I use bayeselo with default options to compute my engine testing tournaments performance. I am also using crafty.epd . As I see bayeselo is using 32.8 as ELO adventage for playing back. Do you thing it would be better for that kind of tournaments which has starting positions, to disable that adventage and get a estimation based of pure wins/draw/loses?
I dont have clear that that advantage would be useful when no opening is played.....
About bayeselo and white advantage
Moderator: Ras
-
- Posts: 620
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
- Location: Madrid - Spain
-
- Posts: 20943
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Birmingham, AL
Re: About bayeselo and white advantage
Alternating colors for the same position will wash this out. And assuming your positions are reasonable, whether you play an opening or not shouldn't matter, since that advantage should apply to the entire game where white moves first?Kempelen wrote:I use bayeselo with default options to compute my engine testing tournaments performance. I am also using crafty.epd . As I see bayeselo is using 32.8 as ELO adventage for playing back. Do you thing it would be better for that kind of tournaments which has starting positions, to disable that adventage and get a estimation based of pure wins/draw/loses?
I dont have clear that that advantage would be useful when no opening is played.....
-
- Posts: 5287
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
- Full name: Vincent Lejeune
Re: About bayeselo and white advantage
Bob, with your enormous database of test, could you measure how big is the advantage for white with crafty (perf_with_white - perf_with_black) ?
Thanks !
Thanks !
-
- Posts: 3226
- Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 10:31 pm
- Location: Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina
Re: About bayeselo and white advantage
You could determine advantage and drawelo from your tournaments
using advdist and drawdist functions in Bayeselo. Then use the computed
values in place of advantage (32.8) and drawelo (97.3).
using advdist and drawdist functions in Bayeselo. Then use the computed
values in place of advantage (32.8) and drawelo (97.3).
-
- Posts: 20943
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Birmingham, AL
Re: About bayeselo and white advantage
I could try, but I am not sure the result would be valid. Remember, my positions are chosen from late opening positions, and when I found anything with a gross imbalance, I removed it. Also, I can't guarantee that the positions I use occur with any similarity to the frequency such positions would occur in real games. Some openings might be under-represented, or some over.Vinvin wrote:Bob, with your enormous database of test, could you measure how big is the advantage for white with crafty (perf_with_white - perf_with_black) ?
Thanks !
-
- Posts: 5287
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
- Full name: Vincent Lejeune
Re: About bayeselo and white advantage
In fact, you're right, "white or black" doesn't means anything in this situation !
-
- Posts: 20943
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Birmingham, AL
Re: About bayeselo and white advantage
There are other issues as well. If you play A vs B and alternate colors, it is still hard to understand the "white advantage" when A might simply be much stronger and win every game with white, and then every game with black as the colors are alternated.Vinvin wrote:In fact, you're right, "white or black" doesn't means anything in this situation !