toga and hash tables

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Peter Berger
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:56 pm

Re: toga and hash tables

Post by Peter Berger »

I have done tests on this question in a now rather distant past. ;)

At least with chessprograms from 2007/8 on a single core increasing hashtable size above 16MB didn't really improve the playing strength in a measurable way at all ( as far as I recall with the single exception of Junior).

This was certainly true for Crafty btw where I had a huge enough number of games for the resullts to be statistically significant. At least on a PC Crafty with 16 MB Hashsize wasn't weaker than with 64 or 256 MB Hash.
I got improvements on testpositions with bigger hash sizes but the relevance for game results seemed to be hard to measure if it even existed.

So I am not suprised to read this statement about Toga, but I wonder whether you'd get different results with other engines , say your own one.

Greetings.
Peter
bnemias
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:21 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: toga and hash tables

Post by bnemias »

Uri Blass wrote:I read a claim that toga unlike other engines does not earn or almost does not earn from more hash tables relative to the default hash of 16 MB
I haven't done any of the tests you mention. But I do run toga on an embedded device on FICS. It has 32MB ram total. I can say that running on 8MB hash is no serious handicap-- people have even accused me of lying about the hardware, so I would say it plays better than most people expect even on just 8MB hash.
Uri Blass
Posts: 10803
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: toga and hash tables

Post by Uri Blass »

Peter Berger wrote:I have done tests on this question in a now rather distant past. ;)

At least with chessprograms from 2007/8 on a single core increasing hashtable size above 16MB didn't really improve the playing strength in a measurable way at all ( as far as I recall with the single exception of Junior).

This was certainly true for Crafty btw where I had a huge enough number of games for the resullts to be statistically significant. At least on a PC Crafty with 16 MB Hashsize wasn't weaker than with 64 or 256 MB Hash.
I got improvements on testpositions with bigger hash sizes but the relevance for game results seemed to be hard to measure if it even existed.

So I am not suprised to read this statement about Toga, but I wonder whether you'd get different results with other engines , say your own one.

Greetings.
Peter
What is the time control that you tested?
Peter Berger
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:56 pm

Re: toga and hash tables

Post by Peter Berger »

Uri Blass wrote:
Peter Berger wrote:I have done tests on this question in a now rather distant past. ;)

At least with chessprograms from 2007/8 on a single core increasing hashtable size above 16MB didn't really improve the playing strength in a measurable way at all ( as far as I recall with the single exception of Junior).

This was certainly true for Crafty btw where I had a huge enough number of games for the resullts to be statistically significant. At least on a PC Crafty with 16 MB Hashsize wasn't weaker than with 64 or 256 MB Hash.
I got improvements on testpositions with bigger hash sizes but the relevance for game results seemed to be hard to measure if it even existed.

So I am not suprised to read this statement about Toga, but I wonder whether you'd get different results with other engines , say your own one.

Greetings.
Peter
What is the time control that you tested?
Time control was 30 5 Fischer time control.
Jouni
Posts: 3621
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm
Full name: Jouni Uski

Re: toga and hash tables

Post by Jouni »

Big hash and tablebases are 2 things, which have in practice ZERO effect on playing strength. But if hardware is good they don't probably hurt engine :)

Jouni