what to post where

[adams161]

Hi,

I haven't logged on much in last few months and in the last two days checking out the forum i've grown confused on what gets posted where. In particular this new cloning issue.

Now i understand that threads relating to the authenticity of an engine or is it a clone ( both pro and con) go in this new forum ( which i'm going to say hey make it public its a pain to have to log in just to check a forum for posts).

If i want to discuss say robolito and its strength, say i ran some test games, does that belong in a certain place? Is there a rule that clones can't be discussed in the main forum now? Or is it only involve if we think its an illegal copy? And again i'm not totally sure that's been proven with robolito (not that i'm entering that debate or suggesting that there is not a likely answer to that either way). If robolito was known to be a clone but was a legal copy or derivation would that make a difference? Can links to latest engine downloads be posted or asked for such as robolito, or must the authenticity of the engine be guaranteed first?

I've developed an interest in uci engines as i'm writing a little java interface to the internet chess club, that can open winboard and uci engines in examine mode there on icc, and allow engine analysis while examining. http://www.adam16mr.org/icc39/junior2.jpg is me analyzing with Junior ( sold by ICC) running.

Mike

[alpha123]

Hi,

I haven't logged on much in last few months and in the last two days checking out the forum i've grown confused on what gets posted where. In particular this new cloning issue.

Now i understand that threads relating to the authenticity of an engine or is it a clone ( both pro and con) go in this new forum ( which i'm going to say hey make it public its a pain to have to log in just to check a forum for posts).

If i want to discuss say robolito and its strength, say i ran some test games, does that belong in a certain place? Is there a rule that clones can't be discussed in the main forum now? Or is it only involve if we think its an illegal copy? And again i'm not totally sure that's been proven with robolito (not that i'm entering that debate or suggesting that there is not a likely answer to that either way). If robolito was known to be a clone but was a legal copy or derivation would that make a difference? Can links to latest engine downloads be posted or asked for such as robolito, or must the authenticity of the engine be guaranteed first?

I've developed an interest in uci engines as i'm writing a little java interface to the internet chess club, that can open winboard and uci engines in examine mode there on icc, and allow engine analysis while examining. http://www.adam16mr.org/icc39/junior2.jpg is me analyzing with Junior ( sold by ICC) running.

Mike

Didn't know you had an account here. Hi.

Games/test should probably go it the Tournaments and Matches forum.

I dunno about links. Engine Origins, probably, just to be safe.

Peter

[hgm]

I've developed an interest in uci engines as i'm writing a little java interface to the internet chess club, that can open winboard and uci engines in examine mode there on icc, and allow engine analysis while examining. http://www.adam16mr.org/icc39/junior2.jpg is me analyzing with Junior ( sold by ICC) running.

Isn't that possible in WinBoard already? If not, is there a reason why it should not be possible? Analyzing with an engine does work when observing an ICS game, and I don't see that examining (or playing, for that matter) would be much different.

But perhaps we don't want to make it too easy for people to cheat?

That would not apply to examining, though. (I think).

[adams161]

I didn't know it was possible in winboard. my understanding was if you loaded a computer in winboard as -fcp in ics mode it automated play. this just turns on an engine in examine mode ( if you choose to start one) and shuts off when you stop examining or start playing.

turning on engines in examine mode or even observing mode is not unprecedented in human accounts connected to icc. Icc's official interface dasher, will do this. Chess assistant when connected to icc offers similar functionality. So does chess partner when i last tried it some years ago. but as to winboard i wasnt aware you could. ...edit... babaschess on fics will do this as well. .. end edit...

My intentions for my interface are not so serious right now. I'm just screwing around with java really. It offers some other nice features that are unique to my inteface as well such as a tabbed game board, view a 30 game simul for example on one board. Also with any luck i may try to port some of the code to a phone one day when i get my droid. contract lets me in may.

Mike

[hgm]

It is true that the current WinBoard, when you have loaded an engine in -ics mode (using -zp = -zippyPlay), it would automatically have the engine play when you engage in a game (because you 'match' someone, or because you accept the chalenge of an opponent). But when observing, the engine remains passive, and can be set to analyze mode by clicking 'Analyze' in the Mode menu.

It would be trivial to do the same in icsExamine mode. But I guess what you really want is that you can play a game yourself, and then only switch on the engine when you start examining it afterwards. So you want to silence the engine in IcsPlayingWhite and IcsPlayingBack mode, despite the fact that it is loaded. But the -icsEngineAnalyze option could easily be used to also do that.

[adams161]

all the interfaces i listed that allow engine analysis in examine mode, have explicitly coded security policies to make sure the engine turns off in play. This keeps the user out of trouble with speedtrap on icc or comptuerabuse on fics. the engine will never turn on or give hints or make moves when a human is logged in and playing.

Also for 15 years, winboard has appended to its interface line the engine when an engine is loaded, i.e. interface = "winboard + crafty.exe".

i would see people nervous about loading an engine in examine mode ( but playing human) if there interface said crafty, making anyone checking their interface variable, think they are a cheat.

Mike

[hgm]

Good point. Of course I could make a special option similar to -zippyPlay, e.g. -zippyAnalyze, that would load the engine, but suppress attaching the name of the engine to the interface line, and would shut off the engine during play, but would allow you to switch the engine to analysis mode when observing or analyzing a game.

[adams161]

only thing i should add is the engine should truly be passive and not fed moves unless the user has requested analysis. If the engine was on and watching an examined game but not giving analysis because the user didnt request it, it would still be using 90% of the cpu every time the user went to analyze or potentially observe. this means if they turn on analyzis half way through an examined or obsered game, the engine would now have to be updated with the game similar to a new game starting ( it was kept in the dark while the user was examining till the engine was turned on)

Mike

[Graham Banks]

Hi,

I haven't logged on much in last few months and in the last two days checking out the forum i've grown confused on what gets posted where. In particular this new cloning issue.

Now i understand that threads relating to the authenticity of an engine or is it a clone ( both pro and con) go in this new forum ( which i'm going to say hey make it public its a pain to have to log in just to check a forum for posts).

If i want to discuss say robolito and its strength, say i ran some test games, does that belong in a certain place? Is there a rule that clones can't be discussed in the main forum now? Or is it only involve if we think its an illegal copy? And again i'm not totally sure that's been proven with robolito (not that i'm entering that debate or suggesting that there is not a likely answer to that either way). If robolito was known to be a clone but was a legal copy or derivation would that make a difference? Can links to latest engine downloads be posted or asked for such as robolito, or must the authenticity of the engine be guaranteed first?

I've developed an interest in uci engines as i'm writing a little java interface to the internet chess club, that can open winboard and uci engines in examine mode there on icc, and allow engine analysis while examining. http://www.adam16mr.org/icc39/junior2.jpg is me analyzing with Junior ( sold by ICC) running.

Mike

With regards to discussions about clones or suspected clones, those happen in the new subforum to do with Engine Origins.
Any links go in that subforum also.
Results can be posted in the Matches and Tournaments subforum.

Cheers,
Graham.

[adams161]

Peter C (alpha)

been on talkchess for years both current forum and before the CCC when it was ccc. Same with winboard forum. i'm the author of pulsar www.adam16mr.org/pulsar.html which i wrote from scratch and plays regular chess, crazyhouse, atomic, losers, suicide/giveaway, three checks, two kings, fischer random and shatranj ( hope i didn't miss any

Mike