Time to immigrate to another forum?

[hgm]

A bit of history for a good understanding.

The forum was founded by a group of people called the founding-fathers in November 1997. Current active members are Chris, Thorsten and me. We made an agreement with ICD Corp. they would supply the forum software and maintain it as only obligation and no further rights. The forum, its ruling and its contents are the sole property of the forum members protected and maintained by elected members called moderators. ICD profited massively from the deal, I know the REBEL numbers they ordered during the years. So far so good, a win-win situation.

During the years the rights of the forum members have been trampled, it goes too far to go into detail but the current main beef is that the current owner (Quentin) is unwilling to hand over the domain name but most importantly he is unwilling to handover the data. This while no single byte written by members is his.

For a solution Quentin need to be contacted again, a previous try by HGM and me almost succeeded (HGM did a lot of work setting up a server) till Quentin started to question the rights of the data hinting for a money deal. He has no rights. What IMO needs to happen is :

1. New elected moderators, robust people able to make a deal with Quentin.

2. New server, new modern forum software, all data transferred.

3. Discussion (or election) who becomes the new owner (or owners) of the new forum.

4. The new moderators make an agreement with the new owner(s).

Although having moderator elecions is a good idea in itself, I don't see how it would be helpful in any way for migrating the forum. Moderators can edit other member's postings. How would that be helpful in striking a deal with ChessUSA? Or setting up a new server? To give everyone an opportunity to vote in an election will take at least a month. Which seems a completely unnecessary delay.

It seems to me that, when Quentin agrees to part with the forum, the moral claim for ownership reverts to (some woulde say 'stays') with the 'founding fathers'. So if their is no storm of protest amongst the members, it seems logical that they should be trusted striking the deal with Quentin. Of course it would be essential that only people with sufficient diplomatic skill will be in direct contact with Quentin. But it seems to me Ed qualifies as such. And he already has contacted Quentin in the past.

[noobpwnftw]

And failed, is there anything else to add for reasons not to have an election that was due two years already?

[Rebel]

A bit of history for a good understanding.

The forum was founded by a group of people called the founding-fathers in November 1997. Current active members are Chris, Thorsten and me. We made an agreement with ICD Corp. they would supply the forum software and maintain it as only obligation and no further rights. The forum, its ruling and its contents are the sole property of the forum members protected and maintained by elected members called moderators. ICD profited massively from the deal, I know the REBEL numbers they ordered during the years. So far so good, a win-win situation.

During the years the rights of the forum members have been trampled, it goes too far to go into detail but the current main beef is that the current owner (Quentin) is unwilling to hand over the domain name but most importantly he is unwilling to handover the data. This while no single byte written by members is his.

For a solution Quentin need to be contacted again, a previous try by HGM and me almost succeeded (HGM did a lot of work setting up a server) till Quentin started to question the rights of the data hinting for a money deal. He has no rights. What IMO needs to happen is :

1. New elected moderators, robust people able to make a deal with Quentin.

2. New server, new modern forum software, all data transferred.

3. Discussion (or election) who becomes the new owner (or owners) of the new forum.

4. The new moderators make an agreement with the new owner(s).

Although having moderator elecions is a good idea in itself, I don't see how it would be helpful in any way for migrating the forum. Moderators can edit other member's postings. How would that be helpful in striking a deal with ChessUSA? Or setting up a new server? To give everyone an opportunity to vote in an election will take at least a month. Which seems a completely unnecessary delay.

It seems to me that, when Quentin agrees to part with the forum, the moral claim for ownership reverts to (some woulde say 'stays') with the 'founding fathers'. So if their is no storm of protest amongst the members, it seems logical that they should be trusted striking the deal with Quentin. Of course it would be essential that only people with sufficient diplomatic skill will be in direct contact with Quentin. But it seems to me Ed qualifies as such. And he already has contacted Quentin in the past.

Likewise the same counts for you as admin, we are both in good standing with Quentin. Ideally of course would be to keep the talkchess domain name, the question is if we can make safe from (the) hacker attacks. As you know during our previous try I discovered a virus and maybe there are more backdoors for hackers. Your help and knowledge would be appreciated if we come that far with Quentin.

[noobpwnftw]

I'll just say it, the forum atmosphere deteriorating was largely due to poor judgement from moderators, the shop rightfully took advantage of the incompetency of the forum asset owners, and you don't want to face the seemingly inevitable "rebellion" coming your way in an election. I will put my 5 bucks on that exact word you'll be describing it.

My advice, after going though all things that you think you did right, maybe you can start to make a list of failures and admit to them, as that might even save the day and win my 5 bucks. People got angry not because they didn't know what you did for the forum, they just hate it when you always blame someone else or duck in when shit happens. People make a living doing DDOS prevention, fixing script backdoors and make forum software, and they don't seem cost to more than your ego.

[Eelco de Groot]

A bit of history for a good understanding.

The forum was founded by a group of people called the founding-fathers in November 1997. Current active members are Chris, Thorsten and me. We made an agreement with ICD Corp. they would supply the forum software and maintain it as only obligation and no further rights. The forum, its ruling and its contents are the sole property of the forum members protected and maintained by elected members called moderators. ICD profited massively from the deal, I know the REBEL numbers they ordered during the years. So far so good, a win-win situation.

During the years the rights of the forum members have been trampled, it goes too far to go into detail but the current main beef is that the current owner (Quentin) is unwilling to hand over the domain name but most importantly he is unwilling to handover the data. This while no single byte written by members is his.

For a solution Quentin need to be contacted again, a previous try by HGM and me almost succeeded (HGM did a lot of work setting up a server) till Quentin started to question the rights of the data hinting for a money deal. He has no rights. What IMO needs to happen is :

1. New elected moderators, robust people able to make a deal with Quentin.

2. New server, new modern forum software, all data transferred.

3. Discussion (or election) who becomes the new owner (or owners) of the new forum.

4. The new moderators make an agreement with the new owner(s).

Although having moderator elecions is a good idea in itself, I don't see how it would be helpful in any way for migrating the forum. Moderators can edit other member's postings. How would that be helpful in striking a deal with ChessUSA? Or setting up a new server? To give everyone an opportunity to vote in an election will take at least a month. Which seems a completely unnecessary delay.

A family member of mine with manager experience has the adage that you should always do the most difficult thing first. Because if you get that done, you know it is likely that the rest will also get done. If not you know you are stuck but you still have time and energy to think of a solution.
To be honest I think finding people motivated enough to enter an election is by far the most daunting task in trying to keep the forum alive as a moderated forum. In Ed's forum, he at least can set up some rules. Here you will have to defend the charter. That is a far different thing. I think people would be willing to pay not having to be moderator here. I am just saying, my family member would approve of number one being the one on top of Ed's list. Because it is by far the most difficult thing.

It seems to me that, when Quentin agrees to part with the forum, the moral claim for ownership reverts to (some woulde say 'stays') with the 'founding fathers'. So if their is no storm of protest amongst the members, it seems logical that they should be trusted striking the deal with Quentin. Of course it would be essential that only people with sufficient diplomatic skill will be in direct contact with Quentin. But it seems to me Ed qualifies as such. And he already has contacted Quentin in the past.

[smatovic]

...

Sorry but I disagree, according to this poll the community is split in this regard, Ed and HGM (founder+moderator) partner already to negotiate with Quentin, noob is willing to pay the fee? and do the tech?, happy end seems in reach, let us do the election afterwards I say, if Ed+HGM+noob play together, then it is up to Quentin/the shop....

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Srdja

[noobpwnftw]

...

Sorry but I disagree, according to this poll the community is split in this regard, Ed and HGM (founder+moderator) partner already to negotiate with Quentin, noob is willing to pay the fee? and do the tech?, happy end seems in reach, let us do the election afterwards I say, if Ed+HGM+noob play together, then it is up to Quentin/the shop....

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Srdja

Correct me if I'm not getting this right, so effectively under THEIR watch, we lost the domain and the forum data and now you are suggesting that I pay a ransom that THEY negotiate, in order to get those back to THEM? What part of my brain must not be functioning, if not all of it, to agree to this brilliant plan?

[Eelco de Groot]

Don't blame Srdja for being an optimist and believing that if we work together, every obstacle can be cleared away. My natural reaction then is, which I suppose is in my character, that I am not terribly optimisic. You know like Franquin's "Zwartkijken". But I'd rather be Guust and he is always optimistic. Sometimes he is very naive but always with the best intentions. A bit like Thorsten.

I am not blaming anybody. It's just that if you want to run a forum like a true democracy, it's really a lot of work. And saying that HGM would actually really want to prolong that beyond his term is just a misconception but he will not point it out. He could have said sooner if he wanted out, but where would that have left the forum? Certainly in a bigger mess than it is now.

[smatovic]

Correct me if I'm not getting this right, so effectively under THEIR watch, we lost the domain and the forum data and now you are suggesting that I pay a ransom that THEY negotiate, in order to get those back to THEM? What part of my brain must not be functioning, if not all of it, to agree to this brilliant plan?

1. the founders did not loose the domain, they never owned it, it was part of the deal with the shop as sponsor
2. you said by yourself that you are not interested in running this spot, but could do the tech
3. literally you made an offer for the domain

I made my suggestion some time ago, to set up a registered society to run this forum, I offered my expertise as webmaster for such an round, nobody was interested in joining me....

1. set up a registered society to run TC forum
2. collect fees/donations
3. make a deal with shop for domain+DB
4. set up new TC server
5. hold moderator elections on new forum

That would be my take, but people in here like more to babble around than to take actions, I can offer only my expertise as webmaster and webprogrammer into this round, and this is obv. not enough.

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Srdja

[noobpwnftw]

So you two actually never thought about what if the same people got reelected? I never thought they were that unpopular. Even I haven't ruled out the possibility that people would just reelect them to troll me but you seem to have more confidence in it not happening.