Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

User avatar
Ajedrecista
Posts: 2116
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain.

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello Chris:
chrisw wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:58 am Queen sac, looks entirely speculative, but worked ...

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2023.02.26"]
[Round "48"]
[White "Stockfish_13"]
[Black "Chess-System-Tal-1.59"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C16"]
[Opening "French"]
[Variation "Winawer, Petrosian Variation"]
[TimeControl "20+0.05"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "135"]
[GameDuration "00:00:43"]
[GameEndTime "2023-02-26T08:57:50.470 W. Europe Standard Time"]
[GameStartTime "2023-02-26T08:57:06.599 W. Europe Standard Time"]

1. e4 { book } 1... e6 { book } 2. d4 { book } 2... d5 { book } 3. Nc3 {
book } 3... Bb4 { book } 4. e5 { book } 4... Qd7 { book } 5. a3 { book }
5... Bf8 { book } 6. Nh3 { book } 6... b6 { book } 7. Nf4 { book } 7... Ne7
{ book } 8. Bb5 { book } 8... c6 { book } 9. Ba4 { +1.23/19 0.57s } 9... b5
{ -1.20/16 0.79s } 10. Bb3 { +1.30/21 0.55s } 10... c5 { -1.78/15 0.76s }
11. Nce2 { +1.01/19 0.54s } 11... cxd4 { -1.50/16 0.61s } 12. Nxd4 {
+1.04/19 0.47s } 12... Nbc6 { -1.59/16 0.77s } 13. Nxb5 { +1.14/19 0.91s }
13... Nf5 { -1.34/17 0.58s } 14. g4 { +1.32/17 0.17s } 14... Nh4 { -1.50/16
0.54s } 15. Ba4 { +1.31/17 0.27s } 15... Be7 { -1.67/16 0.80s } 16. Nd4 {
+1.20/20 0.47s } 16... Bb7 { -2.21/16 0.45s } 17. O-O { +1.29/19 0.35s }
17... O-O { -1.06/16 0.94s } 18. Nd3 { +1.19/21 1.3s } 18... Nxd4 { 0.00/15
0.57s } 19. Bxd7 { +1.65/18 0.46s } 19... Ndf3+ { -0.20/13 0.33s } 20. Kh1
{ +1.77/19 0.28s } 20... d4 { +0.59/14 0.66s } 21. Bb5 { +2.11/20 0.69s }
21... f5 { +1.08/13 0.55s } 22. g5 { +2.78/19 1.5s } 22... Nxe5+ { +0.59/12
0.88s } 23. f3 { +2.75/16 0.19s } 23... Nexf3 { 0.00/13 0.31s } 24. Ba6 {
+2.84/19 0.64s } 24... Be4 { -0.41/15 0.70s } 25. Rf2 { +2.95/17 0.18s }
25... Rad8 { +0.98/13 0.34s } 26. g6 { +1.60/21 3.6s } 26... e5 { +3.45/13
0.52s } 27. Re2 { +1.41/20 1.6s } 27... Ba8 { +1.86/12 0.30s } 28. Nf4 {
+0.26/17 0.28s } 28... Rf6 { +6.41/13 0.33s } 29. Bc4+ { -0.97/17 0.44s }
29... Kh8 { +6.98/14 0.40s } 30. Bf7 { -2.17/18 0.93s } 30... hxg6 {
+7.96/14 0.42s } 31. Bd5 { -3.02/20 0.85s } 31... Rxd5 { +8.89/15 0.30s }
32. Nxd5 { -2.71/17 0.27s } 32... Bxd5 { +9.58/15 0.24s } 33. c4 { -3.16/16
0.23s } 33... Bc6 { +8.54/14 0.27s } 34. b4 { -2.70/13 0.092s } 34... Kh7 {
+8.65/14 0.43s } 35. Raa2 { -5.77/19 1.7s } 35... d3 { +9.80/16 0.55s } 36.
Qxd3 { -5.25/17 0.17s } 36... Ne1+ { +10.67/14 0.22s } 37. Qd5 { -3.78/16
0.046s } 37... Bxd5+ { +11.15/15 0.20s } 38. cxd5 { -5.16/19 0.21s } 38...
Nd3 { +11.40/17 0.30s } 39. Be3 { -5.45/22 1.1s } 39... Rd6 { +11.39/16
0.31s } 40. Bc5 { -5.55/17 0.041s } 40... Rd7 { +13.52/16 0.28s } 41. Rad2
{ -6.83/19 0.42s } 41... Nxc5 { +15.71/16 0.23s } 42. d6 { -6.22/14 0.012s
} 42... Ne4 { +15.13/15 0.21s } 43. dxe7 { -6.62/15 0.060s } 43... Rxe7 {
+15.99/16 0.30s } 44. Rxe4 { -6.55/14 0.040s } 44... fxe4 { +18.18/15 0.21s
} 45. Re2 { -6.77/14 0.041s } 45... Rf7 { +19.21/17 0.24s } 46. Kg1 {
-6.50/15 0.050s } 46... Rf4 { +18.54/17 0.20s } 47. b5 { -7.99/16 0.16s }
47... Nf5 { +20.39/17 0.35s } 48. a4 { -8.08/15 0.024s } 48... e3 {
+19.94/17 0.20s } 49. a5 { -6.76/11 0.015s } 49... Rb4 { +21.48/17 0.26s }
50. b6 { -7.02/13 0.029s } 50... axb6 { +21.75/17 0.17s } 51. axb6 {
-7.36/13 0.043s } 51... Rxb6 { +22.29/15 0.13s } 52. Kg2 { -7.66/13 0.053s
} 52... Rb1 { +23.45/16 0.12s } 53. Kh3 { -9.54/15 0.14s } 53... g5 {
+24.59/16 0.20s } 54. Rg2 { -7.85/14 0.055s } 54... Kg6 { +26.32/16 0.12s }
55. Rg1 { -9.94/13 0.044s } 55... Rb4 { +28.65/16 0.23s } 56. Kg2 {
-9.72/13 0.015s } 56... g4 { +28.62/16 0.16s } 57. Kh1 { -9.53/13 0.017s }
57... Kg5 { +31.16/16 0.27s } 58. h3 { -16.84/16 0.12s } 58... e2 {
+32.54/16 0.18s } 59. Rc1 { -54.25/18 0.065s } 59... gxh3 { +40.21/15 0.17s
} 60. Kg1 { -M14/21 0.054s } 60... Kf4 { +40.66/15 0.15s } 61. Kf2 {
-24.17/13 0.023s } 61... Re4 { +49.17/15 0.16s } 62. Re1 { -77.01/19 0.061s
} 62... g5 { +55.50/15 0.081s } 63. Rxe2 { -M18/23 0.063s } 63... Rxe2+ {
+55.59/17 0.16s } 64. Kxe2 { -M16/21 0.048s } 64... g4 { +56.92/18 0.25s }
65. Kf1 { -77.92/18 0.024s } 65... g3 { +62.54/18 0.24s } 66. Ke1 { -M14/24
0.048s } 66... h2 { +M13/17 0.086s } 67. Kd1 { -M12/21 0.017s } 67... h1=Q+
{ +M11/22 0.087s } 68. Kc2 { -M10/21 0.015s, Black wins by adjudication }
0-1
[/pgn]
This game is even more impressive for me. Being a pawn down, it is true that the queen sac is among top SF choices, but not as an only move. It was around +0.8 to +1 for white, together with 18.- ..., Qc7 and 18.- ..., Qc8. OTOH, 25.- g6? is the turning point of the game, where white started to go wrong.

Regarding the opening: 5.- ..., Bf8 looked really strange in my eyes, but I checked that it is a common move. Maybe protecting g7 against Qg4 attack? The opening followed the game Tal (1—0) Vaganian from 1988 until 9.- Ba4, when CSTal deviated with 9.- ..., b5 instead of 9.- ..., Ba6 played by Vaganian.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
chrisw
Posts: 4631
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:28 pm
Location: Midi-Pyrénées
Full name: Christopher Whittington

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by chrisw »

don't even pretend to understand what's happening here (well, not yet anyway) ....

sacrifice 10 ... Nb4 and never give up ...

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2023.02.26"]
[Round "184"]
[White "Berserk_9"]
[Black "Chess-System-Tal-1.59"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B07"]
[Opening "Pirc defense"]
[TimeControl "20+0.05"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[GameDuration "00:00:27"]
[GameEndTime "2023-02-26T15:10:35.966 W. Europe Standard Time"]
[GameStartTime "2023-02-26T15:10:08.834 W. Europe Standard Time"]

1. e4 { book } 1... d6 { book } 2. d4 { book } 2... Nf6 { book } 3. Nc3 {
book } 3... e5 { book } 4. Nge2 { book } 4... Be7 { book } 5. h3 { book }
5... exd4 { book } 6. Qxd4 { book } 6... Nc6 { book } 7. Qd2 { book } 7...
Be6 { book } 8. Nf4 { book } 8... Qd7 { book } 9. b3 { +1.33/16 0.99s }
9... O-O-O { -2.17/15 0.55s } 10. Nfd5 { +1.39/15 0.36s } 10... Nb4 {
-2.59/15 0.83s } 11. Nxb4 { +1.71/17 0.46s } 11... d5 { -2.73/16 0.53s }
12. Nbxd5 { +2.20/17 0.27s } 12... Bxd5 { -4.25/16 0.48s } 13. exd5 {
+2.40/18 0.49s } 13... Bb4 { -4.18/17 0.83s } 14. a3 { +2.47/20 0.34s }
14... Rhe8+ { -5.03/16 0.82s } 15. Be2 { +2.21/20 0.20s } 15... Rxe2+ {
-5.55/17 1.3s } 16. Kxe2 { +2.47/17 0.24s } 16... Qe8+ { -5.82/16 0.43s }
17. Kf3 { +2.67/19 0.46s } 17... Ne4 { -5.82/18 0.62s } 18. Qf4 { +2.70/19
0.31s } 18... Bxc3 { -4.78/16 0.38s } 19. Rb1 { +2.90/20 1.1s } 19... Nf6 {
-4.82/14 0.76s } 20. Qe3 { +3.49/17 0.34s } 20... Qd7 { -4.06/14 0.32s }
21. Qxc3 { +3.40/16 0.25s } 21... Qf5+ { -4.46/15 0.67s } 22. Ke2 {
+4.79/17 0.34s } 22... Nxd5 { -3.11/16 0.42s } 23. Qb2 { +4.45/17 0.52s }
23... Qh5+ { -3.44/16 0.29s } 24. f3 { +5.35/16 0.33s } 24... Re8+ {
-5.36/15 0.37s } 25. Kf1 { +6.52/14 0.20s } 25... Qg6 { -5.43/16 0.30s }
26. Bd2 { +6.80/14 0.16s } 26... Re2 { -3.47/17 0.30s } 27. Kxe2 { +7.70/16
0.16s } 27... Qxg2+ { -4.31/14 0.25s } 28. Kd3 { +2.99/19 1.3s } 28...
Qxf3+ { -5.33/16 0.27s } 29. Kc4 { +2.59/19 0.43s } 29... Nb6+ { -4.72/16
0.68s } 30. Kd4 { +5.91/17 0.18s } 30... c5+ { 0.00/25 0.29s } 31. Kxc5 {
+6.22/14 0.16s } 31... Qd5+ { 0.00/26 0.24s } 32. Kb4 { +6.51/14 0.13s }
32... Qe4+ { 0.00/27 0.24s } 33. c4 { +2.57/15 0.47s } 33... Nd5+ { 0.00/27
0.30s } 34. Kb5 { +0.01/17 0.64s } 34... a6+ { +0.10/28 1.2s } 35. Ka5 {
-0.02/22 0.12s } 35... Qe7 { +M15/31 0.19s } 36. b4 { -M14/29 0.18s } 36...
Qc7+ { +M13/36 0.20s } 37. Ka4 { -M12/34 0.13s } 37... Nb6+ { +M11/41 0.22s
} 38. Ka5 { -M10/40 0.14s } 38... Nxc4+ { +M9/45 0.19s } 39. Ka4 { -M8/45
0.12s } 39... Nb6+ { +M7/51 0.19s } 40. Ka5 { -M6/75 0.25s } 40... Nd7+ {
+M5/80 0.11s } 41. Ka4 { -M4/85 0.14s } 41... b5+ { +M3/116 0.027s } 42.
Kb3 { -M2/91 0.18s, Black wins by adjudication } 0-1[/pgn]
Peter Berger
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:56 pm

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by Peter Berger »

dkappe wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:06 pm An interesting proposition. When one realizes that a deep search has a shallow search at the tail end, it gives one hope. My experience, however, is that SF gets dramatically better as you add on a few ply. Nevertheless, best of luck.
This is the classical Vincent Diepeveen argument. Diep e.g. was a chess engine that claimed to have a strong and huge evaluation but was supposedly suffering from not being able to get sufficient depth to make it work. Famously Diep claimed that once his engine will get depth 16 in the middlegame it will be virtually unbeatable.

This claim was interesting as the engine was kind of competitive in like 2002-2004 at longer time controls shown by real tournament results.

When it is about Diep, it was possible to make an educated guess even back then, as some of its evaluation seemed to to be problematic.

On the other end of the discussion was Christophe Theron, who kind of was the first one I remember to make the point that slower time controls just don't matter at all statistically when it is about engine strength.

It seems to me to be a matter of simple logic that whatever weakness Stockfish shows at shallow depths ( if not ridiculously low) will also show up at longer time controls. Just as it is so incredibly strong, this might be very difficult to prove.

But it is great that someone tries, and if the program is only like 100-200 ELO weaker, this should definitely be taken seriously IMHO.
User avatar
mclane
Posts: 18908
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: US of Europe, germany
Full name: Thorsten Czub

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by mclane »

chrisw wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:58 am Queen sac, looks entirely speculative, but worked ...

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2023.02.26"]
[Round "48"]
[White "Stockfish_13"]
[Black "Chess-System-Tal-1.59"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C16"]
[Opening "French"]
[Variation "Winawer, Petrosian Variation"]
[TimeControl "20+0.05"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "135"]
[GameDuration "00:00:43"]
[GameEndTime "2023-02-26T08:57:50.470 W. Europe Standard Time"]
[GameStartTime "2023-02-26T08:57:06.599 W. Europe Standard Time"]

1. e4 { book } 1... e6 { book } 2. d4 { book } 2... d5 { book } 3. Nc3 {
book } 3... Bb4 { book } 4. e5 { book } 4... Qd7 { book } 5. a3 { book }
5... Bf8 { book } 6. Nh3 { book } 6... b6 { book } 7. Nf4 { book } 7... Ne7
{ book } 8. Bb5 { book } 8... c6 { book } 9. Ba4 { +1.23/19 0.57s } 9... b5
{ -1.20/16 0.79s } 10. Bb3 { +1.30/21 0.55s } 10... c5 { -1.78/15 0.76s }
11. Nce2 { +1.01/19 0.54s } 11... cxd4 { -1.50/16 0.61s } 12. Nxd4 {
+1.04/19 0.47s } 12... Nbc6 { -1.59/16 0.77s } 13. Nxb5 { +1.14/19 0.91s }
13... Nf5 { -1.34/17 0.58s } 14. g4 { +1.32/17 0.17s } 14... Nh4 { -1.50/16
0.54s } 15. Ba4 { +1.31/17 0.27s } 15... Be7 { -1.67/16 0.80s } 16. Nd4 {
+1.20/20 0.47s } 16... Bb7 { -2.21/16 0.45s } 17. O-O { +1.29/19 0.35s }
17... O-O { -1.06/16 0.94s } 18. Nd3 { +1.19/21 1.3s } 18... Nxd4 { 0.00/15
0.57s } 19. Bxd7 { +1.65/18 0.46s } 19... Ndf3+ { -0.20/13 0.33s } 20. Kh1
{ +1.77/19 0.28s } 20... d4 { +0.59/14 0.66s } 21. Bb5 { +2.11/20 0.69s }
21... f5 { +1.08/13 0.55s } 22. g5 { +2.78/19 1.5s } 22... Nxe5+ { +0.59/12
0.88s } 23. f3 { +2.75/16 0.19s } 23... Nexf3 { 0.00/13 0.31s } 24. Ba6 {
+2.84/19 0.64s } 24... Be4 { -0.41/15 0.70s } 25. Rf2 { +2.95/17 0.18s }
25... Rad8 { +0.98/13 0.34s } 26. g6 { +1.60/21 3.6s } 26... e5 { +3.45/13
0.52s } 27. Re2 { +1.41/20 1.6s } 27... Ba8 { +1.86/12 0.30s } 28. Nf4 {
+0.26/17 0.28s } 28... Rf6 { +6.41/13 0.33s } 29. Bc4+ { -0.97/17 0.44s }
29... Kh8 { +6.98/14 0.40s } 30. Bf7 { -2.17/18 0.93s } 30... hxg6 {
+7.96/14 0.42s } 31. Bd5 { -3.02/20 0.85s } 31... Rxd5 { +8.89/15 0.30s }
32. Nxd5 { -2.71/17 0.27s } 32... Bxd5 { +9.58/15 0.24s } 33. c4 { -3.16/16
0.23s } 33... Bc6 { +8.54/14 0.27s } 34. b4 { -2.70/13 0.092s } 34... Kh7 {
+8.65/14 0.43s } 35. Raa2 { -5.77/19 1.7s } 35... d3 { +9.80/16 0.55s } 36.
Qxd3 { -5.25/17 0.17s } 36... Ne1+ { +10.67/14 0.22s } 37. Qd5 { -3.78/16
0.046s } 37... Bxd5+ { +11.15/15 0.20s } 38. cxd5 { -5.16/19 0.21s } 38...
Nd3 { +11.40/17 0.30s } 39. Be3 { -5.45/22 1.1s } 39... Rd6 { +11.39/16
0.31s } 40. Bc5 { -5.55/17 0.041s } 40... Rd7 { +13.52/16 0.28s } 41. Rad2
{ -6.83/19 0.42s } 41... Nxc5 { +15.71/16 0.23s } 42. d6 { -6.22/14 0.012s
} 42... Ne4 { +15.13/15 0.21s } 43. dxe7 { -6.62/15 0.060s } 43... Rxe7 {
+15.99/16 0.30s } 44. Rxe4 { -6.55/14 0.040s } 44... fxe4 { +18.18/15 0.21s
} 45. Re2 { -6.77/14 0.041s } 45... Rf7 { +19.21/17 0.24s } 46. Kg1 {
-6.50/15 0.050s } 46... Rf4 { +18.54/17 0.20s } 47. b5 { -7.99/16 0.16s }
47... Nf5 { +20.39/17 0.35s } 48. a4 { -8.08/15 0.024s } 48... e3 {
+19.94/17 0.20s } 49. a5 { -6.76/11 0.015s } 49... Rb4 { +21.48/17 0.26s }
50. b6 { -7.02/13 0.029s } 50... axb6 { +21.75/17 0.17s } 51. axb6 {
-7.36/13 0.043s } 51... Rxb6 { +22.29/15 0.13s } 52. Kg2 { -7.66/13 0.053s
} 52... Rb1 { +23.45/16 0.12s } 53. Kh3 { -9.54/15 0.14s } 53... g5 {
+24.59/16 0.20s } 54. Rg2 { -7.85/14 0.055s } 54... Kg6 { +26.32/16 0.12s }
55. Rg1 { -9.94/13 0.044s } 55... Rb4 { +28.65/16 0.23s } 56. Kg2 {
-9.72/13 0.015s } 56... g4 { +28.62/16 0.16s } 57. Kh1 { -9.53/13 0.017s }
57... Kg5 { +31.16/16 0.27s } 58. h3 { -16.84/16 0.12s } 58... e2 {
+32.54/16 0.18s } 59. Rc1 { -54.25/18 0.065s } 59... gxh3 { +40.21/15 0.17s
} 60. Kg1 { -M14/21 0.054s } 60... Kf4 { +40.66/15 0.15s } 61. Kf2 {
-24.17/13 0.023s } 61... Re4 { +49.17/15 0.16s } 62. Re1 { -77.01/19 0.061s
} 62... g5 { +55.50/15 0.081s } 63. Rxe2 { -M18/23 0.063s } 63... Rxe2+ {
+55.59/17 0.16s } 64. Kxe2 { -M16/21 0.048s } 64... g4 { +56.92/18 0.25s }
65. Kf1 { -77.92/18 0.024s } 65... g3 { +62.54/18 0.24s } 66. Ke1 { -M14/24
0.048s } 66... h2 { +M13/17 0.086s } 67. Kd1 { -M12/21 0.017s } 67... h1=Q+
{ +M11/22 0.087s } 68. Kc2 { -M10/21 0.015s, Black wins by adjudication }
0-1
[/pgn]
Amazing attacking game.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
Paul Bedrey
Posts: 1146
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:46 am
Location: Saratoga Springs New York

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by Paul Bedrey »

I second the original post. Rebel's performance is impressive. After 12 games it's 6-0-6 against Houdini 6. I'm playing the match by hand using each program on its own computer. Match time control is game in 10 minutes 6 seconds per move, 4 core, ponder on. I had anticipated both programs roughly equal but Rebel is surprisingly strong. Nice aggressive style too.

Games were played in Fat Fritz GUI. I never could get Rebel to work properly in Arena. Berserk 11.1 had the same problem. They'd work for about 8 moves then stop and have to be restarted again only to stop in another 8-10 moves. So the problem is in Arena.

Thanks Ed for a very entertaining program.
User avatar
Ajedrecista
Posts: 2116
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain.

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello again:
chrisw wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:25 pm don't even pretend to understand what's happening here (well, not yet anyway) ....

sacrifice 10 ... Nb4 and never give up ...

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2023.02.26"]
[Round "184"]
[White "Berserk_9"]
[Black "Chess-System-Tal-1.59"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B07"]
[Opening "Pirc defense"]
[TimeControl "20+0.05"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[GameDuration "00:00:27"]
[GameEndTime "2023-02-26T15:10:35.966 W. Europe Standard Time"]
[GameStartTime "2023-02-26T15:10:08.834 W. Europe Standard Time"]

1. e4 { book } 1... d6 { book } 2. d4 { book } 2... Nf6 { book } 3. Nc3 {
book } 3... e5 { book } 4. Nge2 { book } 4... Be7 { book } 5. h3 { book }
5... exd4 { book } 6. Qxd4 { book } 6... Nc6 { book } 7. Qd2 { book } 7...
Be6 { book } 8. Nf4 { book } 8... Qd7 { book } 9. b3 { +1.33/16 0.99s }
9... O-O-O { -2.17/15 0.55s } 10. Nfd5 { +1.39/15 0.36s } 10... Nb4 {
-2.59/15 0.83s } 11. Nxb4 { +1.71/17 0.46s } 11... d5 { -2.73/16 0.53s }
12. Nbxd5 { +2.20/17 0.27s } 12... Bxd5 { -4.25/16 0.48s } 13. exd5 {
+2.40/18 0.49s } 13... Bb4 { -4.18/17 0.83s } 14. a3 { +2.47/20 0.34s }
14... Rhe8+ { -5.03/16 0.82s } 15. Be2 { +2.21/20 0.20s } 15... Rxe2+ {
-5.55/17 1.3s } 16. Kxe2 { +2.47/17 0.24s } 16... Qe8+ { -5.82/16 0.43s }
17. Kf3 { +2.67/19 0.46s } 17... Ne4 { -5.82/18 0.62s } 18. Qf4 { +2.70/19
0.31s } 18... Bxc3 { -4.78/16 0.38s } 19. Rb1 { +2.90/20 1.1s } 19... Nf6 {
-4.82/14 0.76s } 20. Qe3 { +3.49/17 0.34s } 20... Qd7 { -4.06/14 0.32s }
21. Qxc3 { +3.40/16 0.25s } 21... Qf5+ { -4.46/15 0.67s } 22. Ke2 {
+4.79/17 0.34s } 22... Nxd5 { -3.11/16 0.42s } 23. Qb2 { +4.45/17 0.52s }
23... Qh5+ { -3.44/16 0.29s } 24. f3 { +5.35/16 0.33s } 24... Re8+ {
-5.36/15 0.37s } 25. Kf1 { +6.52/14 0.20s } 25... Qg6 { -5.43/16 0.30s }
26. Bd2 { +6.80/14 0.16s } 26... Re2 { -3.47/17 0.30s } 27. Kxe2 { +7.70/16
0.16s } 27... Qxg2+ { -4.31/14 0.25s } 28. Kd3 { +2.99/19 1.3s } 28...
Qxf3+ { -5.33/16 0.27s } 29. Kc4 { +2.59/19 0.43s } 29... Nb6+ { -4.72/16
0.68s } 30. Kd4 { +5.91/17 0.18s } 30... c5+ { 0.00/25 0.29s } 31. Kxc5 {
+6.22/14 0.16s } 31... Qd5+ { 0.00/26 0.24s } 32. Kb4 { +6.51/14 0.13s }
32... Qe4+ { 0.00/27 0.24s } 33. c4 { +2.57/15 0.47s } 33... Nd5+ { 0.00/27
0.30s } 34. Kb5 { +0.01/17 0.64s } 34... a6+ { +0.10/28 1.2s } 35. Ka5 {
-0.02/22 0.12s } 35... Qe7 { +M15/31 0.19s } 36. b4 { -M14/29 0.18s } 36...
Qc7+ { +M13/36 0.20s } 37. Ka4 { -M12/34 0.13s } 37... Nb6+ { +M11/41 0.22s
} 38. Ka5 { -M10/40 0.14s } 38... Nxc4+ { +M9/45 0.19s } 39. Ka4 { -M8/45
0.12s } 39... Nb6+ { +M7/51 0.19s } 40. Ka5 { -M6/75 0.25s } 40... Nd7+ {
+M5/80 0.11s } 41. Ka4 { -M4/85 0.14s } 41... b5+ { +M3/116 0.027s } 42.
Kb3 { -M2/91 0.18s, Black wins by adjudication } 0-1[/pgn]
<ironic mode=on>What is wrong with CSTal?<ironic mode=off> All these gems —always with black—, what we can say? This time, the opening followed the game Tabatabaei (½—½) Berkes from 2021 World Cup, when the novelty comes at 10.- ..., Nb4 already commented move. Berkes played the quiet 10.- ..., Rhe8.

This novelty looks unsound this time according to SF 15.1. OTOH, 15.- ..., Rxe2+ (R×B+) is the way to go according to SF, giving up the exchange, although with a bad eval for black.

White could have had a simpler middlegame with 18.- axb4 instead of 18.- Qf4. Surprisingly, a quiet move like 26.- Bd2 completely equalizes the position with 26.- ..., Re2; and 28.- Kd3 loses the game (28.- Kd1 or 28.- Ke1 are drawn after 28.- ..., Qxh1+, recovering the rook). Crazy chess.

White can still fight in a lost position with 29.- Kd4, but 29.- Kc4 is at most a checkmate in 14 moves according to SF 15.1, which was perfectly played by both engines since then. As a side note, CSTal could have played 40.- Na4+, gifting other piece.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
chrisw
Posts: 4631
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:28 pm
Location: Midi-Pyrénées
Full name: Christopher Whittington

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by chrisw »

Chess-System-Tal more 'mature' network finds an improvement on the earlier game, or maybe SF13 plays it slightly differently. Anyway, same queen sacrifice ....

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2023.03.02"]
[Round "48"]
[White "Stockfish_13"]
[Black "Chess-System-Tal-1.59"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C16"]
[Opening "French"]
[Variation "Winawer, Petrosian Variation"]
[TimeControl "20+0.05"]
[PlyCount "96"]
[GameDuration "00:00:38"]
[GameEndTime "2023-03-02T15:08:40.096 W. Europe Standard Time"]
[GameStartTime "2023-03-02T15:08:01.886 W. Europe Standard Time"]

1. e4 { book } 1... e6 { book } 2. d4 { book } 2... d5 { book } 3. Nc3 {
book } 3... Bb4 { book } 4. e5 { book } 4... Qd7 { book } 5. a3 { book }
5... Bf8 { book } 6. Nh3 { book } 6... b6 { book } 7. Nf4 { book } 7... Ne7
{ book } 8. Bb5 { book } 8... c6 { book } 9. Ba4 { +1.23/19 0.56s } 9... b5
{ -0.98/17 0.70s } 10. Bb3 { +1.30/21 0.52s } 10... c5 { -0.96/18 0.51s }
11. Nce2 { +1.01/19 0.53s } 11... cxd4 { -0.98/18 0.75s } 12. Nxd4 {
+1.04/19 0.45s } 12... Nbc6 { -1.22/17 0.69s } 13. Nxb5 { +1.14/19 0.88s }
13... Nf5 { -1.03/16 0.64s } 14. g4 { +1.32/17 0.17s } 14... Nh4 { -1.07/16
0.83s } 15. Ba4 { +1.31/17 0.29s } 15... Be7 { -1.11/15 0.77s } 16. Nd4 {
+1.13/21 0.82s } 16... Bb7 { -1.08/17 0.41s } 17. O-O { +1.30/20 0.53s }
17... O-O { -0.60/16 0.43s } 18. Nd3 { +1.16/19 0.23s } 18... Nxd4 {
+0.25/15 0.41s } 19. Bxd7 { +2.51/21 0.78s } 19... Ndf3+ { +0.06/15 0.38s }
20. Kh1 { +2.84/21 0.27s } 20... d4 { +0.37/15 0.34s } 21. Ba4 { +2.46/23
3.7s } 21... g5 { +1.64/14 0.68s } 22. b4 { +4.25/18 0.69s } 22... Rac8 {
+0.88/15 0.90s } 23. Bb3 { +3.48/21 2.4s } 23... Kg7 { +2.94/14 0.69s } 24.
a4 { +3.75/19 0.87s } 24... h5 { +5.51/14 0.42s } 25. gxh5 { +5.03/17 0.12s
} 25... Rh8 { +4.99/14 0.36s } 26. Nb2 { -3.20/19 2.4s } 26... Rxh5 {
+10.61/13 0.36s } 27. h3 { -9.17/19 1.6s } 27... Rch8 { +12.21/13 0.52s }
28. Re1 { -9.82/19 0.50s } 28... Nxe1+ { +13.73/12 0.34s } 29. Kg1 {
-9.34/17 0.093s } 29... Nhf3+ { +14.97/12 0.34s } 30. Kf1 { -11.01/16 0.22s
} 30... Rxh3 { +14.30/15 0.40s } 31. c3 { -10.71/17 0.58s } 31... R8h4 {
+14.50/13 0.29s } 32. Nd3 { -15.05/16 1.1s } 32... Nxd3 { +18.16/11 0.22s }
33. Be3 { -16.90/19 0.50s } 33... dxe3 { +21.42/14 0.24s } 34. Qxd3 {
-18.78/19 0.22s } 34... Rh1+ { +23.97/16 0.56s } 35. Ke2 { -18.87/15 0.018s
} 35... Rxa1 { +24.60/15 0.19s } 36. Qxe3 { -19.32/18 0.066s } 36... Re1+ {
+24.53/15 0.17s } 37. Kd3 { -19.39/16 0.027s } 37... Be4+ { +26.24/16 0.38s
} 38. Qxe4 { -17.11/14 0.029s } 38... Rhxe4 { +25.85/17 0.38s } 39. Bd1 {
-18.56/15 0.11s } 39... Nxe5+ { +26.82/16 0.27s } 40. Kc2 { -18.59/14
0.025s } 40... Rf4 { +26.80/16 0.29s } 41. f3 { -21.27/14 0.069s } 41...
Kf8 { +27.89/16 0.34s } 42. a5 { -18.40/15 0.094s } 42... Rh1 { +28.26/15
0.33s } 43. Be2 { -18.71/18 0.079s } 43... Rh2 { +29.71/15 0.17s } 44. Kd1
{ -49.30/16 0.042s } 44... Nxf3 { +31.20/13 0.15s } 45. c4 { -M8/18 0.11s }
45... Nd4 { +M7/41 0.15s } 46. Bd3 { -M6/37 0.050s } 46... Rh1+ { +M5/70
0.11s } 47. Bf1 { -M4/245 0.11s } 47... Rf2 { +M3/116 0.020s } 48. b5 {
-M2/245 0.020s } 48... Rhxf1# { +M1/116 0.004s, Black mates } 0-1
[/pgn]
chrisw
Posts: 4631
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:28 pm
Location: Midi-Pyrénées
Full name: Christopher Whittington

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by chrisw »

chrisw wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:39 pm Chess-System-Tal more 'mature' network finds an improvement on the earlier game, or maybe SF13 plays it slightly differently. Anyway, same queen sacrifice ....

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2023.03.02"]
[Round "48"]
[White "Stockfish_13"]
[Black "Chess-System-Tal-1.59"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C16"]
[Opening "French"]
[Variation "Winawer, Petrosian Variation"]
[TimeControl "20+0.05"]
[PlyCount "96"]
[GameDuration "00:00:38"]
[GameEndTime "2023-03-02T15:08:40.096 W. Europe Standard Time"]
[GameStartTime "2023-03-02T15:08:01.886 W. Europe Standard Time"]

1. e4 { book } 1... e6 { book } 2. d4 { book } 2... d5 { book } 3. Nc3 {
book } 3... Bb4 { book } 4. e5 { book } 4... Qd7 { book } 5. a3 { book }
5... Bf8 { book } 6. Nh3 { book } 6... b6 { book } 7. Nf4 { book } 7... Ne7
{ book } 8. Bb5 { book } 8... c6 { book } 9. Ba4 { +1.23/19 0.56s } 9... b5
{ -0.98/17 0.70s } 10. Bb3 { +1.30/21 0.52s } 10... c5 { -0.96/18 0.51s }
11. Nce2 { +1.01/19 0.53s } 11... cxd4 { -0.98/18 0.75s } 12. Nxd4 {
+1.04/19 0.45s } 12... Nbc6 { -1.22/17 0.69s } 13. Nxb5 { +1.14/19 0.88s }
13... Nf5 { -1.03/16 0.64s } 14. g4 { +1.32/17 0.17s } 14... Nh4 { -1.07/16
0.83s } 15. Ba4 { +1.31/17 0.29s } 15... Be7 { -1.11/15 0.77s } 16. Nd4 {
+1.13/21 0.82s } 16... Bb7 { -1.08/17 0.41s } 17. O-O { +1.30/20 0.53s }
17... O-O { -0.60/16 0.43s } 18. Nd3 { +1.16/19 0.23s } 18... Nxd4 {
+0.25/15 0.41s } 19. Bxd7 { +2.51/21 0.78s } 19... Ndf3+ { +0.06/15 0.38s }
20. Kh1 { +2.84/21 0.27s } 20... d4 { +0.37/15 0.34s } 21. Ba4 { +2.46/23
3.7s } 21... g5 { +1.64/14 0.68s } 22. b4 { +4.25/18 0.69s } 22... Rac8 {
+0.88/15 0.90s } 23. Bb3 { +3.48/21 2.4s } 23... Kg7 { +2.94/14 0.69s } 24.
a4 { +3.75/19 0.87s } 24... h5 { +5.51/14 0.42s } 25. gxh5 { +5.03/17 0.12s
} 25... Rh8 { +4.99/14 0.36s } 26. Nb2 { -3.20/19 2.4s } 26... Rxh5 {
+10.61/13 0.36s } 27. h3 { -9.17/19 1.6s } 27... Rch8 { +12.21/13 0.52s }
28. Re1 { -9.82/19 0.50s } 28... Nxe1+ { +13.73/12 0.34s } 29. Kg1 {
-9.34/17 0.093s } 29... Nhf3+ { +14.97/12 0.34s } 30. Kf1 { -11.01/16 0.22s
} 30... Rxh3 { +14.30/15 0.40s } 31. c3 { -10.71/17 0.58s } 31... R8h4 {
+14.50/13 0.29s } 32. Nd3 { -15.05/16 1.1s } 32... Nxd3 { +18.16/11 0.22s }
33. Be3 { -16.90/19 0.50s } 33... dxe3 { +21.42/14 0.24s } 34. Qxd3 {
-18.78/19 0.22s } 34... Rh1+ { +23.97/16 0.56s } 35. Ke2 { -18.87/15 0.018s
} 35... Rxa1 { +24.60/15 0.19s } 36. Qxe3 { -19.32/18 0.066s } 36... Re1+ {
+24.53/15 0.17s } 37. Kd3 { -19.39/16 0.027s } 37... Be4+ { +26.24/16 0.38s
} 38. Qxe4 { -17.11/14 0.029s } 38... Rhxe4 { +25.85/17 0.38s } 39. Bd1 {
-18.56/15 0.11s } 39... Nxe5+ { +26.82/16 0.27s } 40. Kc2 { -18.59/14
0.025s } 40... Rf4 { +26.80/16 0.29s } 41. f3 { -21.27/14 0.069s } 41...
Kf8 { +27.89/16 0.34s } 42. a5 { -18.40/15 0.094s } 42... Rh1 { +28.26/15
0.33s } 43. Be2 { -18.71/18 0.079s } 43... Rh2 { +29.71/15 0.17s } 44. Kd1
{ -49.30/16 0.042s } 44... Nxf3 { +31.20/13 0.15s } 45. c4 { -M8/18 0.11s }
45... Nd4 { +M7/41 0.15s } 46. Bd3 { -M6/37 0.050s } 46... Rh1+ { +M5/70
0.11s } 47. Bf1 { -M4/245 0.11s } 47... Rf2 { +M3/116 0.020s } 48. b5 {
-M2/245 0.020s } 48... Rhxf1# { +M1/116 0.004s, Black mates } 0-1
[/pgn]
CSTal played 21 … g5 (as opposed to f5 by the earlier net), with idea Kg7 and h5 opening the h-file
User avatar
Ampzilla
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:35 am

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by Ampzilla »

The engine will not install

Any Help
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12790
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Rebel 16.2: Impressive!

Post by Dann Corbit »

What are you trying to install,it into?
If it is Arena, change the engine type to UCI
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.