Arena bug? engine evals pgn vs main window

[Martin Thoresen]

Hello,

I just noticed something weird while running an Arena tournament.

Take this game from the pgn, copied from Notepad:

Code: Select all

[Event "Tournament 001"]
[Site "MARTINTHORESEN"]
[Date "2010.02.03"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Zappa Mexico II 64-bit"]
[Black "Twisted Logic 20100131x 64-bit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B31"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Variation "Rossolimo, 3...g6 4.O-O Bg7 5.Re1 Nf6 6.c3 O-O 7.h3"]
[TimeControl "40/120:40/120:40/120"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "87"]

1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e5 Nd5 5. Bb5 a6 6. Bxc6 bxc6 7. O-O g6 8.
d4 cxd4 9. cxd4 Bg7 10. Re1 O-O 11. Nc3 {+0.21/14 12} Nxc3 {-0.15/15 11}
12. bxc3 {+0.27/7 0} a5 {-0.14/14 3} 13. Rb1 {+0.47/13 7} Ba6 {-0.22/15 3}
14. Qa4 {+0.48/13 6} Bd3 {-0.10/15 3} 15. Rb2 {+0.46/14 8} Re8 {-0.16/15 5}
16. Bg5 {+0.48/13 7} h6 {+0.11/15 3} 17. Bf4 {+0.30/13 6} Qc7 {+0.13/14 3}
18. c4 {+0.33/13 3} Reb8 {+0.24/14 3} 19. Rb3 {+0.36/13 3} Bf5 {+0.17/15 3}
20. Bd2 {+0.28/12 5} g5 {+0.05/13 3} 21. Bc3 {+0.33/12 6} Rc8 {+0.10/14 7}
22. Ra3 {+0.48/11 3} d5 {+0.01/14 8} 23. Nd2 {+0.46/11 5} Rcb8 {+0.18/12 3}
24. Bxa5 {+0.47/12 3} Qd7 {+0.15/14 3} 25. Nb3 {+0.37/12 4} Qc8 {-0.10/14
3} 26. h3 {+0.10/12 6} Be6 {+0.54/15 3} 27. Nc5 {+0.28/11 0} dxc4 {+0.31/15
3} 28. Qc2 {+0.15/12 1} Bd5 {+0.67/15 3} 29. Ra4 {+0.16/11 1} h5 {+0.66/15
4} 30. a3 {+0.31/10 1} g4 {+0.43/14 3} 31. h4 {+0.22/10 0} g3 {+0.34/13 3}
32. fxg3 {+0.03/11 1} Qg4 {+0.58/15 3} 33. Qc3 {+0.09/11 1} Bh6 {+0.71/14
4} 34. Bc7 {0.00/11 1} Rxa4 {+0.70/15 2} 35. Bxb8 {0.00/11 0} Ra8 {+0.80/16
2} 36. Bc7 {0.00/11 0} Bf4 {+0.89/16 2} 37. Kf2 {0.00/11 1} Kh8 {+1.06/15
2} 38. Re2 {-0.18/11 2} Rg8 {+1.96/15 3} 39. Re3 {-2.31/10 2} Qd1 {+4.10/13
2} 40. Ba5 {-2.20/10 1} Qh1 {+3.21/12 2} 41. Ne4 {-2.20/10 0} Rg4 {+6.43/13
3} 42. e6 {-6.30/11 8} Bxe3+ {+6.43/13 3} 43. Qxe3 {-6.30/10 0} Bxe4
{+6.49/13 3} 44. exf7 {-7.40/11 4} ... {0-1 Arena Adjudication} 0-1

As you can see, for some reason the pgn says that Zappa evaluated it's own position as favorable for white. Which if course is wrong.

BUT.

When I load the game from the pgn in Arena, it displays the correct evaluation from Zappa as favorable for black:


Any idea?

[Guenther]

I don't see it. The pgn correctly shows negative values for White since
38. Re2. May be you got confused by the different line break after Bxe4,
which was a Black move?

Guenther

[Edsel Apostol]

It seems the PGN displays the score based on the side/color (positive if winning for the side that moves, negative if losing for the side that moves) while Arena displays it based only on white perspective (positive means winning for white and losing for black, negative means winning for black and losing for white).

[Martin Thoresen]

It seems the PGN displays the score based on the side/color (positive if winning for the side that moves, negative if losing for the side that moves) while Arena displays it based only on white perspective (positive means winning for white and losing for black, negative means winning for black and losing for white).

Yes, exactly.

I had to turn the feature off, so the pgn no longer displays the evaluation and time. Because this really annoyed me, and it seems there is no way to fix it.

I really want to have the pgn output the way I'm used to through Fritz & Shredder GUI's, with the evaluation from the perspective of white.

Anyone have any idea?

Thanks Edsel, by the way for writing it in a more clear way.

[Martin Thoresen]

For what it's worth, Martin (author of Arena) is going to look into this.

Hello,

I sent this to Martin. I tried saving to FCH and then converting to PGN but that doesn't work either. Thanks for reporting. I hope Martin will release a new version soon and fix also this issue.

Regards,
Michael


country: Norway
mail: mordor@halden.net
topic: question
text:
Hello,

There is 1 issue I have with Arena.

I am used to that in the pgn file the computer evaluation is stored from white's point of view (when using Shredder Classic GUI and Fritz GUI this is the case).

But in Arena it's stored from the engine's own view, which I am not comfortable with.

When I go to Options -> Appearance -> Chessboard I can select "Values always from white's point of view", but this does not apply to the pgn file, only to the evaluation you see in Arena main window.

Is there any way you could add a second choice in this Options, for example "Apply this setting to pgn output as well". Or something like that?

Except for this issue I think Arena is an excellent GUI. Using version 2.0.1.

Best Regards,
Martin
Norway