CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

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michiguel
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by michiguel »

Peter Skinner wrote:Hello everyone,

I have looked over the rules, and have tweaked a few for future events.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration:

1. FICS has agreed to facilitate computer accounts for the CCT tournament. Authors should sign up a human account first, then contact the Tournament Director with their desired engine account name to register their program account. The Tournament Director will then get the account registered, and an email will be dispatched to the particpating author with their account password. This usually will take no longer than 24 hours. (Registration form will handle the above if properly filled out)
1a. It is preferred that your computer account name be the same as your engine name. If this is not possible, please the Tournament Director.

2. Only the original author, Operator or a team member of the original program may enter and operate. The definition of a team member is as follows:

An individual who has internal knowledge of the program and is recognized by the author as a member of the development team.. i.e. Developer, book maker. This person must have advanced knowledge of the program, such as how the program is designed, hashing schemes, book making procedures..

2a. Operators will only be allowed under the following conditions:
2a1. The author must be online during the tournament to participate in discussions in channel 64, and in the event there is an issue with their program they can provide real time support to their operator.
2a2. The operator must use the account that the author has signed up. No exceptions will be made.
2a3. No operator can operate more than one program. No exceptions will be made.

3. Book authors will be required to enter with only one team. Two teams (entrants) will not be able to use the same book author. Books can be as unique as a chess program, thus should follow the same rules as one program per author.

4. To enter, you need to be an established author. This means that a program of yours must have a track record in some public environment such as previous official tournaments participation. If your program has not competed in a previous CCT tournament, or in live events like the WCCC, IPCCC, Leiden, then you must take one of the steps below before registration will be accepted.

3a. Ways to establish yourself as a recognized author are:
If Private, your engine should have an history of official tournament participation (World champs, ACCA, Previous CCT, Paderborn etc)
If private, send the engine to the testing team to get their approval or release of the engine to the public.
Send your engine to be tested with the CCRL.
**All new engine authors undergo this screening test, so this is normal.

Clone/Derivatives Rules

1. Each participant (engine) must an original work. No entry can contain code from another program, or be a "clone" of another program. This includes any "personality" settings of an originating program. This includes opening books.

2. Any engine that is found to be "clone" of another program or close to it (e.g. engine output, pondering information, analysis of positions) will be declared void by the Tournament Director after seeking advice from notable sources. The notable sources will be individuals that have no active standing in other projects, and are respected within the computer chess community.

3. The Tournament Director can ask for the compiled executable and corresponding source to the participating version of an engine to let it be examined by the previous mentioned notable sources. If the author of the engine that is suspect were to refuse to confirm the originality of his own work, the engine and the author will be disqualified from the CCT, and will no longer be able to participate in future events.

Rules:

1. Registration will be limited to one entry per author. If an author has two programs, they must choose which one to enter. This is now extended to book authors, which must decide to enter with one team only. There will be no exceptions.

2. No manually operated programs, and all programs must kibitz their evaluation, and book moves/TB hits if possible. Providing as much information as possible for the viewers and participants is key. It should also be noted that 1-3 lines of text is sufficient. Whispering is not the same as kibitzing, as the opponent can not see your evaluation. If your program is found to be whispering instead of kibitzing, you will be asked to disconnect, correct the issue, and return. This disconnection will count towards rule 5.

3. Participants can use any hardware they can attain. Participants choosing to use remotely located hardware are recommended to have a suitable back up solution in the event of an uncorrectable malfunction.

4 . In the event that there is a late withdrawal or uneven amounts of players, the TD can substitute a program in place of the departing entrant to keep the numbered entries the same. And to avoid a bye round.

5. In the event of a disconnection, the party will be given 10 minutes to return to complete the game and no more than 2 disconnections per game will be allowed. On the third time, the game will be a forfeit. It will be required to request the forfeited win immediately upon the third disconnection.

6 . In the event that a program can not continue a game due to interface or program issues, it will forfeit the game. Under no circumstances will a new game be formed or the game restarted.

7. If a program is not open for matches or arrives late for a scheduled round, after 20 minutes the game will be considered a forfeit. This is to eliminate one game holding up the tournament.

8. Seeding will be calculated on results from previous official tournaments. WCCC/Leiden/IPCCC/CCT/Testing Groups.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you all think of these?

Peter Skinner
CCT Tournament Director
Could if be possible to spell out the situation with EGTBs? Whatever it is, it will be better if it is crystal clear.

Miguel
Ferdy
Posts: 4848
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:15 pm
Location: Philippines

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Ferdy »

Ferdy wrote:
Peter Skinner wrote:Hello everyone,

I have looked over the rules, and have tweaked a few for future events.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration:

1. FICS has agreed to facilitate computer accounts for the CCT tournament. Authors should sign up a human account first, then contact the Tournament Director with their desired engine account name to register their program account. The Tournament Director will then get the account registered, and an email will be dispatched to the particpating author with their account password. This usually will take no longer than 24 hours. (Registration form will handle the above if properly filled out)
1a. It is preferred that your computer account name be the same as your engine name. If this is not possible, please the Tournament Director.

2. Only the original author, Operator or a team member of the original program may enter and operate. The definition of a team member is as follows:

An individual who has internal knowledge of the program and is recognized by the author as a member of the development team.. i.e. Developer, book maker. This person must have advanced knowledge of the program, such as how the program is designed, hashing schemes, book making procedures..

2a. Operators will only be allowed under the following conditions:
2a1. The author must be online during the tournament to participate in discussions in channel 64, and in the event there is an issue with their program they can provide real time support to their operator.
2a2. The operator must use the account that the author has signed up. No exceptions will be made.
2a3. No operator can operate more than one program. No exceptions will be made.

3. Book authors will be required to enter with only one team. Two teams (entrants) will not be able to use the same book author. Books can be as unique as a chess program, thus should follow the same rules as one program per author.

4. To enter, you need to be an established author. This means that a program of yours must have a track record in some public environment such as previous official tournaments participation. If your program has not competed in a previous CCT tournament, or in live events like the WCCC, IPCCC, Leiden, then you must take one of the steps below before registration will be accepted.

3a. Ways to establish yourself as a recognized author are:
If Private, your engine should have an history of official tournament participation (World champs, ACCA, Previous CCT, Paderborn etc)
If private, send the engine to the testing team to get their approval or release of the engine to the public.
Send your engine to be tested with the CCRL.
**All new engine authors undergo this screening test, so this is normal.

Clone/Derivatives Rules

1. Each participant (engine) must an original work. No entry can contain code from another program, or be a "clone" of another program. This includes any "personality" settings of an originating program. This includes opening books.

2. Any engine that is found to be "clone" of another program or close to it (e.g. engine output, pondering information, analysis of positions) will be declared void by the Tournament Director after seeking advice from notable sources. The notable sources will be individuals that have no active standing in other projects, and are respected within the computer chess community.

3. The Tournament Director can ask for the compiled executable and corresponding source to the participating version of an engine to let it be examined by the previous mentioned notable sources. If the author of the engine that is suspect were to refuse to confirm the originality of his own work, the engine and the author will be disqualified from the CCT, and will no longer be able to participate in future events.

Rules:

1. Registration will be limited to one entry per author. If an author has two programs, they must choose which one to enter. This is now extended to book authors, which must decide to enter with one team only. There will be no exceptions.

2. No manually operated programs, and all programs must kibitz their evaluation, and book moves/TB hits if possible. Providing as much information as possible for the viewers and participants is key. It should also be noted that 1-3 lines of text is sufficient. Whispering is not the same as kibitzing, as the opponent can not see your evaluation. If your program is found to be whispering instead of kibitzing, you will be asked to disconnect, correct the issue, and return. This disconnection will count towards rule 5.

3. Participants can use any hardware they can attain. Participants choosing to use remotely located hardware are recommended to have a suitable back up solution in the event of an uncorrectable malfunction.

4 . In the event that there is a late withdrawal or uneven amounts of players, the TD can substitute a program in place of the departing entrant to keep the numbered entries the same. And to avoid a bye round.

5. In the event of a disconnection, the party will be given 10 minutes to return to complete the game and no more than 2 disconnections per game will be allowed. On the third time, the game will be a forfeit. It will be required to request the forfeited win immediately upon the third disconnection.

6 . In the event that a program can not continue a game due to interface or program issues, it will forfeit the game. Under no circumstances will a new game be formed or the game restarted.

7. If a program is not open for matches or arrives late for a scheduled round, after 20 minutes the game will be considered a forfeit. This is to eliminate one game holding up the tournament.

8. Seeding will be calculated on results from previous official tournaments. WCCC/Leiden/IPCCC/CCT/Testing Groups.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you all think of these?

Peter Skinner
CCT Tournament Director
Just a suggestion in item 2.

2. Only the original author, Operator or a team member of the original program may enter and operate. The definition of a team member is as follows:

An individual who is recognized by the author as a member of the development team.. i.e. Developer, book maker. This person must have knowledge in running the program online.

Much simpler :)
Revision:
2. Only the original author, Operator or a team member of the original program may enter and operate. The definition of a team member is as follows:

An individual who is recognized by the author as a member of the development team.. i.e. Developer, book maker. The operator of the team must have knowledge in running the program online.
Suj
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:40 am

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Suj »

Seems you are not mentioning your book loss to sjeng in blitz......


This happens to be a book that i had to use since erdo book was playing red moves... what would you have done???

Use a third person book untested...I'd prefer a a test book and own work any day
Last edited by Suj on Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stephan Vermeire (Brutus)
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Stephan Vermeire (Brutus) »

Peter Skinner wrote:3. Book authors will be required to enter with only one team. Two teams (entrants) will not be able to use the same book author. Books can be as unique as a chess program, thus should follow the same rules as one program per author.
What about publically available books? What if the book-author isn't part of any team and two separate teams want to use one of his books?

I don't like the booklimit at all. It adds to untrue differences between engines. If an author chooses to cooperate with one particular engine only, that's fine of course. In that case the book-author can be considered to be part of that team. But why limiting engines to use publically available stuff?

I would suggest the following:
3. Book authors have the right to restrict a book to one single participant in the tourney.
Suj
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:40 am

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Suj »

If you feel everyone could draw sjeng why didnt they??Dont base it on one lucky draw my friend...look at the big pciture...

Sometimes it is also wise to draw and cluster does not mean it has to win 100% though I would love that to happen but be practical draw sometimes is not bad.
garybelton
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:08 pm

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by garybelton »

I don't like the booklimit at all. It adds to untrue differences between engines.
I know you don't mean "booklimit" as limited number of moves in this context but your post raises this point (in your venacular), and it's the complete opposite to what you say, correctly said it is:

"Unlimited books add to the untrue differences between engines"

By this I mean the only way an iPhone can draw with a cluster is because of an unlimited book. Therefore an unlimited book makes an untrue difference (of zero) between the iPhone engine and the engine running on the 100 core cluster. In reality the true difference between the engines is enormous.

From what I hear though people are not interested in the difference between Engine A and Engine B, they are interested in the difference between Engine A+Book A and Engine B+Book B.

PS. Engine A+Book A and Engine B+Book A is also being stamped out, quite correctly I might add.
garybelton
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:08 pm

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by garybelton »

my friend
As you mentioned it, yes my book got crushed in the Sjeng game and my engine too (Don says "King Safety"). It was a crushing defeat and as we were dying you sent the message:

"gg".

I think that says a lot. I would never consider someone like you as "my friend" after that comment, let's just agree to disagree and have zero interaction.
Suj
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:40 am

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Suj »

Ok If I said gg and it sounded sarcastic I will surely apologise for that.

Please also remember your comment when you mentioned your best game was Flyingfatman vs Mission Control and you mentioning sjeng playing the tour only because rybka wasnt playing....

Dont you think I deserve an apology for your digs which you made earlier than mine???ie if you categorise mine as a dig and being sarcastic which i didnt... I did say gg to most competitors mostly thanking them for a game...

If you prefer no communication fine by me but facts have to be said and put right....
garybelton
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:08 pm

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by garybelton »

Flyingfatman vs Mission Control
FF vs. MC *is* one my favorite games of all time, along with Byrne-Fischer and the Rybka-Shredder game last year. FF vs MC is probably the most famous non-GM game I know, sorry you had to be the one to go down in flames in it, but at least you were part of history!
and you mentioning sjeng playing the tour only because rybka wasnt playing....


As I tried to explain numerous times to you in ch 64, I was parodying:

"When the cat is away, the mice will play".

I didn't mean Sjeng was only playing because Rybka wasn't. Unlike some other engines, I know GCP always participates against Rybka and doesn't hide. I was suggesting that because the cat (Rybka) was absent the mouse (Sjeng) was having a field day, so yes I was ribbing you that I think that Rybka cluster is better than Sjeng cluster, who knows - that may not be true now (but I secretly think it is).

Oh and by the way Erdo was excellent, he apologized for the book win, something he didn't have to do, and I asked if it was a server line or a new line and he told me it was mainly homework and I warmly congratulated him on it. I thought he had class.

Ok water under the bridge, I apologize to you now, you did to me, let's start again with a Google approach (ie. "Don't be evil"). :)
Suj
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:40 am

Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Suj »

By the way ,after r2 we used my book as Erdo book was playing red book moves.Diep game was a game full of red book moves.