EGBB (endgame bitbases) questions ...

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi there,

I hope Daniel will read my message:

I have different questions!
In the same directory (for 5-man = 150 files) should be the 64bit *.dll (I am using Win10 64bit Prof.) named: egbbdll64.dll

From this *.dll file different versions over the years are available!
The last *.dll is from: (October 18th, 2020, 66.048 bytes) ... from your GitHub!

1. Can I use the last version of 64bit *.dll file for all engines supported your "egbb" endgame bitbases or for your Scorpio 3.0.10 only? Maybe better to use for other engines the older *.dll (181.760 bytes from March 24th, 2014)?

Example: For WB Dirty Cucumber

2. What is the different for all the *.dll files? Yesterday I sorted my backup directory and found 15 versions since 2006. Or better what do you make here for optimations. To know that is better for the own understanding!

After all I understand ...
"egbb" databases are 3-times changed over the years!
Different *.dll files for the 3 different collection of "egbb" databases.
But 16 different *.dll files?

OK, I changed my web site 100 times daily, nobody understand!
But your egbbs are important so I have interest to know that.

3. Have a look here:

Code: Select all

1. Nalimov Tablebases
   by Eugene V. Nalimov (Sibchess) & Andrew Kadatch

   3-4-man         30.320k =   70 files
   3-4-5-man    7.402.684k =  290 files



2. egbb = _e_nd_g_ame  _b_it_b_ases
   by Daniel Shawul (Scorpio)

   3-4-man          3.348k =   70 files
   3-4-5-man      219.785k =  180 files

   egbbdll.dll     =     152,064 bytes from March 24th, 2014 (necessary)
   egbbdll64.dll   =     181.760 bytes from March 24th, 2014 (necessary)



3. Shredderbases
   by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen (Shredder)

   3-4-man         =   1.432.452 bytes (1 file) ... 1.000x faster as Nalimov Tablebases
   3-4-5-man       = 165.089.848 bytes (1 file) ... 1.000x faster as Nalimov Tablebases
   3-4-5-man fast  = 462.516.240 bytes (1 file) ... 10x faster as standard Shredderbases   



4. Gaviota Tablebases
   by Miguel A. Ballicora (Gaviota)

   3-4-man         26.749k =   35 files
   3-4-5-man    6.861.139k =  145 files



5. Syzygz Tablebases
   by Ronald de Man and by Bojun Guo (7-man)

   3-man dtz           17k =    5 files
   4-man dtz        2.994k =   30 files
   5-man dtz      571.063k =  110 files (145 files)

   3-man wdl            8k =    5 files
   4-man wdl        1.224k =   30 files
   5-man wdl      385.588k =  110 files (145 files)

What I understand:
egbb 3-4-man = 70 files!

What I not understand:
egbb 3-4-5-man = 150 files?
I think it should be 290 files?

I am not the Scorpio expert and will use your engine for my next tournaments!
For the moment I am not sure with your "egbb" endgame bitbases and hope you have a bit time for me.

Best and ...
Thanks for your Scorpio! and of course "egbb" databases!

Frank

[Jouni]

Forget bitbases. Syzygy has made them obsolete now.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Jouni,

need it for different engines, like Scorpio, Dirty, others.

For my text tournament (FCP Qualify Tourney-2021):
41 engines

- 16 engines support Syzygy
- 1 engine Gaviota
- 4 engines Nalimov
- 1 engine egbb

If possible engines should use endgame databases!

Best
Frank

Problem all the time: Engines can use different of the endgame databases!
Example: Chiron

But the Chrion programmer added a good explanation on his site and wrote a bit about it. I have to search that.
To many information over the years and different of all this material my brain lost.
I will read chess wiki in the afternoon, maybe I found the answeres to my questions.

[pedrox]

Daniel creates the new dll files and he makes them compatible with previous versions. So you should be able to use the new versions with any engine that uses them. Surely it is advisable to use the latest version of his dll, so you can make sure that it works with any engine and also the new versions can for example load the files in memory faster.

You need the 2 dlls in the directory, egbbdll.dll and egbbdll64.dll (for windows) because although you use 64 bit windows, you could use both 32 and 64 bit engines, for example my danasah engine is 32 bit and in your 64 bit windows I would use your egbbdll.dll. Instead of checking the dates of the files, perhaps it is easier to check a log, the engine usually indicates the version of the egbbdll, for example I see "EgbbProbe 4.1 by Daniel Shawul".

The numbers you indicate from loaded egbbs I think are correct:
3 men --> 70
5 men --> 180
6 men --> 509

Because the number of files is different according to the type used perhaps a more expert explanation is better, but I think it can simply differ since for example Nalimov can use tables with endings for example of 3Q+K vs K and perhaps egbb bitbases considers that it doesn't need such a file to win.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi,

thank you!!

32bit and 64bit ...
In the last download file from Daniel (GitHub) are only the 64bit dll (egbbdll64.dll).
The 32bit *.dll I missed here for 32bit engines.

OK, I have the file in different older versions in my backup directory'.
But I think all this will make my understandings more complicated.

I will check the log file!
You have right, better as to check the date.

But again to the different *.dll files.
The last three versions of egbbdll64.dll are much smaller as the previous versions.

Normally with more compatibilty the files should be bigger (non programmer thinking).
3-times smaller is a lot.

And not sure:
What did you mean with "compatibility" in case from the endgame files?

Example:

The last egbbdll.dll (32bit) I have in my backup directory:
152.064 bytes ... with editor (Total Commander) I can see ...
Time Date Stamp: 532FF03Ah -> 24/03/2014 09:43:38

What is right now?

To add the last egbbdll.dll (32bit) from 24/03/2014 with the last egbbdll64.dll (64bit) from
Time Date Stamp: 5F8C7DF4h -> 18/10/2020 19:40:04 ... in the same directory?
66.048 bytes

Or to put the egbbdll64.dll (64bit) from the same date as the egbbdll.dll (32bit) in the same directory?
Time Date Stamp: 532FEE0Bh -> 24/03/2014 09:34:19
181.760 bytes

So what is the right combination for the 32bit / 64bit *.dll package?

Again: It's really a different:
66.048 bytes for egbdll64.dll from 18/10/2020 or
181.760 bytes for egbdll64.dll from 24/03/2014 (the version I found in my backup directory with the last 32bit egbbdll.dll version from 2014).

A confucius situation for my brain!

Best
Frank

I will test the possible combination with log files tomorrow.
Today enough *.dll

Again, thanks for your answers!!

[Daniel Shawul]

Hi Frank,

Sorry I missed your post.

Yes, I now ship the 5-men egbbdlls with Scorpio on github. They are tiny compared to other NN stuff I offer as download.
Yes, egbbdll64 is updated but it is compatible with older versions as Pedro said.
More importantly, now you can probe with egbbdll neural networks, my own format, Lc0 format, Stockfish NNUE format, my own NNUE format.
To the guy who said syzygy made bitbases obsolete, beat that

32-bit is kind of obsolete, so I now compile only for 64 bit but I still keep the name egbbdll64.dll for compatibilty.

regards,
Daniel

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Daniel,

thank you!
Yesterday in the late evening I try out the last egbbdll64.dll for 64-bit engines and all works fine.
For my next tourney I have to config Scorpio with WB adapter and nn material for Shredder GUI.

Werner gave me some tipps.
Should be work and information about it I will added on my new "engine-configuration" table later.

Thanks for your answere!

And sorry! I saw yesterday after my message in the news the problems in your country.
If I know that before, never I had ask to this moment.

Best for you and your family these days!
Frank


Thanks again to the Danasah
programmer too!