Off-topic: domination studies.

[Marimar]

Hi,
sorry for posting off-topic. I wrote the following first at the CTF, but it seems chess does not draw much interest there. Hope somebody here can help. Anyway, you can make this thread on-topic by posting your engines analysis.


Hi,
I have a nice chess book at home, "Finales artísticos de ajedrez (dominación)" by Guénrij Kasparián, Ed. Ráduga, Moscú 1982.
I think the English edition is "Domination in 2545 endgame studies". I do not know the original title, or if it was written in Russian or in Armenian (the Spanish language edition I have was translated from the Russian).

It is a big book and of course there are several typos, many in the solutions and a few in the diagrams.
There are some dual (and easier) solutions not mentioned in the text. I have not written down these kind of errors, but I have made some notices in the book for them.

There are also some serious errors. I have found six studies which are incorrect, that is, the theoretical value of the position is different from what it is supposed to be. If you are interested, just tell me and I will gladly post them.

I need your help with an obvious diagram typo. Position 1007, attributed to A. Troitski, source "Deutsche Schachzeitung" 1910
[d] 8/8/8/B5N1/7p/4k3/6Pp/4K3 w
White play and win.
The solution in the book is (I will write it down with English piece initials, in the book they are in Spanish):
1. Rd1 Kc4 2. Nd2 Kb4 3. Rb1 Ka4 4. Ne4 Rd4(d8) 5. Nc5 Ka5 6. Nb3(b7)
It does not make any sense. It should be a rook and knight versus rook study. And position 1107 (N. Veliki, "Schach" 1958, redacción de 1975) has the same diagram with the right solution. It is clear to me that by mistake position 1107 was put instead position 1007. If you have another edition of the book, could you please post position 1007? (another way would be to check the "Deutsche Schachzeitung" for 1910 and find which study by Troitski has that solution).

There are two studies which I think are incorrect, but I am not 100% sure. I need your (and your engines) help.

Position 1093, F. Bondarenko and A. Kakovin, "Shaji" 1958
[d] 4K3/2p5/B4p2/4pk2/2P2pR1/6P1/1pPP2P1/8 w
White to play and win
Solution: 1. Bc8 Ke4 2. Rf4 ef4 3. g4 b1Q 4. Bf5 Ke5 5. d4 Kd6 6. c5 Kc6 7. Be4 Kb5 8. c4
My objection: It seems that instead 3... b1Q black can win with 3... f3

Position 1166, A. Troitski "500 finales de partida" 1924
[d] 5k2/4p1N1/7K/2p1p1p1/8/1BPq4/5P1P/8 w
White to play and win
Solution: 1. Ne6 Ke8 2. Kg7 Qe4 3. Bd5 Qa4 4. f3 Qd7 5. Bc4 Q~ 6. Bb5 Qb5 7. Nc7
My objection: It seems that instead 4... Qd7 black can win with 4... g4

Thanks in advance,
José.

[George Tsavdaris]

Position 1093, F. Bondarenko and A. Kakovin, "Shaji" 1958
[d] 4K3/2p5/B4p2/4pk2/2P2pR1/6P1/1pPP2P1/8 w
White to play and win
Solution: 1. Bc8 Ke4 2. Rf4 ef4 3. g4 b1Q 4. Bf5 Ke5 5. d4 Kd6 6. c5 Kc6 7. Be4 Kb5 8. c4
My objection: It seems that instead 3... b1Q black can win with 3... f3

Yes it seems so.
3...f3 wins for black.

Position 1166, A. Troitski "500 finales de partida" 1924
[d] 5k2/4p1N1/7K/2p1p1p1/8/1BPq4/5P1P/8 w
White to play and win
Solution: 1. Ne6 Ke8 2. Kg7 Qe4 3. Bd5 Qa4 4. f3 Qd7 5. Bc4 Q~ 6. Bb5 Qb5 7. Nc7
My objection: It seems that instead 4... Qd7 black can win with 4... g4

I don't see how. After 1. Ne6 Ke8 2. Kg7 Qe4 3. Bd5 Qa4 4. f3 g4
then 5.Be4 wins for white.....

[Albert Silver]

Hi,
sorry for posting off-topic. I wrote the following first at the CTF, but it seems chess does not draw much interest there. Hope somebody here can help. Anyway, you can make this thread on-topic by posting your engines analysis.


Hi,
I have a nice chess book at home, "Finales artísticos de ajedrez (dominación)" by Guénrij Kasparián, Ed. Ráduga, Moscú 1982.
I think the English edition is "Domination in 2545 endgame studies". I do not know the original title, or if it was written in Russian or in Armenian (the Spanish language edition I have was translated from the Russian).

I have this edition. It is a very nice book. Very interesting. I actually find it very helpful to study, though I must be honest and say that of late, my study has been in other things (my game needs a lot of work).

It is a big book and of course there are several typos, many in the solutions and a few in the diagrams.
There are some dual (and easier) solutions not mentioned in the text. I have not written down these kind of errors, but I have made some notices in the book for them.

There are also some serious errors. I have found six studies which are incorrect, that is, the theoretical value of the position is different from what it is supposed to be. If you are interested, just tell me and I will gladly post them.

Please do post them and the diagram numbers. It is worth mentioning that some years ago, I read that a very exhaustive computer-aided study was made of Troitsky's studies in his magnificent opus 360 studies, and about 30% were found to either have dual solutions or have defenses. I don't remember where I saw this, but I do recall that it was mentioned that one interesting thing was that in many cases the defenses that Troitsky had missed were no less spectacular than the intended solutions.

Albert

[AdminX]

[d]8/8/8/B5N1/7p/4k3/6Pp/4K3 w

[PauloSoare]

Dr. Wael is right, you're leaving us nervous, Ted.

Paulo Soares

[Marimar]

Please do post them and the diagram numbers. It is worth mentioning that some years ago, I read that a very exhaustive computer-aided study was made of Troitsky's studies in his magnificent opus 360 studies, and about 30% were found to either have dual solutions or have defenses. I don't remember where I saw this, but I do recall that it was mentioned that one interesting thing was that in many cases the defenses that Troitsky had missed were no less spectacular than the intended solutions.

Albert

Position 25. H. Rinck, "Deutsche Schachzeitung" 1910
[d] 4b3/p7/4NK2/5N2/8/P4k2/1P2p3/8 w
White to play and win.
Book solution: 1. Nfd4 Ke3 2. Ne2 Ke2 3. Ke7 Ba4 4. b3 Bb3 5. Nd4 wins
My comment: after 5... Kd3 6. Nb3 Kc4 it is a draw

Position 239. B. Horwitz and J. Kling 1851
[d] 5B2/1n6/1k6/3K4/B7/8/8/8 w
White to play and draw.
Book solution: "obvious", no variation given.
My comment: today we know white wins these positions.

Positon 567. I. Fritz "Československy Sach" 1934
[d] 8/6b1/8/8/ 1K3B2/8/3R4/4nk2 w
White to play and win.
Book solution: 1. Bg3 Ng2 2. Rd7 Bf8 3. Kb5 Ba3 4. Rf7 Kg1 5. Bf2 Kh2 6. Rh7 wins
My comment: 1... Bh6 draws (instead 1... Ng2)

Position 581. I. Fritz "Tijdschrift v.d. KNSB" 1951
[d] k5n1/p5n1/2b5/6N1/8/7B/6R1/7K1 w
White to play and win
Book solution: 1. Nf3 Bf3 2. Rg7 Bd5 3. Bg2 Bg2 4. Rg8 wins
My comment: 3... Nf6 draws (instead 3... Bg2)

I am busy right now, I will post two positions more in a few hours.
José.

[Marimar]

Please do post them and the diagram numbers. It is worth mentioning that some years ago, I read that a very exhaustive computer-aided study was made of Troitsky's studies in his magnificent opus 360 studies, and about 30% were found to either have dual solutions or have defenses. I don't remember where I saw this, but I do recall that it was mentioned that one interesting thing was that in many cases the defenses that Troitsky had missed were no less spectacular than the intended solutions.

Albert

I see that two diagrams did not appear in my previous post, here they are again.

Positon 567. I. Fritz "Československy Sach" 1934
[d] 8/6b1/8/8/1K3B2/8/3R4/4nk2 w
White to play and win.
Book solution: 1. Bg3 Ng2 2. Rd7 Bf8 3. Kb5 Ba3 4. Rf7 Kg1 5. Bf2 Kh2 6. Rh7 wins
My comment: 1... Bh6 draws (instead 1... Ng2)

Position 581. I. Fritz "Tijdschrift v.d. KNSB" 1951
[d] k5n1/p5n1/2b5/6N1/8/7B/6R1/7K1 w
White to play and win
Book solution: 1. Nf3 Bf3 2. Rg7 Bd5 3. Bg2 Bg2 4. Rg8 wins
My comment: 3... Nf6 draws (instead 3... Bg2)

Now the new ones.

Position 641. L. Kamenetski "64" 1930
[d] R3B3/8/p2p4/8/8/7K/1b6/1b5k w
White to play and win
Book solution: 1. Bc6 Kg1 2. Rg8 Kf1 3. Rb8 Bf5 4. Kh4 Bf6 5. Kh5 Bg7 6. Rb7(g8) Bg~ 7. Rf7(f8) wins
My comment: 4... Bg7 draws (instead 4... Bf6)

Position 644. V. Bron "Shajmatni Listok" 1931
[d] 6b1/2b1p3/8/8/5P2/3R4/7K/3B1k2 w
White to play and win
Book solution: 1. Kg3 e5 2. Bh5 ef4 3. Kf3 Kg1 4. Rd7 Bb3 5. Rc7 Bd1 6. Kf4 Bh5 7. Rc5 Be8 8. Kg3 Kf1 9. Rf5 K~ 10. Re5 wins
My comment: 4... Be5 draws (instead 4... Bb3)

And it seems position 1093 (in my original post) is incorrect too, at least George agrees.
Greetings,
José.

[Marimar]

Please do post them and the diagram numbers. It is worth mentioning that some years ago, I read that a very exhaustive computer-aided study was made of Troitsky's studies in his magnificent opus 360 studies, and about 30% were found to either have dual solutions or have defenses. I don't remember where I saw this, but I do recall that it was mentioned that one interesting thing was that in many cases the defenses that Troitsky had missed were no less spectacular than the intended solutions.

Albert

Of course one diagram did not appear, the FEN was wrong. Here it is corrected.
Position 581. I. Fritz "Tijdschrift v.d. KNSB" 1951
[d] k5n1/p5n1/2b5/6N1/8/7B/6R1/6K1 w
White to play and win
Book solution: 1. Nf3 Bf3 2. Rg7 Bd5 3. Bg2 Bg2 4. Rg8 wins
My comment: 3... Nf6 draws (instead 3... Bg2)

José.

[PauloSoare]

José, do you know these two sites? I think they will help you
in some studies.

1- Shredder: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

2- ChessOk: http://chessok.com/?page_id=88

Paulo Soares