Eduard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:38 pm
It doesn't even matter if Niemann cheated. ...
What do you mean it doesn't matter that he cheated?? Why does everyone seem to think it is not a big deal to cheat ???!!!!! What in the world is the matter with your guys ???? If cheaters can get away with cheating then you can pretty much say goodbye to competitive chess! ...
Yes, I'd also like to know why so many here are okay with Niemann cheating...
Even if it were only the instances he's admitted to, why do they think that's okay?
Dude (if I may revert to my younger self) NO ONE here is "okay with Niemann cheating"! That is all in your mind...perhaps some other things too.
The only question is about his OTB play.
I believe I heard yesterday that the organizers of this current even were going to issue a statement or something in a couple of days. That might be today. One can speculate...
Last edited by CornfedForever on Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:11 pm
What on earth are you talking about????. This is a human vs human chess game ... who cares about the main strongest engine line !!!
I'm talking about why you claim Ng3+, Kg1, Qxe4 is more obvious than an immediate Qxe4 to win a pawn. Why is Ng3+ needed first? Tell me that. I only included engine analysis to show that Ng3+ makes sense when followed up by Qh5. But it makes no sense with the human Qxe4... if a human is playing for Qxe4 then they will do it immediately. Why wouldn't they?
OMG !!! Anyone see the interview MC gave? He praised Maxim Dlugy for training Hans !!! Was that tonque in cheek ?? I had no idea Maxim Dlugy was involved with Hans training. If I remember correctly Maxim Dlugy was banned from Chess.com for cheating. I might be wrong but I could swear I remember something about that a while back and maybe someone else can double check that. If so then that does confirm that the most likely scenario is that Chess.com gave MC information on Hans cheating and the amount of cheating he did.
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:28 pm
OMG !!! Anyone see the interview MC gave? He praised Maxim Dlugy for training Hans !!! Was that tonque in cheek ?? I had no idea Maxim Dlugy was involved with Hans training. If I remember correctly Maxim Dlugy was banned from Chess.com for cheating. I might be wrong but I could swear I remember something about that a while back and maybe someone else can double check that. If so then that does confirm that the most likely scenario is that Chess.com gave MC information on Hans cheating and the amount of cheating he did.
Oh, wait. That was Ivanov getting nabbed, not Dlugy.
Stop with the gossip.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:11 pm
What on earth are you talking about????. This is a human vs human chess game ... who cares about the main strongest engine line !!!
I'm talking about why you claim Ng3+, Kg1, Qxe4 is more obvious than an immediate Qxe4 to win a pawn. Why is Ng3+ needed first? Tell me that. I only included engine analysis to show that Ng3+ makes sense when followed up by Qh5. But it makes no sense with the human Qxe4... if a human is playing for Qxe4 then they will do it immediately. Why wouldn't they?
No... a human would want to strap the king first with a check and put the Knight on a more active square where a Queen and Knight usually are an incredibly dangerous combination against a King and needs immediate attention by black and freezes any possible counterplay. A human will want to try and nullify any possible counterplay ... Hans playing the move he did ... it just gave Pragg total counterplay. An engine doesnt care about allowing counterplay because it can calculate everything to a finitie outcome ... humans prefer to avoid that if possible and given a choice will chose the less forceful (yet winning) continuation that gives their opponent the least possible counterchances.
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:28 pm
OMG !!! Anyone see the interview MC gave? He praised Maxim Dlugy for training Hans !!! Was that tonque in cheek ?? I had no idea Maxim Dlugy was involved with Hans training. If I remember correctly Maxim Dlugy was banned from Chess.com for cheating. I might be wrong but I could swear I remember something about that a while back and maybe someone else can double check that. If so then that does confirm that the most likely scenario is that Chess.com gave MC information on Hans cheating and the amount of cheating he did.
I taught Dlugy how to play shogi about forty years ago (he caught on very quickly, much faster than most GMs), and my son taught Niemann chess when Niemann was 11. Does this make me responsible for any possible cheating ? Dlugy later served time in prison in Russia, though I wouldn't assume anything negative from that fact. Dlugy was considered to be among the best blitz players in the world in the 80s and 90s. None of this tells us anything about whether Carlsen was suggesting any wrong-doing by Dlugy. Regarding some of the positions and moves by Niemann mentioned in this thread, I don't find any one of them particularly surprising or suspicious; the grounds for suspicion are statistical and based on his post-game interviews, not much on specific moves. I predict that we'll learn a lot more within the next few days; best to withhold judgment until then.
Eduard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:38 pmIt doesn't even matter if Niemann cheated. ...
What do you mean it doesn't matter that he cheated?? Why does everyone seem to think it is not a big deal to cheat ???!!!!! What in the world is the matter with your guys ???? If cheaters can get away with cheating then you can pretty much say goodbye to competitive chess! ...
Yes, I'd also like to know why so many here are okay with Niemann cheating...
Even if it were only the instances he's admitted to, why do they think that's okay?
Dude (if I may revert to my younger self) NO ONE here is "okay with Niemann cheating"! That is all in your mind...perhaps some other things too.
The only question is about his OTB play.
I believe I heard yesterday that the organizers of this current even were going to issue a statement or something in a couple of days. That might be today. One can speculate...
Are you kidding? Look at Eduard's post (which was quoted in the post), where he says, "It doesn't even matter if Niemann cheated." Look at all the defenders of Niemann in this thread, when the one thing we know for a fact is that Neimann is a cheater, because he's admitted to it. (We just don't know how much, when and where.)
Of course, they are okay with him cheating. Otherwise, they would condemn him instead of defending him, and instead of making personal attacks against Carlsen, Nakamura, Aronian, ...
Last edited by Collingwood on Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I watched the Baer tournament live on playchess today. Niemann played very poorly in round 13. He lost with white pieces against a weaker player of the tournament. As I understand it, his opponent found it very easy to gain an advantage. Here was the weak Niemann.
In round 14 against Iwantschuck, Niemann excelled with the black pieces.
In round 15, Niemann only needed a draw to qualify. Poor Duda! Duda was played to the ground by an outstanding Niemann. Niemann only misplayed one move (engine showed 0.00). However, the entire game was so complicated that more mistakes were sure to come. But no longer by Niemann. He played like from another planet. With a thinking time of only 15 minutes, it was fantastic, I had an engine running. Niemann needed less than 5 minutes to be at +5. So, my prediction: either Niemann is an incredibly good cheater or, if he is not, he will soon become a new star on the chess scene.
I absolutely know the difference between Dlugy and Ivanov and remember Dlugy from ICC days... I think there was a Tourney on Chess.com where he was winning everything and got disconnected. There was a big fuss about that at the time of whether he was just disconnected or got cut off by Chess.com. Maybe it was nothing but somehow I remember that and when MC mentioned Dlugy then it did seem to click. If he is now in prison in Russia then I hope it is not because of anything nefarious he did and it is just a political thing. If he is in prison how could he be Hans trainer?
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:13 pm
I absolutely know the difference between Dlugy and Ivanov and remember Dlugy from ICC days... I think there was a Tourney on Chess.com where he was winning everything and got disconnected. There was a big fuss about that at the time of whether he was just disconnected or got cut off by Chess.com. Maybe it was nothing but somehow I remember that and when MC mentioned Dlugy then it did seem to click. If he is now in prison in Russia then I hope it is not because of anything nefarious he did and it is just a political thing. If he is in prison how could he be Hans trainer?
Stop with your gossiping. You’re worse than Nakamura.
A quick check of Wikipedia and other sources:
Dlugy was imprisoned in Russia in April 2005 on charges of embezzlement, but was acquitted and freed later that year.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
? Dlugy later served time in prison in Russia, though I wouldn't assume anything negative from that fact. Dlugy was considered to be among the best blitz players in the world in the 80s and 90s. None of this tells us anything about whether Carlsen was suggesting any wrong-doing by Dlugy. Regarding some of the positions and moves by Niemann mentioned in this thread, I don't find any one of them particularly surprising or suspicious; the grounds for suspicion are statistical and based on his post-game interviews, not much on specific moves. I predict that we'll learn a lot more within the next few days; best to withhold judgment until then.
Look at Eduard's post (which was quoted in the post), where he says, "It doesn't even matter if Niemann cheated." Look at all the defenders of Niemann in this thread, when the one thing we know for a fact is that Neimann is a cheater, because he's admitted to it. (We just don't know how much, when and where.)