1.e4 nf6 2.e5 ng1 anybody?

[S.Taylor]

I don't yet have the Rybka aquarium etc, but if anyone does have, or anyone has seen this opening idea, can you comment on these first two moves (4 ply's) and any follow-ups? Might there be some value to retreating back to first square, which is not like simply being stupid?

[kiroje]

I don't yet have the Rybka aquarium etc, but if anyone does have, or anyone has seen this opening idea, can you comment on these first two moves (4 ply's) and any follow-ups? Might there be some value to retreating back to first square, which is not like simply being stupid?

I think its called Alekhines defence brooklyn variation afaik - hypermorden to the extreme

[Dann Corbit]

From this position:
[d]rnbqkb1r/pppppppp/5n2/4P3/8/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq -
Nd5 is the only move that makes sense. White scores 57% from here.
Ng8 costs 2 tempo in development.

White wins 67% of the games from this position:
[d]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/4P3/8/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq -

In short, don't even think about it.

[swami]

Ng1??


I think you meant Ng8...

anyway, It's two tempos and a waste of move, As Dann has pointed out. You shouldn't have played Nf6 Alekhine in the first place if you plan to take back the knight to where it came from.

[BubbaTough]

Objectively, this opening is perfect! With perfect play from both sides the result (draw) is the same as at the beginning of the game. Thus, there is no better way for black to play, from an alpha-beta perspective .

-Sam

[Ovyron]

Objectively, this opening is perfect! With perfect play from both sides the result (draw) is the same as at the beginning of the game. Thus, there is no better way for black to play, from an alpha-beta perspective .

-Sam

Correct, actually, I challenge anyone unassisted to beat Rybka 3 from this position:

[d]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/4P3/8/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

She doesn't think you're far ahead:

Engine: Rybka 3 1-cpu 32-bit (64 MB)
by Vasik Rajlich, Larry Kaufman
8.00 0:00 +0.39 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 dxe5 5.Nxe5 Nd7 (13.079) 14
9.00 0:02 +0.54 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 dxe5 5.Nxe5 Nd7 6.Nxd7 Bxd7 7.Bc4 (31.250) 13
10.00 0:04 +0.49 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 dxe5 5.Nxe5 Nd7 6.Nxd7 Bxd7 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.O-O (57.945) 13
11.00 0:06 +0.49 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 dxe5 5.Nxe5 Nd7 6.Nxd7 Bxd7 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.O-O (90.290) 13
12.01 0:38 +0.54 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Nf3 d5 5.Bb5 e6 6.O-O Nge7 7.d4 Nf5 (475.308) 12
13.01 1:04 +0.47 3.Nc3 d5 4.d4 Nc6 5.Bb5 e6 6.Nf3 Bb4 7.O-O Bxc3 8.bxc3 Nge7 (790.177) 12
13.02 1:23 +0.53 3.d4 Nc6 4.Nf3 d5 5.c4 Bg4 6.Be3 e6 7.cxd5 Bb4+ 8.Nc3 (971.352) 11
14.01 1:48 +0.49 3.d4 Nc6 4.Nf3 d5 5.c4 Bg4 6.cxd5 Qxd5 7.Nc3 Qd7 8.Bb5 a6 9.Ba4 (1.258.858) 11

[S.Taylor]

Ng1??


I think you meant Ng8...

anyway, It's two tempos and a waste of move, As Dann has pointed out. You shouldn't have played Nf6 Alekhine in the first place if you plan to take back the knight to where it came from.

Thanks. I did mean Ng8.
What you say after this seems obvious, obviously. Except I wondered if there might be some worthwhile reason, (for those who know how to follow it up afterwards). I've seen it played a long time ago, and have been intrigued about it ever since!
So IS it just as bad as losing 2 tempos? Or half a tempo? Or what? [and nothing wierd and wonderful about it?]

[Ovyron]

The only thing "wonderful" about it is that, if you're much stronger than your opponent you can use it and get rid of the opening knowledge of your opponent (I recall it was used against me, and I lost, but my opponent could have beaten me faster with some other offbeat opening anyway.)

So, it's only for surprise factor against much weaker opposition, and to have fun if you want to explore what is basically new territory, but losing 2 tempi isn't recommended for serious play (This is worse than playing Nf3 Ng1 as white, so think about it.)

[S.Taylor]

The only thing "wonderful" about it is that, if you're much stronger than your opponent you can use it and get rid of the opening knowledge of your opponent (I recall it was used against me, and I lost, but my opponent could have beaten me faster with some other offbeat opening anyway.)

So, it's only for surprise factor against much weaker opposition, and to have fun if you want to explore what is basically new territory, but losing 2 tempi isn't recommended for serious play (This is worse than playing Nf3 Ng1 as white, so think about it.)

Ah! so White didn't overextend or anything similar which might compensate for the the lost tempi (if followed up in some ingenius way).