This is a pretty tough one, as most programs want to play 1.fxg7, however 1.Rxe5! is better with the immediate threat of a discovered attack on the black Queen by 2.Re8+. Deep Junior 2010 seems to find this one in a reasonable amount of time with the exact continuation as it happened in the game. Rybka 3 gets it also, but only after thinking for a long time.
[d] r1r3k1/1bqn1ppp/5P2/1pppp1N1/p2n1B1P/P2P2P1/1PP2PB1/R2QR1K1 w - - 0 1
the position comes from this game:
[Date "2003.05.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Banet, Jean (FRA)"]
[Black "Alexandre Bisquert, Francisco (ESP)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A08"]
[WhiteElo "2466"]
[BlackElo "2474"]
[PlyCount "51"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. Ngf3 c5 5. g3 Nc6 6. Bg2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. Re1
b6 9. e5 Nd7 10. Nf1 Bb7 11. h4 b5 12. Bf4 a5 13. N1h2 a4 14. a3 Qc7 15. Ng4
Rfc8 16. Ng5 Nd4 17. Nf6+ Bxf6 18. exf6 e5 19. Rxe5 Nxe5 20. Qh5 gxf6 21. Re1
Ra6 22. Qxh7+ Kf8 23. c3 Ne6 24. Bxe5 fxe5 25. Rxe5 Re8 26. f4 1-0
Test Position 1.Rxe5!
Moderator: Ras
-
acase
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
- Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
- Full name: Andrew R Case
-
yanquis1972
- Posts: 1766
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
hmm, how do you define 'reasonable'? 
(and 'long')
took 10 minutes on an octal for DJ --
[+0.47] d=22 1.Rxe5 Nxe5 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7 Kf8 4.Re1 Ra6 (0:10:07) 12022765kN
[+0.18] d=22 1.c3 Nf5 (0:04:54) 6070288kN
[+0.61] d=21 1.c3 Nf5 2.Bh3 exf4 3.Re7 Nxe7 4.Qh5 Nxf6 5.Qxf7 Kh8 6.Ne6 Ne8 7.Nxc7 Rxc7 8.Re1 Nd6 9.Qxf4 Rd8 10.Re6 (0:02:59) 3704015kN
[+0.60] d=20 1.c3 Nc6 2.fxg7 Nf6 3.Be3 d4 4.Bd2 Kxg7 5.Ne4 Nxe4 6.Bxe4 f6 7.c4 bxc4 8.Qh5 Kh8 9.dxc4 (0:01:22) 1635764kN
[+0.68] d=19 1.c3 Nc6 2.fxg7 Nf6 3.Be3 d4 4.Bd2 Kxg7 5.Ne4 Nxe4 6.Bxe4 f6 7.Qh5 Kh8 8.Bh6 dxc3 9.bxc3 c4 10.dxc4 (0:00:52) 1027373kN
[+0.43] d=17 1.c3 (0:00:14) 237140kN
[+0.00] d=17 1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5 Kxg7 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Bg5 Kg8 6.Qg6 Kh8 (0:00:09) 148494kN
[+0.00] d=15 1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5 Kxg7 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Bg5 Kg8 6.Qg6 Kh8 (0:00:03) 38341kN
[-0.22] d=12 1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5 Kxg7 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Bd2 Kg8 6.Qg6 Kf8 7.c3 Nb3 8.Bh6 Ke7 9.Qg7 (0:00:00) 6177kN
[-0.54] d=12 1.fxg7 (0:00:00) 5080kN
[-1.02] d=12 1.Bd2 Nxf6 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Be3 Qd6 4.c4 b4 5.axb4 Nxb4 6.Ng5 (0:00:00) 1156kN
[-0.97] d=9 1.Bd2 Nxf6 2.Nf3 Nxf3 3.Qxf3 Re8 4.Bg5 Qd6 5.c3 (0:00:00) 158kN
[-1.06] d=9 1.Be3 Nxf6 2.Bh3 Re8 3.b4 h6 4.Bxd4 exd4 (0:00:00) 80kN
[-0.93] d=6 1.Be3 h6 2.fxg7 hxg5 3.c3 Nf5 (0:00:00) 12kN
[-2.07] d=6 1.c3 exf4 2.cxd4 gxf6 3.Nf3 fxg3 (0:00:00) 8kN
[-0.62] d=3 1.c3 exf4 2.cxd4 fxg3 (0:00:00) 1kN
[-0.67] d=3 1.Be3 gxf6 2.Bxd4 cxd4 (0:00:00) 0kN
[-1.24] d=3 1.Bd2 gxf6 2.Nf3 (0:00:00) 0kN
[-1.48] d=3 1.Bc1 gxf6 2.Nf3 (0:00:00) 0kN
[-1.69] d=3 1.Bxe5 Nxe5 2.f4 Nec6 (0:00:00) 0kN
my recommendations/guesses -- spark (im running it now & its already passed Rxe5 at d22 after giving it a long think), rybka dynamic (best bet), stockfish if you're willing to let it sit for a while.
(and 'long')took 10 minutes on an octal for DJ --
[+0.47] d=22 1.Rxe5 Nxe5 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7 Kf8 4.Re1 Ra6 (0:10:07) 12022765kN
[+0.18] d=22 1.c3 Nf5 (0:04:54) 6070288kN
[+0.61] d=21 1.c3 Nf5 2.Bh3 exf4 3.Re7 Nxe7 4.Qh5 Nxf6 5.Qxf7 Kh8 6.Ne6 Ne8 7.Nxc7 Rxc7 8.Re1 Nd6 9.Qxf4 Rd8 10.Re6 (0:02:59) 3704015kN
[+0.60] d=20 1.c3 Nc6 2.fxg7 Nf6 3.Be3 d4 4.Bd2 Kxg7 5.Ne4 Nxe4 6.Bxe4 f6 7.c4 bxc4 8.Qh5 Kh8 9.dxc4 (0:01:22) 1635764kN
[+0.68] d=19 1.c3 Nc6 2.fxg7 Nf6 3.Be3 d4 4.Bd2 Kxg7 5.Ne4 Nxe4 6.Bxe4 f6 7.Qh5 Kh8 8.Bh6 dxc3 9.bxc3 c4 10.dxc4 (0:00:52) 1027373kN
[+0.43] d=17 1.c3 (0:00:14) 237140kN
[+0.00] d=17 1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5 Kxg7 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Bg5 Kg8 6.Qg6 Kh8 (0:00:09) 148494kN
[+0.00] d=15 1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5 Kxg7 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Bg5 Kg8 6.Qg6 Kh8 (0:00:03) 38341kN
[-0.22] d=12 1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5 Kxg7 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Bd2 Kg8 6.Qg6 Kf8 7.c3 Nb3 8.Bh6 Ke7 9.Qg7 (0:00:00) 6177kN
[-0.54] d=12 1.fxg7 (0:00:00) 5080kN
[-1.02] d=12 1.Bd2 Nxf6 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Be3 Qd6 4.c4 b4 5.axb4 Nxb4 6.Ng5 (0:00:00) 1156kN
[-0.97] d=9 1.Bd2 Nxf6 2.Nf3 Nxf3 3.Qxf3 Re8 4.Bg5 Qd6 5.c3 (0:00:00) 158kN
[-1.06] d=9 1.Be3 Nxf6 2.Bh3 Re8 3.b4 h6 4.Bxd4 exd4 (0:00:00) 80kN
[-0.93] d=6 1.Be3 h6 2.fxg7 hxg5 3.c3 Nf5 (0:00:00) 12kN
[-2.07] d=6 1.c3 exf4 2.cxd4 gxf6 3.Nf3 fxg3 (0:00:00) 8kN
[-0.62] d=3 1.c3 exf4 2.cxd4 fxg3 (0:00:00) 1kN
[-0.67] d=3 1.Be3 gxf6 2.Bxd4 cxd4 (0:00:00) 0kN
[-1.24] d=3 1.Bd2 gxf6 2.Nf3 (0:00:00) 0kN
[-1.48] d=3 1.Bc1 gxf6 2.Nf3 (0:00:00) 0kN
[-1.69] d=3 1.Bxe5 Nxe5 2.f4 Nec6 (0:00:00) 0kN
my recommendations/guesses -- spark (im running it now & its already passed Rxe5 at d22 after giving it a long think), rybka dynamic (best bet), stockfish if you're willing to let it sit for a while.
-
Terry McCracken
- Posts: 16465
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
- Location: Canada
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
Well played by White! A definite SGM momentacase wrote:This is a pretty tough one, as most programs want to play 1.fxg7, however 1.Rxe5! is better with the immediate threat of a discovered attack on the black Queen by 2.Re8+. Deep Junior 2010 seems to find this one in a reasonable amount of time with the exact continuation as it happened in the game. Rybka 3 gets it also, but only after thinking for a long time.
[d] r1r3k1/1bqn1ppp/5P2/1pppp1N1/p2n1B1P/P2P2P1/1PP2PB1/R2QR1K1 w - - 0 1
the position comes from this game:
[Date "2003.05.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Banet, Jean (FRA)"]
[Black "Alexandre Bisquert, Francisco (ESP)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A08"]
[WhiteElo "2466"]
[BlackElo "2474"]
[PlyCount "51"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. Ngf3 c5 5. g3 Nc6 6. Bg2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. Re1
b6 9. e5 Nd7 10. Nf1 Bb7 11. h4 b5 12. Bf4 a5 13. N1h2 a4 14. a3 Qc7 15. Ng4
Rfc8 16. Ng5 Nd4 17. Nf6+ Bxf6 18. exf6 e5 19. Rxe5 Nxe5 20. Qh5 gxf6 21. Re1
Ra6 22. Qxh7+ Kf8 23. c3 Ne6 24. Bxe5 fxe5 25. Rxe5 Re8 26. f4 1-0
It takes time before machines understand the sacrifice...very inventive.
Terry McCracken
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yanquis1972
- Posts: 1766
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
yes, i am constantly amazed when such positions pop-up in OTB games. thanks andrew for bringing it to our attention.
btw, i noticed DJ finds Rxe5 'early' because it fails low on the fxg7 (well it actually wanted c3 first, but they transpose) -- i guess if rybka agrees, its possible fg is simply not good, but is it possible its also winning?
i ask because spark has been holding Rxe5 in its back pocket for some time now (ie, it does understand the move, & it is its second choice), but is preferring fxg7 up to this point, presumably just because of a slight eval difference.
btw, i noticed DJ finds Rxe5 'early' because it fails low on the fxg7 (well it actually wanted c3 first, but they transpose) -- i guess if rybka agrees, its possible fg is simply not good, but is it possible its also winning?
i ask because spark has been holding Rxe5 in its back pocket for some time now (ie, it does understand the move, & it is its second choice), but is preferring fxg7 up to this point, presumably just because of a slight eval difference.
-
yanquis1972
- Posts: 1766
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
spark passed again at d25, after another very long think, so moved on -- and guesswho sees this instantly:
Analysis by Rybka 3 Dynamic:
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7
= (0.00) Depth: 6 00:00:00 10kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kxg7
= (0.00) Depth: 7 00:00:00 17kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kxg7 4.Bh6+ Kh8 5.Bg5+ Kg8
= (0.00) Depth: 8 00:00:00 42kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kg8 4.Qh8+ Kf7 5.Qh5+ Kxg7 6.Bh6+
= (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:00 103kN
1.Rxe5
= (0.20 ++) Depth: 9 00:00:00 162kN
1.Rxe5
+/= (0.40 ++) Depth: 9 00:00:01 195kN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5[] 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7+
= (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:01 256kN
1.Rxe5
= (0.20 ++) Depth: 10 00:00:01 367kN
1.Rxe5
+/= (0.40 ++) Depth: 10 00:00:02 436kN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5[] 2.Qh5[] gxf6 3.Qxh7+[] Kf8[] 4.Re1[] Ra6 5.c3 Ne6 6.Bxe5 fxe5 7.Rxe5
+/- (0.71) Depth: 10 00:00:02 539kN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5[] 2.Qh5[] gxf6 3.Qxh7+[] Kf8[] 4.Re1[] Ra6 5.c3 Ne6 6.Bxe5 fxe5 7.Rxe5 Re8 8.Bh3 Bc8 9.Qh6+ Ke7 10.Nxf7 d4 11.Re4
+/- (0.90) Depth: 11 00:00:04 843kN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5[] 2.Qh5[] gxf6 3.Qxh7+[] Kf8[] 4.Re1[] Ra6 5.c3 Ne6 6.Bxe5 fxe5 7.Rxe5 Re8 8.Bh3 Bc8 9.h5 Qb7 10.h6 Ra7 11.Re1
+/- (0.94) Depth: 12 00:00:06 1297kN
1.Rxe5
+/- (1.14 ++) Depth: 13 00:00:09 1970kN
1.Rxe5 Nxf6 2.Re8+ Nxe8 3.Bxc7 Rxc7 4.Nf3 Ne6 5.Bh3 d4 6.Bxe6 fxe6 7.Ng5 Bd5 8.Qe2 h6
+/- (1.21) Depth: 13 00:00:13 2618kN
1.Rxe5 Nxf6 2.Re8+ Nxe8 3.Bxc7 Rxc7 4.Nf3 Ne6 5.Qd2 h6 6.Re1 Nf6
+/- (1.11) Depth: 14 00:00:15 3083kN
1.Rxe5 Nxf6 2.Re8+ Nxe8 3.Bxc7[] Rxc7 4.Nf3 Ne6 5.Qd2 h6 6.Re1 Nf6 7.Bh3 Bc8 8.c3 Re7
+/- (1.22) Depth: 15 00:00:21 4226kN
1.Rxe5 Nxf6 2.Re8+ Nxe8 3.Bxc7[] Rxc7 4.Nf3 Ne6 5.d4 Nd6 6.dxc5 Rxc5 7.Bh3 Re8 8.Qd3 g6 9.Re1 f5 10.Ng5 Ne4
+/- (1.24) Depth: 16 00:01:11 15705kN
)
Analysis by Rybka 3 Dynamic:
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7
= (0.00) Depth: 6 00:00:00 10kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kxg7
= (0.00) Depth: 7 00:00:00 17kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kxg7 4.Bh6+ Kh8 5.Bg5+ Kg8
= (0.00) Depth: 8 00:00:00 42kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kg8 4.Qh8+ Kf7 5.Qh5+ Kxg7 6.Bh6+
= (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:00 103kN
1.Rxe5
= (0.20 ++) Depth: 9 00:00:00 162kN
1.Rxe5
+/= (0.40 ++) Depth: 9 00:00:01 195kN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5[] 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7+
= (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:01 256kN
1.Rxe5
= (0.20 ++) Depth: 10 00:00:01 367kN
1.Rxe5
+/= (0.40 ++) Depth: 10 00:00:02 436kN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5[] 2.Qh5[] gxf6 3.Qxh7+[] Kf8[] 4.Re1[] Ra6 5.c3 Ne6 6.Bxe5 fxe5 7.Rxe5
+/- (0.71) Depth: 10 00:00:02 539kN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5[] 2.Qh5[] gxf6 3.Qxh7+[] Kf8[] 4.Re1[] Ra6 5.c3 Ne6 6.Bxe5 fxe5 7.Rxe5 Re8 8.Bh3 Bc8 9.Qh6+ Ke7 10.Nxf7 d4 11.Re4
+/- (0.90) Depth: 11 00:00:04 843kN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5[] 2.Qh5[] gxf6 3.Qxh7+[] Kf8[] 4.Re1[] Ra6 5.c3 Ne6 6.Bxe5 fxe5 7.Rxe5 Re8 8.Bh3 Bc8 9.h5 Qb7 10.h6 Ra7 11.Re1
+/- (0.94) Depth: 12 00:00:06 1297kN
1.Rxe5
+/- (1.14 ++) Depth: 13 00:00:09 1970kN
1.Rxe5 Nxf6 2.Re8+ Nxe8 3.Bxc7 Rxc7 4.Nf3 Ne6 5.Bh3 d4 6.Bxe6 fxe6 7.Ng5 Bd5 8.Qe2 h6
+/- (1.21) Depth: 13 00:00:13 2618kN
1.Rxe5 Nxf6 2.Re8+ Nxe8 3.Bxc7 Rxc7 4.Nf3 Ne6 5.Qd2 h6 6.Re1 Nf6
+/- (1.11) Depth: 14 00:00:15 3083kN
1.Rxe5 Nxf6 2.Re8+ Nxe8 3.Bxc7[] Rxc7 4.Nf3 Ne6 5.Qd2 h6 6.Re1 Nf6 7.Bh3 Bc8 8.c3 Re7
+/- (1.22) Depth: 15 00:00:21 4226kN
1.Rxe5 Nxf6 2.Re8+ Nxe8 3.Bxc7[] Rxc7 4.Nf3 Ne6 5.d4 Nd6 6.dxc5 Rxc5 7.Bh3 Re8 8.Qd3 g6 9.Re1 f5 10.Ng5 Ne4
+/- (1.24) Depth: 16 00:01:11 15705kN
)
-
acase
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
- Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
- Full name: Andrew R Case
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
Hello John,
On a pretty fast system like yours I would say that less than 10 minutes would qualify as a "reasonable" amount of time for an engine to find the key move here (thats why I was a little shocked when you showed 10:07 for DJ 2010, I was expecting your system to get it faster than mine). More than a half-hour would qualify as a "long" time.
Here is DJ 2010 win64 on my Phenom II X4 955 with 2048 MB of hash
(and yes I cleared the hash with a reboot just to make sure )
New game
r1r3k1/1bqn1ppp/5P2/1pppp1N1/p2n1B1P/P2P2P1/1PP2PB1/R2QR1K1 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Deep Junior 2010 win64 UCI:
1.c3 exf4 2.cxd4 gxf6 3.Nf3 fxg3
-+ (-2.07) Depth: 6 00:00:00 9kN
1.Be3 h6 2.fxg7 hxg5 3.c3 Nf5
-/+ (-0.93) Depth: 6 00:00:00 13kN
1.Be3 Nxf6 2.Bh3 Re8 3.b4 h6 4.Bxd4 exd4
-/+ (-1.06) Depth: 9 00:00:00 80kN
1.Bd2 Nxf6 2.Nf3 Nxf3+ 3.Qxf3 Re8 4.Bg5 Qd6 5.c3
-/+ (-0.97) Depth: 9 00:00:00 96kN
1.Bd2 Nxf6 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Be3 Qd6 4.c4 b4 5.axb4 Nxb4 6.Ng5
-/+ (-1.02) Depth: 12 00:00:00 1147kN
1.fxg7
=/+ (-0.54) Depth: 12 00:00:00 4091kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kxg7 4.Bh6+ Kh8 5.Bd2+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kf8 7.c3 Nb3 8.Bh6+ Ke7 9.Qg7+
= (-0.22) Depth: 12 00:00:00 5743kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kxg7 4.Bh6+ Kh8 5.Bg5+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kh8
= (0.00) Depth: 15 00:00:03 34478kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kg8 4.Bh3 Re8 5.c3 Ne6 6.Bxe6+ Rxe6 7.Qh8+ Kf7 8.Qh7 Rg8 9.Bh6 Ra8
+/= (0.38) Depth: 17 00:00:38 411mN
1.c3
+/= (0.43) Depth: 17 00:00:49 484mN
1.c3 Nb3 2.Rxe5 Nxf6 3.Re8+ Nxe8 4.Bxc7 Rxc7 5.Rb1 Nf6 6.Nf3 h6 7.Qe2 Re8 8.Ne5 Rce7
+/- (0.80) Depth: 18 00:01:14 750mN
1.c3 Nb3 2.Rxe5 Nxf6 3.Re8+ Nxe8 4.Bxc7 Rxc7 5.Rb1 Nf6 6.Nf3 Re7 7.Nd2 Nxd2 8.Qxd2 Rae8 9.Bf3 d4 10.Bxb7
+/- (0.80) Depth: 19 00:01:44 1050mN
1.c3 Nf5 2.Bxe5 Nxe5 3.Bh3 gxf6 4.Bxf5 fxg5 5.Qh5 f6 6.d4 cxd4 7.cxd4 Nc4 8.hxg5 fxg5 9.Bxc8 Rxc8 10.Qxg5+
= (0.03) Depth: 20 00:03:50 2284mN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7+ Kf8 4.Re1 Ra6 5.h5 b4 6.h6 Re6 7.Qg7+ Ke7 8.Bxe5 fxe5 9.Bh3 bxa3 10.Bxe6
+/- (0.80) Depth: 20 00:05:45 2871mN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7+ Kf8 4.Re1 Ra6 5.h5 Re6 6.h6 Ke7 7.Bxe5 fxg5
+/= (0.67) Depth: 21 00:11:55 6547mN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7+ Kf8 4.Re1 Ra6 5.Qh8+ Ke7 6.Qg7 Re6 7.Bxe5 fxg5 8.c3 Nc6 9.Qxg5+ Kd7 10.Bxc7
+/= (0.37) Depth: 22 00:14:33 7981mN
On a pretty fast system like yours I would say that less than 10 minutes would qualify as a "reasonable" amount of time for an engine to find the key move here (thats why I was a little shocked when you showed 10:07 for DJ 2010, I was expecting your system to get it faster than mine). More than a half-hour would qualify as a "long" time.
Here is DJ 2010 win64 on my Phenom II X4 955 with 2048 MB of hash
(and yes I cleared the hash with a reboot just to make sure
)New game
r1r3k1/1bqn1ppp/5P2/1pppp1N1/p2n1B1P/P2P2P1/1PP2PB1/R2QR1K1 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Deep Junior 2010 win64 UCI:
1.c3 exf4 2.cxd4 gxf6 3.Nf3 fxg3
-+ (-2.07) Depth: 6 00:00:00 9kN
1.Be3 h6 2.fxg7 hxg5 3.c3 Nf5
-/+ (-0.93) Depth: 6 00:00:00 13kN
1.Be3 Nxf6 2.Bh3 Re8 3.b4 h6 4.Bxd4 exd4
-/+ (-1.06) Depth: 9 00:00:00 80kN
1.Bd2 Nxf6 2.Nf3 Nxf3+ 3.Qxf3 Re8 4.Bg5 Qd6 5.c3
-/+ (-0.97) Depth: 9 00:00:00 96kN
1.Bd2 Nxf6 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Be3 Qd6 4.c4 b4 5.axb4 Nxb4 6.Ng5
-/+ (-1.02) Depth: 12 00:00:00 1147kN
1.fxg7
=/+ (-0.54) Depth: 12 00:00:00 4091kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kxg7 4.Bh6+ Kh8 5.Bd2+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kf8 7.c3 Nb3 8.Bh6+ Ke7 9.Qg7+
= (-0.22) Depth: 12 00:00:00 5743kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kxg7 4.Bh6+ Kh8 5.Bg5+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kh8
= (0.00) Depth: 15 00:00:03 34478kN
1.fxg7 f6 2.Nxh7 Kxh7 3.Qh5+ Kg8 4.Bh3 Re8 5.c3 Ne6 6.Bxe6+ Rxe6 7.Qh8+ Kf7 8.Qh7 Rg8 9.Bh6 Ra8
+/= (0.38) Depth: 17 00:00:38 411mN
1.c3
+/= (0.43) Depth: 17 00:00:49 484mN
1.c3 Nb3 2.Rxe5 Nxf6 3.Re8+ Nxe8 4.Bxc7 Rxc7 5.Rb1 Nf6 6.Nf3 h6 7.Qe2 Re8 8.Ne5 Rce7
+/- (0.80) Depth: 18 00:01:14 750mN
1.c3 Nb3 2.Rxe5 Nxf6 3.Re8+ Nxe8 4.Bxc7 Rxc7 5.Rb1 Nf6 6.Nf3 Re7 7.Nd2 Nxd2 8.Qxd2 Rae8 9.Bf3 d4 10.Bxb7
+/- (0.80) Depth: 19 00:01:44 1050mN
1.c3 Nf5 2.Bxe5 Nxe5 3.Bh3 gxf6 4.Bxf5 fxg5 5.Qh5 f6 6.d4 cxd4 7.cxd4 Nc4 8.hxg5 fxg5 9.Bxc8 Rxc8 10.Qxg5+
= (0.03) Depth: 20 00:03:50 2284mN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7+ Kf8 4.Re1 Ra6 5.h5 b4 6.h6 Re6 7.Qg7+ Ke7 8.Bxe5 fxe5 9.Bh3 bxa3 10.Bxe6
+/- (0.80) Depth: 20 00:05:45 2871mN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7+ Kf8 4.Re1 Ra6 5.h5 Re6 6.h6 Ke7 7.Bxe5 fxg5
+/= (0.67) Depth: 21 00:11:55 6547mN
1.Rxe5 Nxe5 2.Qh5 gxf6 3.Qxh7+ Kf8 4.Re1 Ra6 5.Qh8+ Ke7 6.Qg7 Re6 7.Bxe5 fxg5 8.c3 Nc6 9.Qxg5+ Kd7 10.Bxc7
+/= (0.37) Depth: 22 00:14:33 7981mN
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acase
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
- Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
- Full name: Andrew R Case
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
yes, i am constantly amazed when such positions pop-up in OTB games. thanks andrew for bringing it to our attention.
Actually John, I should mention that this was a Correspondence game.
Those Eagle-eyed Correspondence players come up with some of the sharpest tactics I have ever seen.
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yanquis1972
- Posts: 1766
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
hmm - maybe i was unlucky, or maybe the 2GB hash plays a role. i agree w/ the 10 minute cap on 'reasonable', ie what could reasonably be expected in OTB play. i figured if it took an octal 10 mins, quads or less would be doomed by that criteria. i'm re-running it on my quad w/ 2 gigs hash to see if it pops up sooner. (it does, d20 instead of 22, so my initial result my have been atypical or perhaps hash is more important than i realize)
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jdart
- Posts: 4404
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 am
- Location: http://www.arasanchess.org
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
You really have to run these tests through a good engine in multi-PV mode to get an idea of whether the "solution" move is uniquely best, or just a bit better than alternatives. A lot of test positions are busted, or at least should allow variant solutions if the best scoring move is not clear above others.yanquis1972 wrote:i guess if rybka agrees, its possible fg is simply not good, but is it possible its also winning? .
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Eelco de Groot
- Posts: 4663
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
- Full name: Eelco de Groot
Re: Test Position 1.Rxe5!
I tested the game position, it sometimes makes a difference from just testing the fen. If it is a recent correspondence game the move is likely tested by computers but that does not always mean there are no other good moves. Rainbow Serpent does not really like fxg7 though, at least it does not spend a lot of time on it. But like Jon Dart says indeed it is better to run some multi-PV analysis, if you really want to see whether the solution is a real 'best move' or in this case fg7 would be another solution to the problem.
[d]r1r3k1/1bqn1ppp/5P2/1pppp1N1/p2n1B1P/P2P2P1/1PP2PB1/R2QR1K1 w - -
Engine: Rainbow Serpent 1.6.3s(dc) Build 165 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
by Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba, Joona Kiiski Modifications: Dann Corbit
1.00 0:00 -0.52 19.fxg7 (730) 1
2.00 0:00 +0.80 19.fxg7 f6 20.Qh5 fxg5 21.Bxg5 Nxc2 (2.447) 4
3.00 0:00 +0.80 19.fxg7 f6 20.Qh5 fxg5 21.Bxg5 Nxc2 (7.244) 12
4.00 0:00 +1.73 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 exf4 21.Qh5 fxg3
22.Re7 (40.057) 59
5.00 0:00 +2.14 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kxg7
22.Bh6+ Kh7 23.Bf8+ Kg8 (138.636) 147
6.01 0:01 +1.17 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kxg7
22.Bh6+ Kh8 23.Bh3 Re8 24.Be3+ Kg8
25.Bxd4 cxd4 26.Qg4+ Kh8 27.Qxd7 (428.711) 277
6.13 0:06 +2.58 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 Ndf3+ 21.Bxf3 Nxf3+
22.Nxf3 Qd7 23.Ng5 h6 24.fxg7 f6 (2.695.399) 424
7.01 0:06 +2.02 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Re1 Re8 23.Kf1 Nxc2 24.Qh8+ Ke7 (2.970.448) 431
8.01 0:09 +2.10 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.Rxe5 Re6
25.Qh8+ Ke7 26.Nxe6 Rxh8 27.Nxc7+ Kd6
28.Re8 Rxe8 29.Nxe8+ Ke5 30.f4+ (4.051.877) 441
9.01 0:11 +1.37-- 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.Rxe5 Re6
25.Qh8+ Ke7 26.Nxe6 fxe6 27.Qg7+ Ke8
28.Qf6 Qe7 (5.172.005) 436
9.02 0:13 +1.57 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kxg7
22.Bh6+ Kh8 23.Bh3 f5 24.Be3+ Kg8
25.Qg6+ Kh8 26.Qh6+ Kg8 27.Bxd4 (5.990.334) 437
10.01 0:16 +2.70++ 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kxg7
22.Bh6+ Kh8 23.Bh3 f5 24.Be3+ Kg8
25.Qg6+ Kh8 26.Qh6+ Kg8 27.Bxd4 (7.191.901) 439
11.01 0:35 +1.33 19.fxg7 exf4 20.Re7 Qd6 21.Qh5 Qg6
22.Qxg6 fxg6 23.c3 Nb3 24.Bh3 Rc6
25.Rae1 fxg3 26.fxg3 Bc8 27.Bxd7 Bxd7
28.Rxd7 (16.227.138) 455
11.03 0:41 +1.61 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.c3 f6
25.Qh8+ Ke7 26.Qg7+ Ke8 27.Qg6+ Kd8
28.Nf7+ Ke7 29.Nh6 Nc2 (19.011.377) 459
12.01 1:13 +1.25 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.Bh3 Rg6
25.Bxc8 Bxc8 26.Qh8+ Rg8 27.Nh7+ Ke7
28.Qxg8 Nf3+ 29.Kf1 Bh3+ 30.Ke2 Nxe1
31.Qf8+ Ke6 32.Ng5+ (34.909.076) 472
13.01 4:56 +1.69 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.Bh3 Rg6
25.Bxc8 Bxc8 26.Qh8+ Rg8 27.Nh7+ Ke7
28.Qxg8 Nf3+ 29.Kf1 Bh3+ 30.Ke2 Nxe1
31.Kxe1 Kd6 32.Nf6 (135.890.969) 458
14.01 16:32 +1.61 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Re1 Re8 23.Qh8+ Ke7 24.Qg7 Kd7
25.Bh3+ Kc6 26.Qxf6+ Qd6 27.Qxd6+ Kxd6
28.Nxf7+ Ke7 29.Nxe5 Nxc2 30.Rc1 Nd4
31.Rxc5 Ne2+ 32.Kf1 (460.094.484) 463
15.01 24:30 +2.06 19.Rxe5 Nxf6 20.Re8+ Nxe8 21.Bxc7 Rxc7
22.Nf3 Nxf3+ 23.Bxf3 Nf6 24.Qd2 d4
25.Bxb7 Rxb7 26.Qg5 Rc8 27.Qf5 Rc6
28.Re1 Ra7 29.Kg2 g6 30.Qf4 Kg7
31.Re5 Kg8 (686.530.143) 467
16.01 30:42 +2.10 19.Rxe5 Nxf6 20.Re8+ Nxe8 21.Bxc7 Rxc7
22.Nf3 Nxf3+ 23.Bxf3 Nf6 24.Qd2 d4
25.Bxb7 Rxb7 26.Qg5 Rc8 27.Qf5 Rbc7
28.Re1 b4 29.Kg2 Rb8 30.Qf4 Rcc8
31.axb4 Rxb4 32.Qf5 (869.466.168) 471
best move: Re1xe5 time: 53:45.546 min n/s: 469.645 nodes: 1.514.850.262
[d]r1r3k1/1bqn1ppp/5P2/1pppp1N1/p2n1B1P/P2P2P1/1PP2PB1/R2QR1K1 w - -
Engine: Rainbow Serpent 1.6.3s(dc) Build 165 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
by Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba, Joona Kiiski Modifications: Dann Corbit
1.00 0:00 -0.52 19.fxg7 (730) 1
2.00 0:00 +0.80 19.fxg7 f6 20.Qh5 fxg5 21.Bxg5 Nxc2 (2.447) 4
3.00 0:00 +0.80 19.fxg7 f6 20.Qh5 fxg5 21.Bxg5 Nxc2 (7.244) 12
4.00 0:00 +1.73 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 exf4 21.Qh5 fxg3
22.Re7 (40.057) 59
5.00 0:00 +2.14 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kxg7
22.Bh6+ Kh7 23.Bf8+ Kg8 (138.636) 147
6.01 0:01 +1.17 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kxg7
22.Bh6+ Kh8 23.Bh3 Re8 24.Be3+ Kg8
25.Bxd4 cxd4 26.Qg4+ Kh8 27.Qxd7 (428.711) 277
6.13 0:06 +2.58 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 Ndf3+ 21.Bxf3 Nxf3+
22.Nxf3 Qd7 23.Ng5 h6 24.fxg7 f6 (2.695.399) 424
7.01 0:06 +2.02 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Re1 Re8 23.Kf1 Nxc2 24.Qh8+ Ke7 (2.970.448) 431
8.01 0:09 +2.10 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.Rxe5 Re6
25.Qh8+ Ke7 26.Nxe6 Rxh8 27.Nxc7+ Kd6
28.Re8 Rxe8 29.Nxe8+ Ke5 30.f4+ (4.051.877) 441
9.01 0:11 +1.37-- 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.Rxe5 Re6
25.Qh8+ Ke7 26.Nxe6 fxe6 27.Qg7+ Ke8
28.Qf6 Qe7 (5.172.005) 436
9.02 0:13 +1.57 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kxg7
22.Bh6+ Kh8 23.Bh3 f5 24.Be3+ Kg8
25.Qg6+ Kh8 26.Qh6+ Kg8 27.Bxd4 (5.990.334) 437
10.01 0:16 +2.70++ 19.fxg7 f6 20.Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kxg7
22.Bh6+ Kh8 23.Bh3 f5 24.Be3+ Kg8
25.Qg6+ Kh8 26.Qh6+ Kg8 27.Bxd4 (7.191.901) 439
11.01 0:35 +1.33 19.fxg7 exf4 20.Re7 Qd6 21.Qh5 Qg6
22.Qxg6 fxg6 23.c3 Nb3 24.Bh3 Rc6
25.Rae1 fxg3 26.fxg3 Bc8 27.Bxd7 Bxd7
28.Rxd7 (16.227.138) 455
11.03 0:41 +1.61 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.c3 f6
25.Qh8+ Ke7 26.Qg7+ Ke8 27.Qg6+ Kd8
28.Nf7+ Ke7 29.Nh6 Nc2 (19.011.377) 459
12.01 1:13 +1.25 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.Bh3 Rg6
25.Bxc8 Bxc8 26.Qh8+ Rg8 27.Nh7+ Ke7
28.Qxg8 Nf3+ 29.Kf1 Bh3+ 30.Ke2 Nxe1
31.Qf8+ Ke6 32.Ng5+ (34.909.076) 472
13.01 4:56 +1.69 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Bxe5 fxe5 23.Re1 Ra6 24.Bh3 Rg6
25.Bxc8 Bxc8 26.Qh8+ Rg8 27.Nh7+ Ke7
28.Qxg8 Nf3+ 29.Kf1 Bh3+ 30.Ke2 Nxe1
31.Kxe1 Kd6 32.Nf6 (135.890.969) 458
14.01 16:32 +1.61 19.Rxe5 Nxe5 20.Qh5 gxf6 21.Qxh7+ Kf8
22.Re1 Re8 23.Qh8+ Ke7 24.Qg7 Kd7
25.Bh3+ Kc6 26.Qxf6+ Qd6 27.Qxd6+ Kxd6
28.Nxf7+ Ke7 29.Nxe5 Nxc2 30.Rc1 Nd4
31.Rxc5 Ne2+ 32.Kf1 (460.094.484) 463
15.01 24:30 +2.06 19.Rxe5 Nxf6 20.Re8+ Nxe8 21.Bxc7 Rxc7
22.Nf3 Nxf3+ 23.Bxf3 Nf6 24.Qd2 d4
25.Bxb7 Rxb7 26.Qg5 Rc8 27.Qf5 Rc6
28.Re1 Ra7 29.Kg2 g6 30.Qf4 Kg7
31.Re5 Kg8 (686.530.143) 467
16.01 30:42 +2.10 19.Rxe5 Nxf6 20.Re8+ Nxe8 21.Bxc7 Rxc7
22.Nf3 Nxf3+ 23.Bxf3 Nf6 24.Qd2 d4
25.Bxb7 Rxb7 26.Qg5 Rc8 27.Qf5 Rbc7
28.Re1 b4 29.Kg2 Rb8 30.Qf4 Rcc8
31.axb4 Rxb4 32.Qf5 (869.466.168) 471
best move: Re1xe5 time: 53:45.546 min n/s: 469.645 nodes: 1.514.850.262
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan