Is there a way to have a position checked by a "super computer" or something similar? I need to do an analysis for a claim for a finished correspondence game and I am do not know if 32..Qb6 is a fatal mistake and the game can be saved by playing 32..Nc8. I am using Stockfish for hours but my hash (2 GB) is too small and I think the engine forgets about dead-ends and therefore cannot come to reliable conclusion.
[pgn]1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 Ne7 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 b6 7. Qg4 Ng6 8. h4
h5 9. Qd1 Qd7 10. Be2 Ba6 11. Bxh5 Qb5 12. Be2 Qa5 13. Bxa6 Nxa6 14. Bg5 Qxc3+
15. Kf1 c5 16. Ne2 Qc4 17. c3 Nb8 18. Kg1 Nc6 19. h5 Nge7 20. Rh3 Rc8 21. Qd2
Qb3 22. a4 Nf5 23. a5 bxa5 24. g4 Nh6 25. Rg3 Qc4 26. Qd1 Ng8 27. dxc5 Qxc5 28.
Nd4 Nge7 29. Rb1 Rb8 30. Rxb8+ Nxb8 31. Qa4+ Nd7 32. Re3 Qb6 (32... Nc8) [/pgn]
How to have a position checked?
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Hamster
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Jim Ablett
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evert823
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Re: How to have a position checked?
It is a bit remarkable that I'm trying to enter a FEN in this one.
2rq1r2/pb2bpp1/1pnppn1p/2p1k3/4p2B/1PPBP3/PP2QPPP/R2NRNK1 w
It says that this is an invalid FEN.
[d]2rq1r2/pb2bpp1/1pnppn1p/2p1k3/4p2B/1PPBP3/PP2QPPP/R2NRNK1 w
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peter
- Posts: 3251
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- Full name: Peter Martan
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peter
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
- Full name: Peter Martan
Re: How to have a position checked?
Found Spiegel W.-Loeschnauer R. 2020 fitting the first 32 moves, having had a Backward of this game, that ended with 1-0 after 50 moves, and Forward- Backward of a line of interactive analysis starting with 32...Nc8 instead of ...Qb6, here's some output of SF dev., ponder- time restarted with latest ply back to root positions, each time hash full (32G, 30 threads of 16x3.5GHz CPU) out of corresponding line backwarded to given root position.
After 32...Nc8:
[d]2n1k2r/p2n1pp1/4p3/p1qpP1BP/Q2N2P1/2P1R3/5P2/6K1 w k - 0 1
Analysis by Stockfish dev-20241012-9766db81:
33.Nf5 Rh7 34.Nd4 Ncb6 35.Qc2 Nf8 36.Re1 Qc4 37.Kg2 Nbd7 38.f3 a6 39.Qb1 Qc8 40.Re2 Rh8 41.Qb3 Nxe5 42.Rxe5 f6 43.Re3 fxg5 44.Qxd5 Kf7 45.Qxg5 Kg8 46.Qxa5 Rh6 47.f4 Rf6 48.Kg3 Rf7 49.Qe5 Qc4 50.Qe4 Qc7 51.Nf3 Qc8 52.c4 Ra7 53.Qc2 Rc7 54.Ne5 a5 55.g5 Qb7 56.c5 Qh1 57.c6 Qg1+ 58.Kf3
Depth: 41/64 00:10:41 5373MN
White has a decisive advantage.
+- (2.85)
And after (new one Backward of text- moves of game and) 32...Qb6:
[d]4k2r/p2nnpp1/1q2p3/p2pP1BP/Q2N2P1/2P1R3/5P2/6K1 w k - 0 1
Analysis by Stockfish dev-20241012-9766db81:
33.f4 g6 34.h6 Ng8 35.Qa3 Qc5 36.Qa2 a6 37.Kg2 Qc7 38.Rf3 Nc5 39.Rh3 Ne4 40.h7 Ne7 41.Bf6 Nxf6 42.exf6 Nc6 43.Qa4 Kd7 44.Rh1 Kd6 45.Nf3 Qb6 46.Qa2 Qe3 47.Ng5 Nd8 48.Qf2 Qd3 49.Ra1 Kc7 50.Rxa5 Nb7 51.Ra2 Qd1 52.Qf3 Qb1 53.Qe2 Nc5 54.Rb2 Qc1 55.Nxf7 Nd3 56.Qd2 Nxf4+ 57.Kg3
Depth: 40/69 00:12:16 5364MN
White has a decisive advantage.
+- (3.07)
Of course, Black can try other moves but the two ones too, without further Forward- Backward SF yet doesn't evaluate other ones relevantly better:
Depth 32 MultiPV=6:
Code: Select all
4k2r/p2nnpp1/4p3/p1qpP1BP/Q2N2P1/2P1R3/5P2/6K1 b k - 0 1
Analysis by Stockfish dev-20241012-9766db81:
1. +- (2.32): 32...Nc8 33.Nf5 Rg8 34.Nd4 Ncb6 35.Qc2 Nf8 36.Re1 Qc4 37.f3 a4 38.Rb1 Qc7 39.Kg2 a3 40.Qb3 f6 41.exf6 gxf6 42.Bxf6 Qf7 43.Be5 Qxh5 44.Re1 Qh7 45.Bd6 Rh8 46.Qxa3 Qh3+ 47.Kf2 Qh4+ 48.Bg3 Qe7 49.Qa5 Nc4 50.Qb5+ Kf7 51.Nc6 Qe8 52.f4 Rh7 53.f5 Kg8 54.fxe6
2. +- (2.74): 32...Qb6 33.f4 Ng8 34.Qa3 Qc5 35.Qxc5 Nxc5 36.c4 dxc4 37.Rc3 Nb3 38.Nxb3 cxb3 39.Rxb3 Kd7 40.Rb7+ Kc6 41.Rxf7 Nh6 42.Bxh6 gxh6 43.Kf2 a6 44.Ra7 Kb5 45.Rb7+ Kc5 46.Kf3 a4 47.f5 a5 48.Kf4 Kc4 49.Rb6 a3 50.Rxe6 a2 51.Rc6+ Kb3 52.Rc1 Kb2 53.Rf1 Kb3
3. +- (3.18): 32...a6 33.f4 Qb6 34.Kg2 g6 35.h6 Ng8 36.Qa3 Qc5 37.Qa2 Qc7 38.Rh3 Ne7 39.Qa3 Qc5 40.Qa1 Qc7 41.Qa2 Rh7 42.Qa4 Qb6 43.Qa1 Nc5 44.Rh1 Qc7 45.Rb1 a4 46.Qa3 Nc8 47.Qb4 a5
4. +- (3.25): 32...Qc4 33.Qxa5 Qc5 34.Qa4 Qb6 35.f4 Qb7 36.Kg2 g6 37.h6 Qb6 38.Re2 Nc8 39.Rc2 Qc5 40.Ra2 Qb6 41.Qb4 Nc5 42.Ra5 Qxb4 43.cxb4 Ne4 44.Ra1 0-0 45.Bf6 Nxf6 46.exf6 g5 47.fxg5 Kh7 48.Nf3 Kg6 49.Kg3 Nd6 50.Rxa7 Rb8 51.Kh4 Nc4 52.Rd7
5. +- (3.36): 32...Rh7 33.f4 g6 34.h6 Ng8 35.Kg2 Qb6 36.Qa3 Qc5 37.Qa1 Rh8 38.Rh3 Rh7 39.Qa4 Ne7 40.Re3 Qb6 41.Re1 Rh8 42.Re2 a6 43.Ra2 Ng8 44.Qa3 Qc7 45.Rb2 Rh7 46.Rb1 Rh8 47.Rh1 Rh7 48.Rc1 Qb6 49.Rc2 Qc7 50.Rb2 Nc5 51.Rb1 a4 52.Rc1 Nxh6 53.Rh1 Kf8 54.Qb4 a3 55.Bxh6+ Rxh6 56.Rxh6 a2 57.Qa3 Kg8 58.Rh3 Qc8 59.Qxa2
6. +- (3.47): 32...g6 33.Nb5 Nc8 34.hxg6 fxg6 35.Nd4 Qc4 36.Qxc4 dxc4 37.Nxe6 Ndb6 38.Nf4 a4 39.Re1 a3 40.Ra1 Kd7 41.Rxa3 Kc6 42.Ra5 Na8 43.Nd5 Ncb6 44.Bf6 Re8 45.Ne7+ Kb7 46.g5 Nc7 47.f4 Rd8 48.Ra1 Ne6
So I'd say after 32st move of White's, Black's already lost. Game btw is in Hiarcs abo- book till 28.Nd4 as only one example and 1-0 result too, regards
Peter.
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peter
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
- Full name: Peter Martan
Re: How to have a position checked?
Here I then did let Lc0 with net 6147500PT and 3070ti Nvidia- GPU play out for White against SF dev. 20241012 with 28 threads of 16x3.5GHz CPU, starting from position after 32...Nc8:
[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 25.0min+5.0sek"]
[Site "AMD"]
[Date "2024.10.25"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Lc0 v0.31.2"]
[Black "Stockfish"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C16"]
[Annotator "1.96;2.10"]
[PlyCount "159"]
[TimeControl "1500+5"]
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 Ne7 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 b6 7. Qg4 Ng6 8. h4 h5 9. Qd1 Qd7 10. Be2 Ba6 11. Bxh5 Qb5 12. Be2 Qa5 13. Bxa6 Nxa6 14. Bg5 Qxc3+ 15. Kf1 c5 16. Ne2 Qc4 17. c3 Nb8 18. Kg1 Nc6 19. h5 Nge7 20. Rh3 Rc8 21. Qd2 Qb3 22. a4 Nf5 23. a5 bxa5 24. g4 Nh6 25. Rg3 Qc4 26. Qd1 Ng8 27. dxc5 Qxc5 28. Nd4 Nge7 29. Rb1 Rb8 30. Rxb8+ Nxb8 31. Qa4+ Nd7 32. Re3 Nc8 33. Nf5 {1.96/20 224} Rg8 {2.10/37 182} 34. Nd4 {2.05/21 0} Ncb6 {2.45/41 751} 35. Qc2 {2.27/21 0} Nf8 {2.58/29 40} 36. Re1 {2.29/19 0} Qc4 {2.69/38 331} 37. Kg2 {2.38/19 1} Kd7 {2.89/41 268 (Th8)} 38. Be3 {2.54/17 161} Ke8 {2.83/35 0} 39. f3 {3.21/20 294} Rh8 {3.15/34 0} 40. Qb1 {3.43/21 2 (Lg5)} Nfd7 {3.44/32 105} 41. Nxe6 {3.79/22 78} fxe6 {3.81/30 0} 42. Qg6+ {3.65/21 25} Kd8 {3.79/28 0} 43. Qxg7 {3.43/20 76} Re8 {3.99/32 0} 44. h6 {3.28/19 34 (Df7)} Nf8 {3.15/24 10} 45. h7 {3.25/18 53} Nxh7 {3.56/31 0} 46. Qxh7 {3.15/17 28} Qc7 {3.59/27 3} 47. Qg6 {3.19/15 31} Qc6 {3.93/31 5 (Kd7)} 48. Rh1 {3.78/14 141} a4 {4.29/34 0} 49. Rh7 {4.20/15 50} d4 {4.53/30 0} 50. cxd4 {4.45/15 118} Kc8 {4.78/35 0} 51. Rxa7 {5.01/15 47} Kb8 {4.91/31 0 (Tf8)} 52. Ra5 {6.25/14 65 (Ta6)} Rf8 {4.19/25 11} 53. d5 {6.29/15 32} Nxd5 {4.47/29 14} 54. Ba7+ {7.12/15 55 (Db1+)} Kc8 {8.25/32 41} 55. Qh6 {8.01/15 2} Qe8 {9.02/28 9 (Sf4+)} 56. Bc5 {11.80/10 66} Rg8 {9.46/33 0 (Th8)} 57. Bd6 {13.93/10 54 (Ta8+)} Rh8 {#17/43 8 (Dd7)} 58. Qg7 {18.25/10 24} Ne7 {199.80/67 0} 59. Bxe7 {19.84/10 25 (Ta8+)} Rg8 {#14/62 3} 60. Qf6 {31.79/9 19 (Dxg8)} Qg6 {199.61/30 4} 61. Qf4 {21.79/8 18 (Dxg6)} Qd3 {#12/70 8 (Dc2+)} 62. Kg3 {27.04/8 20} Qc3 {#11/78 0} 63. Bb4 {35.68/7 9 (Tc5+)} Qc6 {#11/72 5} 64. Rc5 {39.01/7 18} Qxc5 {#10/92 0} 65. Bxc5 {63.10/7 5} Rd8 {#9/94 1 (Tg7)} 66. Qxa4 {39.18/6 18} Kc7 {#8/108 0} 67. Qa6 {69.03/6 9 (Db5)} Rd1 {#7/128 6 (Td3)} 68. Bd6+ {#111/1 0} Rxd6 {#6/245 0} 69. Qxd6+ {#110/1 0} Kc8 {#5/245 0 (Kb7)} 70. Qxe6+ {#108/1 0 (g5)} Kb8 {1/0 0} 71. g5 {1/0 0} Kc7 {1/0 0} 72. f4 {1/0 0} Kb8 {1/0 0} 73. g6 {1/0 0} Ka8 {1/0 0} 74. f5 {1/0 0} Kb8 {1/0 0} 75. f6 {1/0 0} Kb7 {1/0 0} 76. f7 {1/0 0} Ka7 {1/0 0} 77. f8=Q {1/0 0} Kb7 {1/1 0} 78. g7 {1/1 0} Ka7 {1/0 0} 79. g8=Q {1/0 0} Kb7 {1/1 0} 80. Qfe7# {#1/0 0} 1-0
[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 25.0min+5.0sek"]
[Site "AMD"]
[Date "2024.10.25"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Lc0 v0.31.2"]
[Black "Stockfish"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C16"]
[Annotator "1.96;2.10"]
[PlyCount "159"]
[TimeControl "1500+5"]
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 Ne7 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 b6 7. Qg4 Ng6 8. h4 h5 9. Qd1 Qd7 10. Be2 Ba6 11. Bxh5 Qb5 12. Be2 Qa5 13. Bxa6 Nxa6 14. Bg5 Qxc3+ 15. Kf1 c5 16. Ne2 Qc4 17. c3 Nb8 18. Kg1 Nc6 19. h5 Nge7 20. Rh3 Rc8 21. Qd2 Qb3 22. a4 Nf5 23. a5 bxa5 24. g4 Nh6 25. Rg3 Qc4 26. Qd1 Ng8 27. dxc5 Qxc5 28. Nd4 Nge7 29. Rb1 Rb8 30. Rxb8+ Nxb8 31. Qa4+ Nd7 32. Re3 Nc8 33. Nf5 {1.96/20 224} Rg8 {2.10/37 182} 34. Nd4 {2.05/21 0} Ncb6 {2.45/41 751} 35. Qc2 {2.27/21 0} Nf8 {2.58/29 40} 36. Re1 {2.29/19 0} Qc4 {2.69/38 331} 37. Kg2 {2.38/19 1} Kd7 {2.89/41 268 (Th8)} 38. Be3 {2.54/17 161} Ke8 {2.83/35 0} 39. f3 {3.21/20 294} Rh8 {3.15/34 0} 40. Qb1 {3.43/21 2 (Lg5)} Nfd7 {3.44/32 105} 41. Nxe6 {3.79/22 78} fxe6 {3.81/30 0} 42. Qg6+ {3.65/21 25} Kd8 {3.79/28 0} 43. Qxg7 {3.43/20 76} Re8 {3.99/32 0} 44. h6 {3.28/19 34 (Df7)} Nf8 {3.15/24 10} 45. h7 {3.25/18 53} Nxh7 {3.56/31 0} 46. Qxh7 {3.15/17 28} Qc7 {3.59/27 3} 47. Qg6 {3.19/15 31} Qc6 {3.93/31 5 (Kd7)} 48. Rh1 {3.78/14 141} a4 {4.29/34 0} 49. Rh7 {4.20/15 50} d4 {4.53/30 0} 50. cxd4 {4.45/15 118} Kc8 {4.78/35 0} 51. Rxa7 {5.01/15 47} Kb8 {4.91/31 0 (Tf8)} 52. Ra5 {6.25/14 65 (Ta6)} Rf8 {4.19/25 11} 53. d5 {6.29/15 32} Nxd5 {4.47/29 14} 54. Ba7+ {7.12/15 55 (Db1+)} Kc8 {8.25/32 41} 55. Qh6 {8.01/15 2} Qe8 {9.02/28 9 (Sf4+)} 56. Bc5 {11.80/10 66} Rg8 {9.46/33 0 (Th8)} 57. Bd6 {13.93/10 54 (Ta8+)} Rh8 {#17/43 8 (Dd7)} 58. Qg7 {18.25/10 24} Ne7 {199.80/67 0} 59. Bxe7 {19.84/10 25 (Ta8+)} Rg8 {#14/62 3} 60. Qf6 {31.79/9 19 (Dxg8)} Qg6 {199.61/30 4} 61. Qf4 {21.79/8 18 (Dxg6)} Qd3 {#12/70 8 (Dc2+)} 62. Kg3 {27.04/8 20} Qc3 {#11/78 0} 63. Bb4 {35.68/7 9 (Tc5+)} Qc6 {#11/72 5} 64. Rc5 {39.01/7 18} Qxc5 {#10/92 0} 65. Bxc5 {63.10/7 5} Rd8 {#9/94 1 (Tg7)} 66. Qxa4 {39.18/6 18} Kc7 {#8/108 0} 67. Qa6 {69.03/6 9 (Db5)} Rd1 {#7/128 6 (Td3)} 68. Bd6+ {#111/1 0} Rxd6 {#6/245 0} 69. Qxd6+ {#110/1 0} Kc8 {#5/245 0 (Kb7)} 70. Qxe6+ {#108/1 0 (g5)} Kb8 {1/0 0} 71. g5 {1/0 0} Kc7 {1/0 0} 72. f4 {1/0 0} Kb8 {1/0 0} 73. g6 {1/0 0} Ka8 {1/0 0} 74. f5 {1/0 0} Kb8 {1/0 0} 75. f6 {1/0 0} Kb7 {1/0 0} 76. f7 {1/0 0} Ka7 {1/0 0} 77. f8=Q {1/0 0} Kb7 {1/1 0} 78. g7 {1/1 0} Ka7 {1/0 0} 79. g8=Q {1/0 0} Kb7 {1/1 0} 80. Qfe7# {#1/0 0} 1-0
[/pgn]
Peter.
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fishpov
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:05 pm
Re: How to have a position checked?
Here Shashchess analysis .
It is win for white because the evaluation keeps increasing over time after 2 hours
[d]4k2r/p2nnpp1/4p3/p1qpP1BP/Q2N2P1/2P1R3/5P2/6K1 b k - 0 1
Analysis by ShashChess 37 High Tal:
....
1...Nc8 2.Nf5 Rg8 3.Nd4 Ncb6 4.Qc2 Nf8 5.Kg2 Qc4 6.Re1 a4 7.Rb1 a3 8.Rb3 f6 9.Rxa3 fxg5 10.Rxa7 Nc8 11.Ra8 Kf7 12.Qb1 Qxc3 13.Qb7+ Ne7
White is clearly better: +/- (1.34) Depth: 19/47 00:00:02 6464kN
1...Nc8 2.Nf5 Rg8 3.Nd4 Ncb6 4.Qc2 Nf8 5.Kg2 Qc4 6.Re1 Rh8 7.f3 a4 8.Rb1 Qc7 9.f4 Nfd7 10.Nxe6 fxe6 11.Qg6+ Kf8 12.Qxe6 Nc5 13.Qg6 Qc8 14.f5 Qa6 15.Re1 Qc4 16.Be7+ Kxe7 17.Qxg7+ Kd8 18.Qxh8+ Kc7 19.Qg7+ Nbd7 20.e6 Qa2+ 21.Kf3 Qd2
White is clearly better: +/- (1.43) Depth: 20/47 00:00:03 9730kN
1...Qb6 2.Rf3 Qb1+ 3.Kh2 Qb7 4.Kg2 Nc8 5.Nc6 Nc5 6.Qf4 Nd3 7.Rxd3 Qxc6 8.h6 Rh7 9.hxg7 Rxg7 10.Qf6 Rxg5 11.Qxg5 Ne7 12.Qe3 Ng6 13.Kg3 Qc7 14.f4 Qe7 15.Kg2 Qh4 16.Qg3 Qh6
White is better: +/- (1.14) Depth: 21/47 00:00:05 15988kN
.....................
1...Nc8 2.Nf5 Rg8 3.Nd4 Rf8 4.Nb5 Qb6 5.Kg2 a6 6.Nd4 Na7 7.Re1 Rh8 8.Ra1 Qc7 9.Bh4 Nc8 10.f4 Qxc3 11.Qxa5 Qxa5 12.Rxa5 Ndb6 13.Rxa6 Nc4 14.Bf2 Kd7 15.Nf3 Nb2 16.Ra3 Nc4 17.Rb3 Rf8 18.Rb7+ Kc6 19.Rb8 Kc7 20.Ra8 Kb7 21.Ra2 Kc6 22.Kg3 Rh8 23.Ra6+ Kb7 24.Ra1 Kc6 25.Ra2 Rf8 26.Ra8
White is clearly better: +- (2.46) Depth: 43/95 00:37:23 6916MN
1...Nc8 2.Nf5 Rh7 3.Nd4 Ncb6 4.Qc2 Nf8 5.Re1 a4 6.Kg2 a3 7.f4 g6 8.h6 Kd7 9.Rb1 Kc7 10.Rb5 Qc4 11.Ra5 Kb7 12.Nb5 Kb8 13.Nxa3 Qc6 14.Be7 Nfd7 15.Bd6+ Kb7 16.Nb5 a6 17.Nd4 Qc4 18.g5 Rh8 19.Ra2 Rc8 20.Bb4 Ka7 21.Be7 Ka8 22.Qb1 Rh8
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.52) Depth: 44/92 00:49:50 9211MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 g6 3.h6 Ng8 4.Qa3 Qc5 5.Qa2 Ne7 6.Qa4 a6 7.Kg2 Qc7 8.Rh3 Qb6 9.Bf6 Rh7 10.Rh1 Ng8 11.g5 Qb2+ 12.Qc2 Qxc2+ 13.Nxc2 Ngxf6 14.exf6 Kd8 15.Ne3 Kc7 16.c4 d4 17.Ng4 Kb6 18.Kf3 Kc5 19.Ke4 Rh8 20.Ra1 Rb8 21.Rxa5+ Kb4 22.Ra1 Rd8 23.h7 d3 24.Nh6 Nc5+ 25.Kf3 Rh8 26.Nxf7
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.61) Depth: 45/96 01:02:24 11476MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 Ng8 3.Qa3 Qc5 4.Qxc5 Nxc5 5.c4 dxc4 6.Rc3 Ne4 7.Rxc4 Nxg5 8.fxg5 Kd7 9.Nb5 a6 10.Rd4+ Kc6 11.Nd6 Ne7 12.Nxf7 Rg8 13.Rc4+ Kd5 14.Ra4 Ra8 15.Kh2 Kc5 16.Kg3 Kb5 17.Rf4 Nc6 18.g6 a4 19.Nd6+ Kc5 20.Rxa4 Nxe5 21.Ne4+ Kd5 22.g5 Nc6 23.Nf6+ Ke5 24.Kg4 Ne7 25.Ra5+ Kd6 26.Kf4 Nc6 27.Ne4+ Kc7 28.Ra3 Rf8+ 29.Kg3 Ra8 30.Rf3 Ne5 31.Rf1 a5 32.h6 Nxg6 33.hxg7 Rg8
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.63) Depth: 46/89 01:07:10 12337MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 Ng8 3.Qa3 Qc5 4.Qxc5 Nxc5 5.c4 dxc4 6.Rc3 Ne4 7.Rxc4 Nxg5 8.fxg5 Kd7 9.Nb5 a6 10.Rd4+ Kc6 11.Nd6 Ne7 12.Nxf7 Rg8 13.Rc4+ Kd5 14.Ra4 Ra8 15.Kh2 Kc5 16.Kg3 Kb5 17.Rf4 Nc6 18.g6 a4 19.Nd6+ Kc5 20.Rxa4 Nxe5 21.Ne4+ Kd5 22.g5 Nc6 23.Nf6+ Ke5 24.Kg4 Ne7 25.Ra5+ Kd6 26.Kf4 Nc6 27.Ne4+ Kc7 28.Ra3 Rf8+ 29.Kg3 Ra8 30.Rf3 Ne5 31.Rf1 a5 32.h6 Nxg6 33.hxg7 Rg8
White is clearly better: +- (2.40 ++) Depth: 47/101 01:12:33 13314MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 Ng8 3.Qa3 a4 4.Re2 Qc5 5.Qxc5 Nxc5 6.Rb2 a5 7.Rb8+ Kd7 8.Rf8 a3 9.Rd8+ Kc7 10.Nb5+ Kc6 11.Nxa3 Ne4 12.Nc2 a4 13.Be7 Nxc3 14.Bd6 d4 15.Nxd4+ Kd5 16.Nf3 g6 17.Ng5 gxh5 18.Nxf7 Rh7 19.Ng5 Rb7 20.Rxg8 hxg4 21.Kf2 Rb1 22.Ra8 Ne4+ 23.Nxe4 Kxe4 24.Rxa4+ Kf5 25.Rb4 Ra1 26.Rb7
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.77) Depth: 47/101 01:44:03 19012MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 Ng8 3.Qa3 a4 4.Re2 Qc5 5.Qxc5 Nxc5 6.Rb2 a5 7.Rb8+ Kd7 8.Rf8 a3 9.Rd8+ Kc7 10.Nb5+ Kc6 11.Nxa3 Ne4 12.Nc2 a4 13.Be7 Nxc3 14.Bd6 d4 15.Nxd4+ Kd5 16.Nf3 g6 17.Ng5 gxh5 18.Nxf7 Rh7 19.Ng5 Rb7 20.Rxg8 hxg4 21.Kf2 Rb1 22.Ra8 Ne4+ 23.Nxe4 Kxe4 24.Rxa4+ Kf5 25.Rb4 Ra1 26.Rb7
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.83 --) Depth: 48/100 02:19:04 25335MN
It is win for white because the evaluation keeps increasing over time after 2 hours
[d]4k2r/p2nnpp1/4p3/p1qpP1BP/Q2N2P1/2P1R3/5P2/6K1 b k - 0 1
Analysis by ShashChess 37 High Tal:
....
1...Nc8 2.Nf5 Rg8 3.Nd4 Ncb6 4.Qc2 Nf8 5.Kg2 Qc4 6.Re1 a4 7.Rb1 a3 8.Rb3 f6 9.Rxa3 fxg5 10.Rxa7 Nc8 11.Ra8 Kf7 12.Qb1 Qxc3 13.Qb7+ Ne7
White is clearly better: +/- (1.34) Depth: 19/47 00:00:02 6464kN
1...Nc8 2.Nf5 Rg8 3.Nd4 Ncb6 4.Qc2 Nf8 5.Kg2 Qc4 6.Re1 Rh8 7.f3 a4 8.Rb1 Qc7 9.f4 Nfd7 10.Nxe6 fxe6 11.Qg6+ Kf8 12.Qxe6 Nc5 13.Qg6 Qc8 14.f5 Qa6 15.Re1 Qc4 16.Be7+ Kxe7 17.Qxg7+ Kd8 18.Qxh8+ Kc7 19.Qg7+ Nbd7 20.e6 Qa2+ 21.Kf3 Qd2
White is clearly better: +/- (1.43) Depth: 20/47 00:00:03 9730kN
1...Qb6 2.Rf3 Qb1+ 3.Kh2 Qb7 4.Kg2 Nc8 5.Nc6 Nc5 6.Qf4 Nd3 7.Rxd3 Qxc6 8.h6 Rh7 9.hxg7 Rxg7 10.Qf6 Rxg5 11.Qxg5 Ne7 12.Qe3 Ng6 13.Kg3 Qc7 14.f4 Qe7 15.Kg2 Qh4 16.Qg3 Qh6
White is better: +/- (1.14) Depth: 21/47 00:00:05 15988kN
.....................
1...Nc8 2.Nf5 Rg8 3.Nd4 Rf8 4.Nb5 Qb6 5.Kg2 a6 6.Nd4 Na7 7.Re1 Rh8 8.Ra1 Qc7 9.Bh4 Nc8 10.f4 Qxc3 11.Qxa5 Qxa5 12.Rxa5 Ndb6 13.Rxa6 Nc4 14.Bf2 Kd7 15.Nf3 Nb2 16.Ra3 Nc4 17.Rb3 Rf8 18.Rb7+ Kc6 19.Rb8 Kc7 20.Ra8 Kb7 21.Ra2 Kc6 22.Kg3 Rh8 23.Ra6+ Kb7 24.Ra1 Kc6 25.Ra2 Rf8 26.Ra8
White is clearly better: +- (2.46) Depth: 43/95 00:37:23 6916MN
1...Nc8 2.Nf5 Rh7 3.Nd4 Ncb6 4.Qc2 Nf8 5.Re1 a4 6.Kg2 a3 7.f4 g6 8.h6 Kd7 9.Rb1 Kc7 10.Rb5 Qc4 11.Ra5 Kb7 12.Nb5 Kb8 13.Nxa3 Qc6 14.Be7 Nfd7 15.Bd6+ Kb7 16.Nb5 a6 17.Nd4 Qc4 18.g5 Rh8 19.Ra2 Rc8 20.Bb4 Ka7 21.Be7 Ka8 22.Qb1 Rh8
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.52) Depth: 44/92 00:49:50 9211MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 g6 3.h6 Ng8 4.Qa3 Qc5 5.Qa2 Ne7 6.Qa4 a6 7.Kg2 Qc7 8.Rh3 Qb6 9.Bf6 Rh7 10.Rh1 Ng8 11.g5 Qb2+ 12.Qc2 Qxc2+ 13.Nxc2 Ngxf6 14.exf6 Kd8 15.Ne3 Kc7 16.c4 d4 17.Ng4 Kb6 18.Kf3 Kc5 19.Ke4 Rh8 20.Ra1 Rb8 21.Rxa5+ Kb4 22.Ra1 Rd8 23.h7 d3 24.Nh6 Nc5+ 25.Kf3 Rh8 26.Nxf7
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.61) Depth: 45/96 01:02:24 11476MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 Ng8 3.Qa3 Qc5 4.Qxc5 Nxc5 5.c4 dxc4 6.Rc3 Ne4 7.Rxc4 Nxg5 8.fxg5 Kd7 9.Nb5 a6 10.Rd4+ Kc6 11.Nd6 Ne7 12.Nxf7 Rg8 13.Rc4+ Kd5 14.Ra4 Ra8 15.Kh2 Kc5 16.Kg3 Kb5 17.Rf4 Nc6 18.g6 a4 19.Nd6+ Kc5 20.Rxa4 Nxe5 21.Ne4+ Kd5 22.g5 Nc6 23.Nf6+ Ke5 24.Kg4 Ne7 25.Ra5+ Kd6 26.Kf4 Nc6 27.Ne4+ Kc7 28.Ra3 Rf8+ 29.Kg3 Ra8 30.Rf3 Ne5 31.Rf1 a5 32.h6 Nxg6 33.hxg7 Rg8
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.63) Depth: 46/89 01:07:10 12337MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 Ng8 3.Qa3 Qc5 4.Qxc5 Nxc5 5.c4 dxc4 6.Rc3 Ne4 7.Rxc4 Nxg5 8.fxg5 Kd7 9.Nb5 a6 10.Rd4+ Kc6 11.Nd6 Ne7 12.Nxf7 Rg8 13.Rc4+ Kd5 14.Ra4 Ra8 15.Kh2 Kc5 16.Kg3 Kb5 17.Rf4 Nc6 18.g6 a4 19.Nd6+ Kc5 20.Rxa4 Nxe5 21.Ne4+ Kd5 22.g5 Nc6 23.Nf6+ Ke5 24.Kg4 Ne7 25.Ra5+ Kd6 26.Kf4 Nc6 27.Ne4+ Kc7 28.Ra3 Rf8+ 29.Kg3 Ra8 30.Rf3 Ne5 31.Rf1 a5 32.h6 Nxg6 33.hxg7 Rg8
White is clearly better: +- (2.40 ++) Depth: 47/101 01:12:33 13314MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 Ng8 3.Qa3 a4 4.Re2 Qc5 5.Qxc5 Nxc5 6.Rb2 a5 7.Rb8+ Kd7 8.Rf8 a3 9.Rd8+ Kc7 10.Nb5+ Kc6 11.Nxa3 Ne4 12.Nc2 a4 13.Be7 Nxc3 14.Bd6 d4 15.Nxd4+ Kd5 16.Nf3 g6 17.Ng5 gxh5 18.Nxf7 Rh7 19.Ng5 Rb7 20.Rxg8 hxg4 21.Kf2 Rb1 22.Ra8 Ne4+ 23.Nxe4 Kxe4 24.Rxa4+ Kf5 25.Rb4 Ra1 26.Rb7
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.77) Depth: 47/101 01:44:03 19012MN
1...Qb6 2.f4 Ng8 3.Qa3 a4 4.Re2 Qc5 5.Qxc5 Nxc5 6.Rb2 a5 7.Rb8+ Kd7 8.Rf8 a3 9.Rd8+ Kc7 10.Nb5+ Kc6 11.Nxa3 Ne4 12.Nc2 a4 13.Be7 Nxc3 14.Bd6 d4 15.Nxd4+ Kd5 16.Nf3 g6 17.Ng5 gxh5 18.Nxf7 Rh7 19.Ng5 Rb7 20.Rxg8 hxg4 21.Kf2 Rb1 22.Ra8 Ne4+ 23.Nxe4 Kxe4 24.Rxa4+ Kf5 25.Rb4 Ra1 26.Rb7
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.83 --) Depth: 48/100 02:19:04 25335MN
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jefk
- Posts: 786
- Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:07 pm
- Location: the Netherlands
- Full name: Jef Kaan
Re: How to have a position checked?
fishpov wrote
expecting that maybe magically after 20 hrs of analysis or so the eval would
suddenly drop back to zero (the latter can happen if there is eg. +1.5 eval
with eg opposite bishops but then the eval wouldn't be increasing after 2 hrs).
Meanwhile we of course still don't know for sure if Black can always win after 1.g4
(imo this is quite likely).
some people here say that's not a 'proof' (*);win for white because the evaluation keeps increasing over time after 2 hours
expecting that maybe magically after 20 hrs of analysis or so the eval would
suddenly drop back to zero (the latter can happen if there is eg. +1.5 eval
with eg opposite bishops but then the eval wouldn't be increasing after 2 hrs).
Meanwhile we of course still don't know for sure if Black can always win after 1.g4
(imo this is quite likely).
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jefk
- Posts: 786
- Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:07 pm
- Location: the Netherlands
- Full name: Jef Kaan
-
Hamster
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 6:38 pm
- Location: Wien
Re: How to have a position checked?
Yes, that is exactly the game. Here the link to the ICCF-Website, not sure everyone can access it.Found Spiegel W.-Loeschnauer R. 2020 fitting the first 32 moves, having had a Backward of this game, that ended with 1-0 after 50 moves
https://www.iccf.com/game?id=1183567
Thank you for checking this position, now I am sure that Black is lost already. I will try to go back myself and see which is the losing move. For Stockfish dev version It feels like depth 50 seems to be a good depth and as pointed out by another poster, increasing evals are important. Probably valuations that are >2.5 indicate a loss, maybe even >2.2 if earlier in the position. That is just my feeling at the moment.