About bayeselo and white advantage

[Kempelen]

I use bayeselo with default options to compute my engine testing tournaments performance. I am also using crafty.epd . As I see bayeselo is using 32.8 as ELO adventage for playing back. Do you thing it would be better for that kind of tournaments which has starting positions, to disable that adventage and get a estimation based of pure wins/draw/loses?

I dont have clear that that advantage would be useful when no opening is played.....

[bob]

I use bayeselo with default options to compute my engine testing tournaments performance. I am also using crafty.epd . As I see bayeselo is using 32.8 as ELO adventage for playing back. Do you thing it would be better for that kind of tournaments which has starting positions, to disable that adventage and get a estimation based of pure wins/draw/loses?

I dont have clear that that advantage would be useful when no opening is played.....

Alternating colors for the same position will wash this out. And assuming your positions are reasonable, whether you play an opening or not shouldn't matter, since that advantage should apply to the entire game where white moves first?

[Vinvin]

Bob, with your enormous database of test, could you measure how big is the advantage for white with crafty (perf_with_white - perf_with_black) ?

Thanks !

[Adam Hair]

You could determine advantage and drawelo from your tournaments
using advdist and drawdist functions in Bayeselo. Then use the computed
values in place of advantage (32.8) and drawelo (97.3).

[bob]

Bob, with your enormous database of test, could you measure how big is the advantage for white with crafty (perf_with_white - perf_with_black) ?

Thanks !

I could try, but I am not sure the result would be valid. Remember, my positions are chosen from late opening positions, and when I found anything with a gross imbalance, I removed it. Also, I can't guarantee that the positions I use occur with any similarity to the frequency such positions would occur in real games. Some openings might be under-represented, or some over.

[Vinvin]

In fact, you're right, "white or black" doesn't means anything in this situation !

[bob]

In fact, you're right, "white or black" doesn't means anything in this situation !

There are other issues as well. If you play A vs B and alternate colors, it is still hard to understand the "white advantage" when A might simply be much stronger and win every game with white, and then every game with black as the colors are alternated.