Opponents for handicap match dragon-humans

[Uri Blass]

The event is going to be played in 7.5 with time control 90+30 for the human against 15 minutes of dragon komodo.
There are going to be 2 games in the same day when part of the human opponents are going to play 2 games and part of them one game.
one game will start probably in 14:00 pm israel time control if there is no objection by the players)
The original idea was 13:00 pm israel time.

Second game is planned to be played 17:30 pm israel time but players who play 2 games are going to get at least one half hour between the games.

The following list is not a final list and it is possible that there will be some change but this is what I plan to have:

One player with knight for f7 pawn handicap
IM Ariel Erenberg fide rating 2520
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2811634

Probably 2 games.

players with full knight handicap
FM Ori Kochavi fide ratinf 2365(not sure if one or 2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816873

FM guy Levin fide rating 2354(only second game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2824213

Nadav Zemach fide rating 2238(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820927

WFM Michelle Katkov fide rating 2208(only first game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816393

FM Pavel Chernomordik fide rating fide rating 2178(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2804530

Guy Gov fide rating 2149(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820200

Itay Sitbon(2 games) fide rating 2062
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820706

Alon Cohen(second game) fide rating 2016
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2801809

Oded Ross(second game does not have fide rating except blitz but I believe at the level of fide rating 2000 at long time control)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2811189

Games are going to be played in chess.com

Players are going to get 100 shekels for losing 100+x shekel for a draw and 100+3x shekels for winning when to find x you need to solve the equation that say that average money per game is 250 shekels
No solution to the equation in case all are losing and in this case I am going to give everybody 250 shekels but I do not believe all are going to lose.

One dollar is 3.39 shekels today.

[lkaufman]

The event is going to be played in 7.5 with time control 90+30 for the human against 15 minutes of dragon komodo.
There are going to be 2 games in the same day when part of the human opponents are going to play 2 games and part of them one game.
one game will start probably in 14:00 pm israel time control if there is no objection by the players)
The original idea was 13:00 pm israel time.

Second game is planned to be played 17:30 pm israel time but players who play 2 games are going to get at least one half hour between the games.

The following list is not a final list and it is possible that there will be some change but this is what I plan to have:

One player with knight for f7 pawn handicap
IM Ariel Erenberg fide rating 2520
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2811634

Probably 2 games.

players with full knight handicap
FM Ori Kochavi fide ratinf 2365(not sure if one or 2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816873

FM guy Levin fide rating 2354(only second game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2824213

Nadav Zemach fide rating 2238(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820927

WFM Michelle Katkov fide rating 2208(only first game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816393

FM Pavel Chernomordik fide rating fide rating 2178(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2804530

Guy Gov fide rating 2149(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820200

Itay Sitbon(2 games) fide rating 2062
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820706

Alon Cohen(second game) fide rating 2016
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2801809

Oded Ross(second game does not have fide rating except blitz but I believe at the level of fide rating 2000 at long time control)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2811189

Games are going to be played in chess.com

Players are going to get 100 shekels for losing 100+x shekel for a draw and 100+3x shekels for winning when to find x you need to solve the equation that say that average money per game is 250 shekels
No solution to the equation in case all are losing and in this case I am going to give everybody 250 shekels but I do not believe all are going to lose.

One dollar is 3.39 shekels today.

So it looks like the average FIDE rating (estimated in one case) of the knight odds opponents (excluding the 2520 player taking knight for pawn odds) will be about 2170 to 2180 or so depending on exactly how many games each player plays. Dragon will be playing on my 32 core threadripper, but since it will be playing 8 (or even 9) games at once it is effectively limited to four cores per player, and no Ponder. Also although increment will technically be 30 seconds, I plan to set it internally to just ten seconds, so the games are in effect Classical time limit vs Rapid (15' + 10") time odds plus the simul handicap plus knight odds! In Rapid Dragon has performed in the lower 2400s FIDE giving knight odds in 27 games vs. GMs and IM, but with the humans playing Classical time limit and the simul handicap as well it's hard to say whether Dragon is the favorite or the underdog. The knight for pawn game should also be roughly a tossup with these other handicaps. Nothing like this has ever been tried before, it's very hard to make predictions. We did do some testing to confirm that everything should work properly from a technical perspective, as far as we can tell. Regarding the knight odds, the plan is to alternate between b1 and g1 odds, both overall and for individual players.

[Marcus9]

The event is going to be played in 7.5 with time control 90+30 for the human against 15 minutes of dragon komodo.
There are going to be 2 games in the same day when part of the human opponents are going to play 2 games and part of them one game.
one game will start probably in 14:00 pm israel time control if there is no objection by the players)
The original idea was 13:00 pm israel time.

Second game is planned to be played 17:30 pm israel time but players who play 2 games are going to get at least one half hour between the games.

The following list is not a final list and it is possible that there will be some change but this is what I plan to have:

One player with knight for f7 pawn handicap
IM Ariel Erenberg fide rating 2520
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2811634

Probably 2 games.

players with full knight handicap
FM Ori Kochavi fide ratinf 2365(not sure if one or 2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816873

FM guy Levin fide rating 2354(only second game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2824213

Nadav Zemach fide rating 2238(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820927

WFM Michelle Katkov fide rating 2208(only first game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816393

FM Pavel Chernomordik fide rating fide rating 2178(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2804530

Guy Gov fide rating 2149(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820200

Itay Sitbon(2 games) fide rating 2062
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820706

Alon Cohen(second game) fide rating 2016
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2801809

Oded Ross(second game does not have fide rating except blitz but I believe at the level of fide rating 2000 at long time control)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2811189

Games are going to be played in chess.com

Players are going to get 100 shekels for losing 100+x shekel for a draw and 100+3x shekels for winning when to find x you need to solve the equation that say that average money per game is 250 shekels
No solution to the equation in case all are losing and in this case I am going to give everybody 250 shekels but I do not believe all are going to lose.

One dollar is 3.39 shekels today.

So it looks like the average FIDE rating (estimated in one case) of the knight odds opponents (excluding the 2520 player taking knight for pawn odds) will be about 2170 to 2180 or so depending on exactly how many games each player plays. Dragon will be playing on my 32 core threadripper, but since it will be playing 8 (or even 9) games at once it is effectively limited to four cores per player, and no Ponder. Also although increment will technically be 30 seconds, I plan to set it internally to just ten seconds, so the games are in effect Classical time limit vs Rapid (15' + 10") time odds plus the simul handicap plus knight odds! In Rapid Dragon has performed in the lower 2400s FIDE giving knight odds in 27 games vs. GMs and IM, but with the humans playing Classical time limit and the simul handicap as well it's hard to say whether Dragon is the favorite or the underdog. The knight for pawn game should also be roughly a tossup with these other handicaps. Nothing like this has ever been tried before, it's very hard to make predictions. We did do some testing to confirm that everything should work properly from a technical perspective, as far as we can tell. Regarding the knight odds, the plan is to alternate between b1 and g1 odds, both overall and for individual players.

It will be an exciting match, thank you

[Fritz 0]

To me it's odd that a man rated over 2500 is not a GM, and that a woman rated over 2200 is not a WIM.

[Uri Blass]

To me it's odd that a man rated over 2500 is not a GM, and that a woman rated over 2200 is not a WIM.

Nothing strange.
Getting rating of at least 2500 is only one condition for the title of GM but there is a second condition of getting enough GM norms

Getting rating of at least 2200 is also only one condition for the title of WIM but you need also to get enough norms.

Both players are relatively young(21 and 19 years old based on year of birth) and both of them have norms but not enough and I guess it is also a question of time when they get the title.

I know that Michelle Katkov did even a WGM norm in the first 9 rounds of the last Europe chess championship

https://chess-results.com/tnr607286.asp ... 30&snr=262

I can tell that at some point of her chess history Mishelle has 20 losses in a row for israeli chess rating(these games were not for fide rating and she did not have fide rating at that time) but she did not quit chess(like most players after many losses with no win do) and improved
I do not know if it is more typical for girls not to quit chess in these conditions and it may be interesting if somebody can make some research on this subject.

I know that another female player in israel who started at age 6(27.7.2020) with 21 losses and a single draw(all of them rapid chess of 15+5 that is the minimal time control that is considered for israeli chess rating and faster time control are not for israeli chess rating) has now the highest israel chess rating for females under 8(the player who drew against her lost all the other 9 games that he played and quit chess after his last loss in 4.9.2020).

[Fritz 0]

To me it's odd that a man rated over 2500 is not a GM, and that a woman rated over 2200 is not a WIM.

Nothing strange.
Getting rating of at least 2500 is only one condition for the title of GM but there is a second condition of getting enough GM norms

Getting rating of at least 2200 is also only one condition for the title of WIM but you need also to get enough norms.

Of course, but I have always wondered how it's possible to get such a high rating without getting norms as a side-effect, so to say.

[Uri Blass]

To me it's odd that a man rated over 2500 is not a GM, and that a woman rated over 2200 is not a WIM.

Nothing strange.
Getting rating of at least 2500 is only one condition for the title of GM but there is a second condition of getting enough GM norms

Getting rating of at least 2200 is also only one condition for the title of WIM but you need also to get enough norms.

Of course, but I have always wondered how it's possible to get such a high rating without getting norms as a side-effect, so to say.

It is possible when not all tournament that you play are for norms(and maybe you played 10 tournaments for norms) and you did not play enough tournaments and in part of the tournaments that you played for norms you miss the norm by 0.5 point or 1 point
.
In theory it is also possible when you already played more than 50 tournaments for fide norms but you always missed the norm by 0.5 point or by 1 point but I do not think that the last reason is something common.

[Uri Blass]

Unfortunately the strongest player IM Ariel Erenberg will not be able to participate so we will have only knight handicap games and not knight for pawn f7 handicap games.

I expect other games with full knight odds to be played 14:00 pm and 17:30 pm israel time.
Total number of games I expect is 13 games.

FM Ori Kochavi fide rating 2365(first game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816873

FM guy Levin fide rating 2354(only second game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2824213

Nadav Zemach fide rating 2238(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820927

WFM Michelle Katkov fide rating 2208(only first game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816393

FM Pavel Chernomordik fide rating fide rating 2178(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2804530

Guy Gov fide rating 2149(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820200

Itay Sitbon(2 games) fide rating 2062
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820706

Alon Cohen(second game) fide rating 2016
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2801809

Oded Ross(second game does not have fide rating except blitz but I believe at the level of fide rating 2000 at long time control)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2811189

[lkaufman]

Unfortunately the strongest player IM Ariel Erenberg will not be able to participate so we will have only knight handicap games and not knight for pawn f7 handicap games.

I expect other games with full knight odds to be played 14:00 pm and 17:30 pm israel time.
Total number of games I expect is 13 games.

FM Ori Kochavi fide rating 2365(first game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816873

FM guy Levin fide rating 2354(only second game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2824213

Nadav Zemach fide rating 2238(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820927

WFM Michelle Katkov fide rating 2208(only first game)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2816393

FM Pavel Chernomordik fide rating fide rating 2178(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2804530

Guy Gov fide rating 2149(2 games)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820200

Itay Sitbon(2 games) fide rating 2062
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2820706

Alon Cohen(second game) fide rating 2016
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2801809

Oded Ross(second game does not have fide rating except blitz but I believe at the level of fide rating 2000 at long time control)
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2811189

Average FIDE rating (incl. est 2000 for last player) 2169. This is about 250 elo below the performance at knight odds in Rapid for Dragon; here the humans will be playing classical, which may raise their level by nearly a class, and with the simul handicap thrown in it should really be a tossup. The humans might do better in the second round, since although they will individually switch knights between games, they may learn something from the games of the other players at the same knight handicap.

[Uri Blass]

I am not sure if the humans are going to do better in the second round.

Part of them play 2 games so they may be tired from the first game.
One of them is going to play active chess in an earlier tournament at the same day so I doubt he is going to have a lot of time to learn from the first game.