[d] r1b1qr1k/1pp3pp/p3p3/n1b1PpN1/5N1P/6B1/PPP1QPP1/2KR3R w - - 0 16
Solution: Rd8 !!!
Evaluation: Huge advantage for White. Around +3 to +5. If your engine is rated around 2400-2700 and finds this move, then it really has potential to makes its way to top 5, provided it is being regularly updated.
Explanation: What a Sacrifice! To divert the opponents queen and move your queen to h5 file and launch an attack on the king side.
What's the time taken to find Rd8?!
Test Position: Rd8!!!
Moderator: Ras
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Ignacio
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm
Re: Test Position: Rd8!!!
Hi Swami,
On my PC:
Hiarcs: 2 seconds
Bright: 5 seconds
The King: 30 seconds
Toga: 47 seconds
Glaurung: 52 seconds
Deep Shredder: 73 seconds
Naum: 126 seconds
Zappa: 128 seconds
Best,
Ignacio.
On my PC:
Hiarcs: 2 seconds
Bright: 5 seconds
The King: 30 seconds
Toga: 47 seconds
Glaurung: 52 seconds
Deep Shredder: 73 seconds
Naum: 126 seconds
Zappa: 128 seconds
Best,
Ignacio.
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Terry McCracken
- Posts: 16465
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
- Location: Canada
Re: Test Position: Rd8!!!
It's forced mate, very nice. Do you have the game source? I like recording the whole game for my records.swami wrote:[d] r1b1qr1k/1pp3pp/p3p3/n1b1PpN1/5N1P/6B1/PPP1QPP1/2KR3R w - - 0 16
Solution: Rd8 !!!
Evaluation: Huge advantage for White. Around +3 to +5. If your engine is rated around 2400-2700 and finds this move, then it really has potential to makes its way to top 5, provided it is being regularly updated.
Explanation: What a Sacrifice! To divert the opponents queen and move your queen to h5 file and launch an attack on the king side.
What's the time taken to find Rd8?!
Best,
Terry
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George Tsavdaris
- Posts: 1627
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:35 pm
Re: Test Position: Rd8!!!
I guess this is harder although not difficult, since Bright takes much more time to solve it than the original.Ignacio wrote:Hi Swami,
On my PC:
Hiarcs: 2 seconds
Bright: 5 seconds
The King: 30 seconds
Toga: 47 seconds
Glaurung: 52 seconds
Deep Shredder: 73 seconds
Naum: 126 seconds
Zappa: 128 seconds
[d]r1b1qr1k/2p3pp/4p3/1pb1PpN1/pn3N1P/P7/1PP1QPP1/2KR3R w - - 0 1
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
-
JVMerlino
- Posts: 1407
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:15 pm
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: Test Position: Rd8!!!
I suppose you can say it's a "forced mate" since the win is clear. But I don't think you can force a checkmate in under 20 moves from the initial position. I've already confirmed that after:
1.Rd8 Qxd8 2.Qh5 h6 3.Qg6 hxg5 4.hxg5+ Kg8 5.Rh7 Rf7 6.Qh5 Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxd8 Kxd8 9.Qxf7
...there is no mate in 8 for White if Black responds reasonably.
jm
1.Rd8 Qxd8 2.Qh5 h6 3.Qg6 hxg5 4.hxg5+ Kg8 5.Rh7 Rf7 6.Qh5 Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxd8 Kxd8 9.Qxf7
...there is no mate in 8 for White if Black responds reasonably.
jm
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Terry McCracken
- Posts: 16465
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
- Location: Canada
Re: Test Position: Rd8!!!
But there is a Forced Mate under 20 moves! Try 4. Nh5!!JVMerlino wrote:I suppose you can say it's a "forced mate" since the win is clear. But I don't think you can force a checkmate in under 20 moves from the initial position. I've already confirmed that after:
1.Rd8 Qxd8 2.Qh5 h6 3.Qg6 hxg5 4.hxg5+ Kg8 5.Rh7 Rf7 6.Qh5 Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxd8 Kxd8 9.Qxf7
...there is no mate in 8 for White if Black responds reasonably.
jm
Terry
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Eelco de Groot
- Posts: 4701
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
- Full name: Eelco de Groot
Re: Test Position: Rd8!!!
Well, about thirty minutes. But this is the first, untuned, working version of Ancalagon. And it gets a score 0f +21! Who can beat thatswami wrote: What's the time taken to find Rd8?!
Eelco
[d]r1b1qr1k/1pp3pp/p3p3/n1b1PpN1/5N1P/6B1/PPP1QPP1/2KR3R w - -
Engine: Ancalagon 2.0 Beta (256 MB)
by Tord Romstad, Eelco de Groot
10.01 0:01 +2.19 1.c3 Ba7 2.h5 h6 3.Ng6+ Kg8 4.Nxf8 Qxf8
5.Nf3 b5 6.Nd4 Nc4 (581.833) 341
11.01 0:02 +2.50 1.c3 Nc6 2.h5 h6 3.Ng6+ Kg8 4.Nf3 Ne7
5.Nxf8 Qxf8 6.b4 Bb6 7.Kb1 (1.052.237) 368
12.01 0:04 +2.49 1.c3 Nc6 2.h5 h6 3.Ng6+ Kg8 4.Nf3 Ne7
5.Nxf8 Qxf8 6.Qc4 Nd5 7.Rxd5 exd5
8.Qxd5+ Kh8 (1.899.625) 389
13.01 0:07 +2.00 1.c3 Bb6 2.h5 h6 3.Ng6+ Kg8 4.Nxf8 Kxf8
5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Kb1 Bc6 7.Ka1 Bd5 8.b3 (3.053.002) 404
14.01 0:13 +1.84 1.c3 Bb6 2.h5 h6 3.Ng6+ Kg8 4.Nxf8 Kxf8
5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Kb1 Bc6 7.b4 Be4+ 8.Ka1 Nc6
9.Bf4 (5.763.300) 413
15.01 0:34 +2.17 1.c3 Ba7 2.h5 h6 3.Ng6+ Kg8 4.Nf3 Bd7
5.Nxf8 Kxf8 6.c4 Ba4 7.b3 Bc6 8.b4 Bxf3
9.Qxf3 Nxc4 10.Qxb7 (14.720.026) 425
16.01 1:06 +2.60 1.c3 Nc6 2.h5 h6 3.Qc4 Bb6 4.Ng6+ Kg8
5.Nf3 Ne7 6.Nxf8 Qxf8 7.Bh4 Qe8
8.Kb1 Nd5 9.g4 g5 (28.779.249) 433
17.01 2:11 +2.62 1.c3 Bb6 2.h5 h6 3.Ng6+ Kg8 4.Nh3 Bd7
5.Nhf4 Bb5 6.Qe1 Nc4 7.b3 Na3 8.Nxf8 Qxf8
9.c4 Bc6 10.Nxe6 (57.035.193) 433
17.02 5:39 +3.05 1.a3 Kg8 2.b4 Qb5 3.Qxb5 axb5
4.Ngxe6 Bxe6 5.Nxe6 Nc4 6.bxc5 Rxa3
7.Kb1 Rfa8 8.Rd8+ Rxd8 9.Nxd8 Nd2+
10.Kc1 Ra1+ 11.Kxd2 Rxh1 12.f3 Rg1 (143.788.296) 424
18.01 9:35 +2.60 1.a3 h6 2.b4 Be7 3.Ngxe6 Bxe6 4.Nxe6 Qa4
5.Qd3 Rfe8 6.Nxc7 Red8 7.Qc3 Rac8
8.bxa5 Qxa3+ 9.Qxa3 Bxa3+ 10.Kb1 Rxd1+
11.Rxd1 Rxc7 12.Rd3 Bb4 13.Rd5 (239.842.728) 416
18.09 32:31 +21.00 1.Rd8 Bd7 2.Rxa8 Nc6 3.Rxe8 Bxe8
4.Ngxe6 Nd4 5.Qc4 Nxe6 6.Nxe6 h6
7.Nxf8 Bxf8 8.Qxc7 b6 9.Qxb6 Bf7
10.Qxa6 Bd5 11.f3 (833.866.928) 427
best move: Rd1-d8 time: 35:10.219 min n/s: 425.876 nodes: 898.680.000
-
Terry McCracken
- Posts: 16465
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
- Location: Canada
Re: Test Position: Rd8!!!
Here's some analysis, albeit it needs work.Liegs wrote:The h6 loses pretty quickly
Qxg5 postpones it longer
First your Qxg5.
1. Rd8 Qxd8 2. Qh5 Qxg5 3. hxg5 Kg8 4. Qxh7+ Kf7 5. g6+ Ke8 6. Qxg7 Be7 7. Bh4 Kd7 8. Qxe7+ Kc6 9. Nxe6 Nb3+ 10. axb3 Bxe6 11. Qxe6+ Kb5 12. Be7 c6 13. Qc4+ Kb6 14. Bd6 Ka7 15. Qc5+ b6 16. Rh7+ Rf7 17. Rxf7 mate
Harder is 1..Bd7!! and needs more work.
1. Rd8 Bd7 2. Rxa8 Bb5 3. Qd1 Be7 4. Rxe8 Bxe8 5. Ngxe6 Rf7 6. Qd5 Nc6 7. Nxc7 Rf8 8. Nxe8 Rxe8 9. Qd7 Rb8 10. e6 Rg8 11. Qxb7 h6 12. Ng6+ Kh7 13. Nxe7 Nxe7 14. Qxe7 f4 15. Bxf4 Kh8 16. Be5 Kh7 17. Qf7 a5 18. e7 Kh8 19. e8=Q Rxe8 20. Qxg7 mate
Terry
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Dann Corbit
- Posts: 12845
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
- Location: Redmond, WA USA
Re: Test Position: Rd8!!!
Quite an interesting position.swami wrote:[d] r1b1qr1k/1pp3pp/p3p3/n1b1PpN1/5N1P/6B1/PPP1QPP1/2KR3R w - - 0 16
Solution: Rd8 !!!
Evaluation: Huge advantage for White. Around +3 to +5. If your engine is rated around 2400-2700 and finds this move, then it really has potential to makes its way to top 5, provided it is being regularly updated.
Explanation: What a Sacrifice! To divert the opponents queen and move your queen to h5 file and launch an attack on the king side.
What's the time taken to find Rd8?!
It is interesting which engines solved it and which ones did not solve it within 2 minutes:
Code: Select all
Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Alaric707
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 17 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 4:46:29 PM, Total time: 12:02:07 AM Rated time: 00:17 = 17 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: AnMon_560
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 2 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 4:48:46 PM, Total time: 12:04:24 AM Rated time: 00:02 = 2 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Alfil811Optimized
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 31 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 4:50:55 PM, Total time: 12:06:34 AM Rated time: 00:31 = 31 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Arasanx 10.3
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 43 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 4:53:08 PM, Total time: 12:08:46 AM Rated time: 00:43 = 43 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Aristarch 4.50
1) Rd1-d8 c2-c3
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 4:55:21 PM, Total time: 12:11:00 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: BaronUci
1) Rd1-d8 c2-c3
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 4:57:33 PM, Total time: 12:13:11 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Booot413
1) Rd1-d8 Qe2-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 4:57:46 PM, Total time: 12:13:24 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Bright-0.3a
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 16 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:00:01 PM, Total time: 12:15:39 AM Rated time: 00:16 = 16 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: ChessTiger2007UCI
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 112 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:02:13 PM, Total time: 12:17:51 AM Rated time: 01:52 = 112 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Colossus2007d
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 5 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:04:23 PM, Total time: 12:20:02 AM Rated time: 00:05 = 5 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Crafty221_win32_ja
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:06:34 PM, Total time: 12:22:13 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Deep Frenzee
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 31 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:08:49 PM, Total time: 12:24:28 AM Rated time: 00:31 = 31 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Delfi
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:10:59 PM, Total time: 12:26:38 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: DeepSjeng 1.6
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:13:12 PM, Total time: 12:28:51 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: EngineShredder10UCI
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:15:25 PM, Total time: 12:31:04 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Fruit-2-3-1
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:17:38 PM, Total time: 12:33:17 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Gandalf60
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:19:49 PM, Total time: 12:35:27 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Glaurung 2.1 32 bit
1) Rd1-d8 c2-c3
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:22:01 PM, Total time: 12:37:40 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Hamsters
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:24:14 PM, Total time: 12:39:53 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Hiarcs11.2SPUCI
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 13 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:26:27 PM, Total time: 12:42:05 AM Rated time: 00:13 = 13 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Jonny 2.83
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:28:46 PM, Total time: 12:44:24 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Ktulu_75
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:30:57 PM, Total time: 12:46:36 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: LGEvolution
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 7 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:33:10 PM, Total time: 12:48:48 AM Rated time: 00:07 = 7 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Loop
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 8 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:35:21 PM, Total time: 12:51:00 AM Rated time: 00:08 = 8 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Movei UCI
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:37:34 PM, Total time: 12:53:13 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Naum 3.1
1) Rd1-d8 a2-a3
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:39:47 PM, Total time: 12:55:25 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Nejmet-307
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:42:06 PM, Total time: 12:57:44 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Pepito-159
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 78 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:44:18 PM, Total time: 12:59:56 AM Rated time: 01:18 = 78 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Pharaon
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 3 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:46:41 PM, Total time: 1:02:20 AM Rated time: 00:03 = 3 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Prodeo
1) Rd1-d8 c2-c3
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:48:53 PM, Total time: 1:04:32 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Pseudo07c
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:51:07 PM, Total time: 1:06:46 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Ruffian_210
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 51 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:53:18 PM, Total time: 1:08:56 AM Rated time: 00:51 = 51 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Rybkav2.3.2a.w32
1) Rd1-d8 a2-a3
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:55:30 PM, Total time: 1:11:08 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Rybka_WinFinder_v2.2.w32
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 114 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:57:40 PM, Total time: 1:13:19 AM Rated time: 01:54 = 114 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Scorpio
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 38 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 5:59:51 PM, Total time: 1:15:30 AM Rated time: 00:38 = 38 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Slow
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 23 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:02:03 PM, Total time: 1:17:41 AM Rated time: 00:23 = 23 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Smarthink UCI
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 22 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:04:15 PM, Total time: 1:19:53 AM Rated time: 00:22 = 22 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: SOS-51_Arena
1) Rd1-d8 c2-c3
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:06:28 PM, Total time: 1:22:07 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Spike1.2
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 15 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:08:44 PM, Total time: 1:24:22 AM Rated time: 00:15 = 15 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: T20080404x
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:11:03 PM, Total time: 1:26:42 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: TogaII142JD-1cpu
1) Rd1-d8 a2-a3
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:13:15 PM, Total time: 1:28:53 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Trace
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 19 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:15:26 PM, Total time: 1:31:05 AM Rated time: 00:19 = 19 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Ufim802
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 106 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:17:39 PM, Total time: 1:33:18 AM Rated time: 01:46 = 106 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: WildCat_8
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 9 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:19:51 PM, Total time: 1:35:29 AM Rated time: 00:09 = 9 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Yace Paderborn
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 104 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:22:03 PM, Total time: 1:37:41 AM Rated time: 01:44 = 104 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Yin56
1) Rd1-d8 Rd1-d8 * 30 Seconds
1 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:24:16 PM, Total time: 1:39:54 AM Rated time: 00:30 = 30 Seconds
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Analysis from E:\rd8.epd
Analyzing engine: Zappa
1) Rd1-d8 h4-h5
0 of 1 matching moves
5/23/2008 6:26:28 PM, Total time: 1:42:06 AM Rated time: 02:00 = 120 Seconds