CCT 12: Deep Junior by Amir Ban/Shay Busihnsky have entered
Moderator: Ras
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swami
- Posts: 6659
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am
Re: CCT 12: Deep Junior by Amir Ban/Shay Busihnsky have ente
Ofcourse, I agree that if the author accepts the testers/operator/bookmakers as the part of his team with their roles clearly specified, then it's Ok as per the rules.
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hgm
- Posts: 28359
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:06 am
- Location: Amsterdam
- Full name: H G Muller
Re: CCT 12: Deep Junior by Amir Ban/Shay Busihnsky have ente
Well, it seems to me that these rues are quite unambiguous:
Advanced knowedge of the program is required. So I cannot declare arbitrary persons that know how to boot a PC and to operate a keyboard a member of my team because he / she happens to bring me coffee while I am programming...2. Only the original author, Operator or a team member of the original program may enter and operate. The definition of a team member is as follows:
An individual who has internal knowledge of the program and is recognized by the author as a member of the development team.. i.e. Developer, book maker. This person must have advanced knowledge of the program, such as how the program is designed, hashing schemes, book making procedures..
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playwaycool
Re: CCT 12: Deep Junior by Amir Ban/Shay Busihnsky have ente
Tord,
I just need to clarify few things first. I would like to start with saying good job with improving Stockfish along with your team and we should expect more improvement to come when there are a team working on the program.
To go back to the CCT topic. I am hardly ever active member to be honest and therefore and I didn't mean any harm by my post. Let me explain what I mean by it in a clear manner. The rules are created in general to avoid abuse and to avoid unnecessary problems as much possible but the rules have to be reasonable as well and be fair to all participants. I believe Robert Hyatt had a good point about last year CCT and previous years as well about not allowing two operators in the same tournanent (NON part of the Program team) and also not to allow two programs that made by an author to be in, these two should have been a requirement long ago and never ever have to deal with kind issues in the future.
Rule '2a1' this year doesn't make sense. As you said this tournament is fun for the folks in the forum. For those that feel that most strong programs should join then that is just because for the competition that is easy to understand to see strong programs clash together in competition games. For those that feel this is huge disadvantage for slightly weaker programs that leave them with no chance or don't have any fun because the result is mostly predicable then all I have to say to those folks, you cannot do anything about that. There are going to be top programs joining just about every CCT at least few of them.. look at CCT12... Hiarcs, Crafty, Sjeng, Shredder, Junior, Komodo, Spark etc.. are all in, so If Stockfish/Rybke join it will not make any difference to the weaker programs because there are more participation already that happens to be too strong. I really think we may need something similar to CCT tournament for slightly lower programs to join with rating restriction to make both group of people happy!
Tord, If you busy and your team also happen to be busy, it does make sense for operator to join for you and for your team. If your Stockfish team members want to join, that is always best to do as well. This will have higher probability for the program to be in the tournament for enjoyment for people to see it play. People may not even care if you or team join but as long the program is in that's what they would like to see. Also remember you can always reject new operators if you wish he/she may not have experience to put your program online or just simply because he/she not part of the team. Author/team members always have that call. I hope I made this post more clear
I just need to clarify few things first. I would like to start with saying good job with improving Stockfish along with your team and we should expect more improvement to come when there are a team working on the program.
To go back to the CCT topic. I am hardly ever active member to be honest and therefore and I didn't mean any harm by my post. Let me explain what I mean by it in a clear manner. The rules are created in general to avoid abuse and to avoid unnecessary problems as much possible but the rules have to be reasonable as well and be fair to all participants. I believe Robert Hyatt had a good point about last year CCT and previous years as well about not allowing two operators in the same tournanent (NON part of the Program team) and also not to allow two programs that made by an author to be in, these two should have been a requirement long ago and never ever have to deal with kind issues in the future.
Rule '2a1' this year doesn't make sense. As you said this tournament is fun for the folks in the forum. For those that feel that most strong programs should join then that is just because for the competition that is easy to understand to see strong programs clash together in competition games. For those that feel this is huge disadvantage for slightly weaker programs that leave them with no chance or don't have any fun because the result is mostly predicable then all I have to say to those folks, you cannot do anything about that. There are going to be top programs joining just about every CCT at least few of them.. look at CCT12... Hiarcs, Crafty, Sjeng, Shredder, Junior, Komodo, Spark etc.. are all in, so If Stockfish/Rybke join it will not make any difference to the weaker programs because there are more participation already that happens to be too strong. I really think we may need something similar to CCT tournament for slightly lower programs to join with rating restriction to make both group of people happy!
Tord, If you busy and your team also happen to be busy, it does make sense for operator to join for you and for your team. If your Stockfish team members want to join, that is always best to do as well. This will have higher probability for the program to be in the tournament for enjoyment for people to see it play. People may not even care if you or team join but as long the program is in that's what they would like to see. Also remember you can always reject new operators if you wish he/she may not have experience to put your program online or just simply because he/she not part of the team. Author/team members always have that call. I hope I made this post more clear
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playwaycool
Re: CCT 12: Deep Junior by Amir Ban/Shay Busihnsky have ente
swami wrote:Hi Sherif,
Nice to hear from you. I think one of the Stockfish authors may show up online just once. I do remember Tord coming online and chatting in channel 64 previous CCT's.
Since you have experience being an operator for Stockfish, I don't doubt you will have any difficulty in setting up the engine in event of any crashes (however very rare the case maybe).
playwaycool wrote:If necessary I can operate Stockfish if needed. I have operated Stockfish/Glaurung back from CCT10/CCT11.
Due to the respect for the tournament polices that are in place. I find rule 2a1 not reasonable for the enjoyment of the tournament. I think people would like to see chess program to be in a tournament. I understand the need Author is more preferable to join but we can't always guarantee that.
It's should be author call whether to allow an operator to run his program in the tournament in CCT or not if he is not able to join himself. Perhaps Author must know if the operator is reliable enough to run his engine with proper interface. We certainly cannot forced authors to be online if they are on busy schedule.
im afraid if we make certain restrictions for operators we may not see enough chess programs playing in CCT with that being said I am glad to see Shredder in CCT
Thanks. But with 2a1 rule in place, im not sure. Tord made it clear he will not be able to be online during the tournanent. Any word yet from remaining team members? If they want to join. It is always the best! Also with the norm of the tournament, permission should given in order for Peter Skinner to accept the entry.