Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

[lkaufman]

Miro thinks N odds is not about the computer strength. He says it's just a mathematical task for Smerdon to trade all the pieces.

Smerdon sacs the b3 pawn in order to exchange Queens.

But now Smerdon has an awkward technical endgame BNPP vs BPPP to convert. And he's down on time.

But he's collected all the pawns now and will win. Miro and Toth are impressed that he could do that low on time when he's only a 2500 GM.

Smerdon seals the match 4-1.

A 2500 FIDE rated player will Never be defeated by a computer with a Knight odds in the Next 10 Years in Normal or standard chess. What people are confusing here is the high computer rating assigned by different engines testing sites based on computer versus computer matches which really does NOT translate into Computer versus Humans with plenty of time for the human GM to think for theirs moves. If the human correspondent Champion play versus any engine the engine would NOT be able to give the human correspondent champion a Knight for a pawn or two pawns odds. I can only see Komodo in the near future defeating probably a 2400 Fide rated with a knight odds, but it will take the engines several upgrades, of course in fast time control od less than 15 minutes per games the computers are unbeatable. But again lets NOT take those high computer rating that were obtained based on pitting engines versus engines too seriously. Computer in standard time control will not be able to beat Carlsen with two pawns odds in the Next 15 years.

The problem is not with the engine ratings, I think that for example the CCRL 40/15 engine ratings are quite realistic in terms of the FIDE rapid ratings the engines would get vs. top humans, though somewhat higher than they would get at standard. The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid. Also Smerdon is over 2550 Rapid.

[jp]

The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid.

Yes, Miro is convinced of that now. The real puzzle is how GMs could have predicted one-sided victory for the engine before the match. (Miro predicted 5 1/2 - 1/2 in favor of the human. Svidler thought it was inconceivable that the human would score any less than 5-1.) Miro joked that that says something about GMs, i.e. they don't know chess. Smerdon claimed that guys like GM Sadler were predicting 6-0 in favor of the engine. If that's true, what is Sadler not understanding? I suspect that he's lost all rationality when it comes to computers.

[Chessqueen]

The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid.

Yes, Miro is convinced of that now. The real puzzle is how GMs could have predicted one-sided victory for the engine before the match. (Miro predicted 5 1/2 - 1/2 in favor of the human. Svidler thought it was inconceivable that the human would score any less than 5-1.) Miro joked that that says something about GMs, i.e. they don't know chess. Smerdon claimed that guys like GM Sadler were predicting 6-0 in favor of the engine. If that's true, what is Sadler not understanding? I suspect that he's lost all rationality when it comes to computers.

I would like to see Komodo with a Knight tempo, such as for Komodo 1.e4 1... then Black or the GM removes the white knight and White or Komodo makes another White move against any GM FIDE 2400 player soon. I would even donate some money for Larry to give to whoever accept the challenge $150 for a win and $25 for a Draw.

[Chessqueen]

The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid.

Yes, Miro is convinced of that now. The real puzzle is how GMs could have predicted one-sided victory for the engine before the match. (Miro predicted 5 1/2 - 1/2 in favor of the human. Svidler thought it was inconceivable that the human would score any less than 5-1.) Miro joked that that says something about GMs, i.e. they don't know chess. Smerdon claimed that guys like GM Sadler were predicting 6-0 in favor of the engine. If that's true, what is Sadler not understanding? I suspect that he's lost all rationality when it comes to computers.

I would like to see Komodo with a Knight tempo, such as for Komodo 1.e4 1... then Black or the GM removes the white knight and White or Komodo makes another White move against any GM FIDE 2400 player soon. I would even donate some money for Larry to give to whoever accept the challenge $150 for a win and $25 for a Draw. Larry can ask for donations for this match to begin soon.

PS: Larry just tell me where to send my first donation to; and others chess enthusiast can do the same, even a small $15.00 from each one of us will get enough Money.

[lkaufman]

The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid.

Yes, Miro is convinced of that now. The real puzzle is how GMs could have predicted one-sided victory for the engine before the match. (Miro predicted 5 1/2 - 1/2 in favor of the human. Svidler thought it was inconceivable that the human would score any less than 5-1.) Miro joked that that says something about GMs, i.e. they don't know chess. Smerdon claimed that guys like GM Sadler were predicting 6-0 in favor of the engine. If that's true, what is Sadler not understanding? I suspect that he's lost all rationality when it comes to computers.

I would like to see Komodo with a Knight tempo, such as for Komodo 1.e4 1... then Black or the GM removes the white knight and White or Komodo makes another White move against any GM FIDE 2400 player soon. I would even donate some money for Larry to give to whoever accept the challenge $150 for a win and $25 for a Draw. Larry can ask for donations for this match to begin soon.

PS: Larry just tell me where to send my first donation to; and others chess enthusiast can do the same, even a small $15.00 from each one of us will get enough Money.

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
2. You say "GM FIDE 2400" player. Of course there are older GMs rated 2400 and lower (I'm one of them), but normally 2400 is IM level. Perhaps you meant IM?
3. At the moment our most likely candidate for next match is GM Alex Lenderman, born 1989, FIDE 2634, rapid 2642, blitz 2651. He has already played two matches with Komodo, roughly 2 and 4 years ago. Nothing is definite yet but late May is a likely time for it.
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

[jp]

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
...
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

Larry, how much do you think an extra tempo in the opening is generally worth? About 1/3 of a pawn?

[lkaufman]

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
...
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

Larry, how much do you think an extra tempo in the opening is generally worth? About 1/3 of a pawn?

I would say about 0.4 pawn on Komodo's scale.

[Chessqueen]

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
...
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

Larry, how much do you think an extra tempo in the opening is generally worth? About 1/3 of a pawn?

I also like this defense :

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2020.04.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13-64bit"]
[Black "QueenChess"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2400"]
[Time "02:03:54"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "900"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "10"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. e4 {(e2-e4 e7-e5 Bf1-c4 Ng8-f6 Qd1-e2 d7-d6 Ng1-f3 Bf8-e7 O-O O-O c2-c3
Nb8-c6 b2-b4 a7-a6 h2-h3 h7-h6 Bc4-b3 Bc8-e6 Bb3xe6 f7xe6 d2-d3) -3.19/19
7} g6 2. d4 {(d2-d4 Bf8-g7 c2-c3 d7-d5 e4-e5 Nb8-c6 Ng1-f3 Ng8-h6 Bf1-d3
Bc8-f5 O-O Bf5xd3 Qd1xd3 O-O Rf1-e1 f7-f6 h2-h3 Nh6-f7 e5xf6 e7xf6)
-2.88/17 3} Bg7 3. Nf3 {(Ng1-f3 c7-c5 d4xc5 Qd8-a5+ c2-c3 Qa5xc5 Bc1-e3
Qc5-c7 h2-h3 d7-d6 Bf1-d3 Ng8-f6 O-O O-O Qd1-d2 Bc8-e6 Nf3-d4 Be6-c4 f2-f3
Bc4xd3 Qd2xd3 Nb8-c6 Nd4xc6 Qc7xc6 Ra1-d1 Nf6-d7) -2.86/20 29} c5 4. dxc5
{(d4xc5 Qd8-a5+) -2.99/18 2} Qa5+ 5. c3 {(c2-c3 Qa5xc5) -2.95/19 12} Qxc5 *[/pgn]

[lkaufman]

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
...
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

Larry, how much do you think an extra tempo in the opening is generally worth? About 1/3 of a pawn?

I also like this defense :

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2020.04.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13-64bit"]
[Black "QueenChess"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2400"]
[Time "02:03:54"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "900"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "10"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. e4 {(e2-e4 e7-e5 Bf1-c4 Ng8-f6 Qd1-e2 d7-d6 Ng1-f3 Bf8-e7 O-O O-O c2-c3
Nb8-c6 b2-b4 a7-a6 h2-h3 h7-h6 Bc4-b3 Bc8-e6 Bb3xe6 f7xe6 d2-d3) -3.19/19
7} g6 2. d4 {(d2-d4 Bf8-g7 c2-c3 d7-d5 e4-e5 Nb8-c6 Ng1-f3 Ng8-h6 Bf1-d3
Bc8-f5 O-O Bf5xd3 Qd1xd3 O-O Rf1-e1 f7-f6 h2-h3 Nh6-f7 e5xf6 e7xf6)
-2.88/17 3} Bg7 3. Nf3 {(Ng1-f3 c7-c5 d4xc5 Qd8-a5+ c2-c3 Qa5xc5 Bc1-e3
Qc5-c7 h2-h3 d7-d6 Bf1-d3 Ng8-f6 O-O O-O Qd1-d2 Bc8-e6 Nf3-d4 Be6-c4 f2-f3
Bc4xd3 Qd2xd3 Nb8-c6 Nd4xc6 Qc7xc6 Ra1-d1 Nf6-d7) -2.86/20 29} c5 4. dxc5
{(d4xc5 Qd8-a5+) -2.99/18 2} Qa5+ 5. c3 {(c2-c3 Qa5xc5) -2.95/19 12} Qxc5 *[/pgn]

Why? I would think that White's chances are better than at the start of the game, and White has other options along the way. The best move after 1.e4 with the b1 knight off is 1...d5!, but we avoided this by 1.d4 when 1...e6 2.e4 transposed to the French, which I think is the second best defense to 1.e4 with b1 off. With an extra tempo and b1 off, after 1.e4 and 2.d4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 White still lacks any great options, as both the Advance and Exchange French seem rather bad for White at knight odds. With g1 off it's a bit more reasonable since White can defend the e4 pawn by Nc3 or Nd2.

[Chessqueen]

The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid.

Yes, Miro is convinced of that now. The real puzzle is how GMs could have predicted one-sided victory for the engine before the match. (Miro predicted 5 1/2 - 1/2 in favor of the human. Svidler thought it was inconceivable that the human would score any less than 5-1.) Miro joked that that says something about GMs, i.e. they don't know chess. Smerdon claimed that guys like GM Sadler were predicting 6-0 in favor of the engine. If that's true, what is Sadler not understanding? I suspect that he's lost all rationality when it comes to computers.

I would like to see Komodo with a Knight tempo, such as for Komodo 1.e4 1... then Black or the GM removes the white knight and White or Komodo makes another White move against any GM FIDE 2400 player soon. I would even donate some money for Larry to give to whoever accept the challenge $150 for a win and $25 for a Draw. Larry can ask for donations for this match to begin soon.

PS: Larry just tell me where to send my first donation to; and others chess enthusiast can do the same, even a small $15.00 from each one of us will get enough Money.

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
2. You say "GM FIDE 2400" player. Of course there are older GMs rated 2400 and lower (I'm one of them), but normally 2400 is IM level. Perhaps you meant IM?
3. At the moment our most likely candidate for next match is GM Alex Lenderman, born 1989, FIDE 2634, rapid 2642, blitz 2651. He has already played two matches with Komodo, roughly 2 and 4 years ago. Nothing is definite yet but late May is a likely time for it.
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

I already have Komodo 11 for Android, do you have any newer version for Android that I can purchase and this way make my donation ?
I saw this version for only $4.99. Is this a true copy or a fake ? https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... 3&hl=en_US