'm always price conscious when buying coolers and fans. If you add a lot of fans the price can add up quickly. Especially true if you spec the more expensive "quite" fans which I often do. I have built lots of systems on shoe string budgets. It's sometimes surprising how much performance you can get on a small budget with a little thought. For the price of the cooler you spec'd you could get a water cooler. And for just a little bit more you can get a "good" water cooler which would allow very good over-clocking. I like getting good deals, and so I always spec the system on a spread sheet and do lots of what-ifs before I commit to a purchase. On an expensive system, ($5K or so) you can save a grand. Even on a cheap system you can save a couple of hundred dollars. A couple of hundred dollars can buy a fair amount of extra ram or a nice SSD etc. So I don't mind taking a little extra time to weigh the options and give serious consideration to the way the system is going to be used. In the end it will pay big dividends.

Regards,

Zen

[Zenmastur]

One thing I forgot to mention. When buying a cooler it's a good idea to verify that it will actually fit in the case you selected. There is nothing worse than trying to assemble a system in which a required part ( the CPU cooler) wont fit in the case!

Regards,

Zen