SWCR-64: Houdini 1.5 x64 started in around 15 hours ...

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Frank Quisinsky
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Full name: Frank Quisinsky

SWCR-64: Houdini 1.5 x64 started in around 15 hours ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi there,

in around 15 hours, 21 minutes, 10 seconds, 8 milliseconds, 59 nanoseconds ... over the Xmas days ... started the new number 1 Houdini 1.5 x64 in SWCR.

Perhaps, 58 nanoseconds, who knowns!

If you like you can follow the results vs. the TOP-25 on my webpage in FTPTrigger live mode.

Countdown is still running.
For the moment Booot 5.1.0 ... the engine with plays great chess with three knights (the reason Booot have 3x "o" in the name) ... have a look in the game I posted in TalkChess main forum, playing the latest 280 games.

Very interesting engine, very interesting results ... speaking from Booot. I am sure Houdini too :-)

Perhaps, 57 nanoseconds ...

Frank's Chess Page, SWCR
http://www.amateurschach.de

Best
Frank

In 56 nano...
55
Engin
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Full name: Engin Üstün

Re: SWCR-64: Houdini 1.5 x64 started in around 15 hours ...

Post by Engin »

i will only follow your testings with Boot and other engines they dont comes from ipo family, i am not interested on those ipo clones on your side, sorry.
Frank Quisinsky
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Re: SWCR-64: Houdini 1.5 x64 started in around 15 hours ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi Engin,

I got daily such mails.

Yesterday I got the following:
Frank, I am waiting now so long of Spark 0.5. You play with a private version and now Spark 1.0 is available. I lost my interest because I waiting to long (German, translation in Frankish / English).
Sorry Frank, please delete all Spark versions in SWCR.

:-)

An other a day before:
Frank, around 20 engine in your list, standing for Hiarcs 13.1 you have to delete all of them.

I am sure a Hiarcs fan :-)

On other ...
Please add Houdini and delete all IvanHoe versions directly!

And so on ...
What users do if the day is a long day!

Engin, I have a rating list. Available engines should play. I do what I can to add many different versions and programs.

Best
Frank
Frank Quisinsky
Posts: 7045
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: SWCR-64: Houdini 1.5 x64 started in around 15 hours ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi Engin,

and the best on my list is ...
Games and Bayesian files are available.

Each one can delete what ever he like and can very easy calculate his own list. That's the particularity on my list. Each one can used my database for add this information on an own webpage.

Example:
User x have a webpage and don't like Spark. He can public my list without Spark versions on his own webpage.

User y have a webpage and don't like IPP family. He can public my list without ipp family engine on his own webpage.

User z have interest to public my list in a chess fora without IPP family engines. No problem, he can calucalate the list without ipp family and can add the information on a chess forum.

No problem with such things!
Feel free to used the SWCR database for your own webapge without ipp family engines, or what you like or dislike. You will find out all what's available last year and a TOP-30 engine in my list. So you can delete number 2, 6, 7,8, 15, 18, 19 ... all what you dislike and public a new one.

:-)

Best
Frank
Sedat Canbaz
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Antalya/Turkey

Re: SWCR-64: Houdini 1.5 x64 started in around 15 hours ...

Post by Sedat Canbaz »

Engin wrote:i will only follow your testings with Boot and other engines they dont comes from ipo family, i am not interested on those ipo clones on your side, sorry.
Dear Engin,

Take it easy my chess friend...we are just neutral testers

Of course i am also against non-original work,i mean for suspicious clone engines which are made without any big work/efforts/...
In other words just copied and without any big improvements,for example with playing strength maximum 20-30 elo

Note also that mostly of us know very well that with a few modifications with the engine settings,they can perform approx.20-30 elo better (e.g Chessmaster settings,Rybka EXP settings)

I am not an Engine Author,but in my estimation,many Chess Programmers have studied/learned from each other (especially latest years from Fruit opened source)

From my experience i can say,even Opening Book Authors (including me) have studied/learned/imported games from each other work
Plus i strongly believe that there is any Book Author that all (totally) his opening book move lines are own or to belongs only to him

And it does not mean too that WE (all Book Authors) create clones books or our work is not original

But of course (as i mentioned before),to be a TOP Book Author is needed a daily updated hand-made book,with working/improving own special super strong lines,which have been never played before...

And after many efforts and work we can not say that 'our work is not original'

For example,just only with importing games or coping moves,(a such opening books) have small chances to be ranked at one of the TOP rankings

Actually i think that there are a lot of chess engines/opening books,which are relatives to each other,like Humans - Adam and Eva :)

Best Regards,
Sedat
Sedat Canbaz
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Antalya/Turkey

Re: SWCR-64: Houdini 1.5 x64 started in around 15 hours ...

Post by Sedat Canbaz »

Correction:
Plus i strongly believe that there is NO any Book Author that all (totally) his opening book move lines are own or to belongs only to him
Frank Quisinsky
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: SWCR-64: Houdini 1.5 x64 started for 30 minutes ***

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi there,

round robin for Houdini 1.5 x64 started for around 30 minutes. Over xMas now 1.000 40-minutes games with ponder = on in SWCR.

Have fun with SWCR!

Best
Frank
Frank Quisinsky
Posts: 7045
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: Houdini 1.5 x64 after the first 256 of 1.000 games ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi there,

after the first 256 of 1.000 games from the still running test:
See LIVE-Table on my webpage:

Code: Select all

1 Houdini 1.5 x64           : 2996  256 (+179,= 59,- 18), 81.4 %

Shredder 12                   :  11 (+  7,=  3,-  1), 77.3 %
Hiarcs 13.1                   :  10 (+  9,=  1,-  0), 95.0 %
Jonny 4.00                    :  10 (+  9,=  1,-  0), 95.0 %
Zappa Mexico II x64           :  10 (+  7,=  3,-  0), 85.0 %
Naum 4.2 x64                  :  11 (+  5,=  3,-  3), 59.1 %
Loop 2007 x64                 :  10 (+  9,=  1,-  0), 95.0 %
SmarThink 1.20 x64            :  10 (+  9,=  1,-  0), 95.0 %
Thinker 5.4d Inert x64        :  10 (+  9,=  1,-  0), 95.0 %
Komodo 1.2 JA x64             :  11 (+  8,=  1,-  2), 77.3 %
Fruit 09_07_05 x64            :  10 (+ 10,=  0,-  0), 100.0 %
Onno 1.2.70 x64               :  10 (+  8,=  2,-  0), 90.0 %
Hannibal 1.0a x64             :  10 (+  7,=  3,-  0), 85.0 %
Protector 1.3.6-370 JA x64    :  10 (+  8,=  1,-  1), 85.0 %
Junior 12.0 x64               :  10 (+  9,=  0,-  1), 90.0 %
Equinox 0.87t x64             :  10 (+  8,=  2,-  0), 90.0 %
Stockfish 1.9.1 JA x64        :  11 (+  5,=  5,-  1), 68.2 %
Sjeng c't 2010                :  10 (+  5,=  5,-  0), 75.0 %
Crafty 23.4 JA x64            :  10 (+ 10,=  0,-  0), 100.0 %
Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42           :  10 (+  2,=  6,-  2), 50.0 %
Umko 1.1 x64                  :  10 (+  8,=  2,-  0), 90.0 %
Critter 0.90 x64              :  10 (+  4,=  4,-  2), 60.0 %
GullChess 1.1 x64             :  11 (+  7,=  4,-  0), 81.8 %
IvanHoe B49jA x64             :  11 (+  2,=  4,-  5), 36.4 %
Spark 1.0 x64                 :  10 (+  7,=  3,-  0), 85.0 %
Booot 5.1.0                   :  10 (+  7,=  3,-  0), 85.0 %

Code: Select all

74.434 SWCR games
Last update: December 24th, 2010 (08:45)

At the moment *18* updates will be added!

117. x64 Houdini 1.5               Update   Started: 23.12.2010  ** still running
116. x32 Booot 5.1.0               NEW      Started: 15.12.2010  * ended
115. x64 Spark 1.0                 Update   Started: 15.12.2010  * ended
114. x64 IvanHoe B49jA             Update   Started: 10.12.2010  * ended
113. x64 GullChess 1.1             Update   Started: 06.12.2010  * ended
112. x64 Critter 0.90              Update   Started: 03.12.2010  * ended
111. x64 Umko 1.1 x64              Update   Started: 29.11.2010  * ended
110. x64 Rybka 4 Exp. 42           Update   Started: 11.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
109. w32 Zarkov 6.44               NEW      Started: 11.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
108. x64 Tornado 4.25              Update   Started: 11.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
107. x64 Crafty 23.4 JA            Update   Started: 10.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
106. w32 Sjeng c't 2010            Update   Started: 10.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
105. x64 Stockfish 1.9.1 JA        Update   Started: 08.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
104. x64 Equinox 0.87t             Update   Started: 07.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
103. x64 Junior 12.0 31.10.10      Update   Started: 07.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
102. x64 Gaviota 0.80              NEW      Started: 07.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
101. x64 Protector 1.3.6 Rev. 370  Update   Started: 07.11.2010  break up to December 27th, 2010
100. w32 Jonny 4.00                Again    Started: 07.22.3020  break up to December 27th, 2010


Rank Name                          Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Houdini 1.5 x64              2996   44   41   256   81%  2744   23% NEW +  48
   2 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42          2963   23   23   870   80%  2720   25% NEW +  24 
   - Houdini 1.03a x64            2948   22   21   920   79%  2718   29% 
   - Rybka 4 x64                  2939   17   17  1520   80%  2699   29% 
   3 IvanHoe B49jA x64            2933   20   19  1091   78%  2723   32% NEW +  11
   - IvanHoe B52aC x64            2922   21   21   880   77%  2727   34% 
   4 Stockfish 1.8.0 JA x64       2906   18   18  1200   75%  2714   33% 
   - Rybka 3 x64                  2904   23   22   840   78%  2687   28% 
   - Stockfish 1.9.1 JA x64       2904   21   21   870   74%  2722   34% NEW -   2
   - Fire 1.31 x64                2901   21   20   920   75%  2720   36% 
   - Stockfish 1.7.1 JA x64       2896   19   19  1120   76%  2706   34% 
   - Stockfish 1.9.1 JA           2893   21   20   960   78%  2689   31% 
   - Rybka 4                      2891   18   18  1200   76%  2695   32% 
   - Stockfish 1.7.1 JA           2873   18   18  1200   75%  2688   31% 
   5 Critter 0.90 x64             2871   18   18  1130   70%  2727   37% NEW +  35
   - Stockfish 1.8.0 JA           2862   20   20   920   74%  2695   37% 
   - Rybka 3                      2859   16   16  1520   74%  2688   31% 
   - Critter 0.80 x64             2836   16   16  1525   67%  2705   33% 
   6 Naum 4.2 x64                 2832   13   13  2296   66%  2711   36% 
   - Stockfish 1.6.3 JA           2825   18   18  1080   71%  2679   36% 
   - Naum 4.2                     2822   15   15  1680   68%  2695   35% 
   - Critter 0.80                 2814   18   18  1040   67%  2694   37% 
   - Naum 4.1                     2810   20   19   920   68%  2684   35% 
   - Critter 0.70 x64             2806   20   20   880   65%  2701   38% 
   7 Komodo 1.2 JA x64            2803   13   13  2055   63%  2708   39% 
   - Stockfish 1.6.0 JA           2801   19   19   960   68%  2686   39% 
   8 Shredder 12                  2800    9    9  4496   63%  2703   36% 
   9 Sjeng c't 2010               2793   20   20   870   59%  2725   39% NEW + 107
   - Komodo 1.0 JA x64            2790   20   20   840   64%  2692   40% 
  10 GullChess 1.1 x64            2787   18   17  1091   58%  2728   37% NEW +  17
   - Shredder 12 x64              2787   15   15  1600   63%  2690   34% 
   - Naum 4.0                     2783   19   19   960   65%  2681   38% 
  11 Deep Fritz 12                2779   14   14  1760   62%  2698   41% 
   - Critter 0.70                 2776   19   19   920   61%  2701   39% 
   - GullChess 1.0a x64           2770   16   16  1326   57%  2717   38% 
   - Komodo 1.2 JA                2758   17   16  1200   58%  2700   41% 
  12 Spark 1.0 x64                2756   18   18  1050   54%  2729   42% NEW +  17
   - GullChess 1.0a               2746   18   18   960   58%  2695   39% 
   - Fritz 12                     2744   17   16  1160   59%  2687   44% 
   - Spark 0.5 x64                2739   13   13  1964   54%  2707   37% 
  13 Thinker 5.4d Inert x64       2738   12   12  2296   53%  2712   39% 
  14 Hiarcs 13.1                  2735   11   11  2696   53%  2716   38% 
   - Stockfish 1.5.1 JA           2730   19   19   840   59%  2670   43% 
  15 Zappa Mexico II x64          2724   12   12  2294   51%  2713   40% 
   - Spark 0.4 x64                2717   20   20   840   53%  2696   40% 
  16 Junior 12.0 x64              2715   20   20   871   48%  2727   34% NEW +  34
   - Komodo 1.0 JA                2715   16   16  1200   53%  2693   40% 
  17 Protector 1.3.4 JA x64       2711   14   14  1720   50%  2710   37% 
   - Thinker 5.4d Inert           2710   12   12  2240   52%  2698   42% 
   - Spark 0.5                    2707   16   17  1200   51%  2702   41% 
  18 Fruit 09_07_05 x64           2707   13   12  2296   49%  2713   34% 
   - Critter 0.60 x64             2700   20   20   840   50%  2696   38% 
   - Protector 1.3.6-370 JA x64   2699   20   20   871   46%  2728   34% NEW -  12
  19 Booot 5.1.0                  2696   18   18  1010   44%  2738   38% NEW
   - Doch 1.3.4 JA                2689   19   19   840   51%  2685   44% 
   - Critter 0.60                 2687   19   19   920   50%  2687   39% 
   - Sjeng WC-2008 x64            2686   14   14  1760   47%  2710   36% 
   - Junior 11.2                  2685   17   17  1200   48%  2702   33% 
   - Spark 0.4                    2685   19   19   880   49%  2691   42% 
   - Protector 1.3.5 x64          2684   20   20   840   47%  2706   39% 
  20 Hannibal 1.0a x64            2682   14   14  1736   44%  2722   35% 
   - Junior 11.2 x64              2681   16   16  1520   47%  2706   30% 
  21 Onno 1.2.70 x64              2680   13   13  2055   46%  2711   37% 
   - Protector 1.3.4 JA           2678   14   14  1600   47%  2700   39% 
   - Cyclone xTreme Wrath         2674   17   17  1080   47%  2696   41% 
   - Protector 1.3.2              2673   16   16  1160   47%  2694   41% 
   - Onno 1.1.1 x64               2670   20   20   840   46%  2698   40% 
   - Protector 1.3.5 JA           2668   19   20   840   44%  2711   42% 
   - Junior 2010                  2668   16   16  1240   47%  2689   36% 
   - Hiarcs 12.1                  2666   19   19   880   47%  2688   41% 
   - Protector 1.3.1b             2666   19   19   840   47%  2689   42% 
   - Sjeng WC-2008                2664   12   12  2240   45%  2699   37% 
   - Doch 1.2 JA                  2664   19   19   840   48%  2677   40% 
   - Hiarcs 12.1 Sharpen PV       2663   16   16  1280   45%  2698   39% 
   - Zappa Mexico II              2660   12   12  2240   44%  2699   42% 
   - Spark 0.3a                   2654   17   17  1120   44%  2697   41% 
   - Doch 09.980 JA               2651   19   19   840   46%  2674   42% 
   - Junior 11.1a x64             2647   20   20   840   43%  2699   32% 
   - Junior 11.1a                 2644   19   19   960   44%  2690   36% 
   - Spark 0.3                    2642   19   19   880   43%  2689   42% 
   - Hannibal 1.0a                2636   18   18  1080   40%  2704   36% 
   - Bright 0.5c                  2634   19   19   960   41%  2700   35% 
   - Onno 1.2.70                  2634   16   17  1200   40%  2704   40% 
  22 Umko 1.1 x64                 2634   17   18  1170   35%  2739   35% NEW +  24
   - Onno 1.1.1                   2629   15   15  1520   40%  2694   41% 
  23 Loop M1-T x64                2628   19   19   960   36%  2734   36% 
  24 Crafty 23.4 JA x64           2626   20   20   874   35%  2730   33% NEW +  28
   - Loop 2007 x64                2623   13   13  2096   38%  2714   35% 
  25 Jonny 4.00                   2617   14   14  1834   36%  2715   31% NEW
   - Fruit 05/11/03               2615   12   12  2240   38%  2700   41% 
   - Loop 13.6                    2613   15   15  1520   38%  2694   39% 
  26 Equinox 0.87t x64            2612   20   21   874   34%  2731   33% NEW +  12
   - Critter 0.52b                2612   18   18  1040   38%  2697   37% 
   - Twisted Logic 20100131x x64  2611   18   18  1120   35%  2716   32% 
   - Umko 1.0 x64                 2610   17   17  1200   34%  2724   37% (ponder not possible)
   - Glaurung 2.2 JA              2608   17   18  1080   37%  2699   36% 
   - Loop 2007                    2608   17   17  1200   36%  2705   35% 
  27 Ktulu 9.03                   2607   14   14  1760   37%  2702   31% 
  28 SmarThink 1.20 x64           2600   13   13  2293   35%  2715   33% 
   - Equinox 0.83 x64             2600   18   18  1160   32%  2733   32% 
   - Crafty 23.3 JA x64           2598   17   18  1200   33%  2725   34% 
   - SmarThink 1.20               2594   12   12  2240   35%  2700   37% 
   - Equinox 0.83                 2579   19   19   960   33%  2702   34% 
   - Twisted Logic 20100131x      2573   15   15  1600   32%  2706   30% 
  29 Spike 1.2 Turin              2572   16   16  1480   31%  2706   34% 
   - Cipollino 3.25 x64           2567   20   20   960   28%  2737   30% 
   - Crafty 23.3 JA               2564   19   20   960   31%  2703   32% 
  30 BugChess2 1.7 x64            2559   18   18  1200   27%  2731   30% 
   - Crafty 23.2 JA x64           2554   18   19  1120   28%  2718   30% 
  31 Scorpio 2.6 JA x64           2554   18   18  1200   27%  2726   31% 
  32 Tornado 4.25 x64             2551   23   24   744   28%  2719   25% NEW +  71
  32 Chronos 1.99 x64             2551   18   19  1120   27%  2718   33% (ponder not possible)
   - Crafty 23.3 JA x64 NP        2548   20   21   960   25%  2738   30% (test without ponder)
  34 Daydreamer 1.75 JA x64       2521   19   19  1120   24%  2719   30% 
   - Tornado 3.6.7 x64            2480   23   24   840   19%  2726   24% 
  35 Zarkov 6.44                  2475   27   27   624   20%  2713   25% NEW
  36 Gaviota 0.80 x64             2370   31   33   624   12%  2718   15% NEW
Frank Quisinsky
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Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: Houdini 1.5 x64 impressions ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi there,

different things to the still running Houdini 1.5 x64 test.

1.
Houdini 1.03a x64 crashed in 58 of 920 games the Shredder Classic 4.0 GUI with ponder = on (no problems with ponder = off).

Problem is solved with Houdini 1.5 x64.
No problems after the first 256 games with Houdini 1.5 x64.

2.
Houdini 1.03a x64 plays often to fast in ponder mode (after a ponder hit the moves comes directly). Often the reason that Houdini don't used the full time with 40 moves in 10 minutes.

Problem is to 95% solved.
I saw that in 3-4 games Houdini haven't enough time on the clock, 3-4 moves before the time control ended.

3.
Houdini is Houdini!
No changes in the playing style after my statistics. Very passive in the first moves after the openings. Same statistics Rybka / IvanHoe has.

After 256 games:
5 games won under 50 moves up to mate
0 games lost under 50 moves up to mate

Place 7 so far:

Clear on place 1 is Spark 1.0 by Allard Siemelink. Best engine for opening training, most aggressive.

The following engines have better results in this statistic as Rybka, IvanHoe or Houdini:

Spark, Hiarcs, Stockfish, Hannibal, Thinker and Junior!
I am sure that aggressive pawns are the reason for fast win games.

But a good king safty after the opening book moves compare to Spark.

4a.
Houdini is Houdini again ...
In other statistics too, no changes in the playing style. The 50 ELO comes after my statistics from a better endgame Houdini 1.5 has if I compare with Houdini 1.03a.

4b.
Houdini 1.5 plays a little bit more aggressive with knights / bishops ... same the Exp. settings of Rybka 4 do here.

---

After all what I saw the programmer is working on his endgame and made the engine with knights / bishops more aggessive. Really easy to see that Houdini try that bishops and knights are on better positions. Also the rocks working fine in the middelgame. Directly set on open lines, Houdini try to switched pawns for open lines for the rocks.

Looks a litle bit compare to the good and old chess schoolbooks :-)

Only to passiv with pawns after the book moves, because it seems that direclty after the opening book the engine try more to bring knights / bishops and rocks on better positions. Could be the reason why Spark, Stockfish, Hannibal, Thinker, Hiarcs and Junior plays more short win games.

Enough ...

Clear is, the SWCR have a new number 1.
Now the latest 750 games are to play.

If you like you can follow the results on the live table on my webpages. Sorry for my bad English.

Best
Frank
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Houdini
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Re: Houdini 1.5 x64 impressions ...

Post by Houdini »

Hello Frank,

Some comments about your analysis:

2) As far as I know there is no difference in time management between H1.5 and H1.03a.

3) H1.5 is clearly more tactical than H1.03a, but of course the very solid positional foundation is still present.

4a) As far as I know there is no difference in end game knowledge or end game strength. Your attributing the Elo increase to a "better endgame" is surprising, if H1.5 plays better in endings it is because the search has been improved in a generic way.

4b) The balance between bishops and knights is slightly different in H1.5, but otherwise what you're seeing is just the more tactical play style of H1.5.

You are missing the most important feature about Houdini 1.5: it goes *less* deep than its predecessor, but it picks better moves!

Cheers,
Robert