Some tweaks to the CCT rules

[Peter Skinner]

Hello everyone,

Before, during, and after CCT12, there were many rules "tweaks" that were suggested, and I think they are a terrific idea.

In reference to rule:

Code: Select all

2. Only the original author, Operator or a team member of the original program may enter and operate. The definition of a team member is as follows:

An individual who has internal knowledge of the program and is recognized by the author as a member of the development team.. i.e. Developer, book maker. This person must have advanced knowledge of the program, such as how the program is designed, hashing schemes, book making procedures..

2a. Operators will only be allowed under the following conditions:

2a1. The author must be online during the tournament to participate in discussions in channel 64, and in the event there is an issue with their program they can provide real time support to their operator.

2a2. The operator must use the account that the author has signed up. No exceptions will be made.

2a3. No operator can operate more than one program. No exceptions will be made.

Over the course of the event, we had several authors online, but their operators were AFK. Unusual, but true.

I propose that Author's pick an "operator" or two NOW, train them on engine parameters and which interface/books you would prefer to use. This way, if an event comes up where you need hardware, you have someone readily available, and can perform. They essentially would become "Team Members", thus nullifying the need for an "operator".

You have a full year now to get one or two people ready for the next CCT event, and you have the ACCA events coming up. So I would HIGHLY recommend this practice.

In reference to rule:

Code: Select all

2. No manually operated programs, and all programs must kibitz their evaluation, and book moves/TB hits if possible. Providing as much information as possible for the viewers and participants is key. It should also be noted that 1-3 lines of text is sufficient. No need to scroll out an entire page.

Whispering is NOT what the rule states. It states kibitzing it mandatory. We had several participants who whispered instead of kibitzing, or kibitzed nothing.

Next year, it will be very simple to avoid any complaints. If you are not kibitzing at the beginning of your game, you will forfeit. If you decide that you do not want to abide by this rule, do not enter. It will be strictly enforced.

As to the book makers:

Two teams will not be able to use a book created from the same book maker.

i.e. Ted Langreck makes Crafty's books. He would be prevented from making a book for another participant. Just as a participant would be prevented from using a book created by him.

If we only allow one engine per author, then we only allow one book per book maker. That is fair right?

Ok one to this one:

Code: Select all

5. In the event of a disconnection, the party will be given 5 minutes to return to complete the game and no more than 2 disconnections  per game will be allowed. On the third time, the game will be a forfeit.

This one is being changed to 10 minutes, instead of 5. Nothing too significant, but should correct some issues.

More are coming, as I decide how to word them.

Peter

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Sorry to state this,but witnessing the Deep Junior-Komodo scandal,the rules of the CCT12 were a real mess....
Dr.D

[Harvey Williamson]

I think a rule is needed as to who is in charge of over the board decisions during a game.

1. is it the opeartor
2. The programmer but only if he is online
3. The programmer even if not online

Any claim must be made in a reasonable time and be within the spirit of the rules..

[michiguel]

Hello everyone,

Before, during, and after CCT12, there were many rules "tweaks" that were suggested, and I think they are a terrific idea.

In reference to rule:

Code: Select all

2. Only the original author, Operator or a team member of the original program may enter and operate. The definition of a team member is as follows:

An individual who has internal knowledge of the program and is recognized by the author as a member of the development team.. i.e. Developer, book maker. This person must have advanced knowledge of the program, such as how the program is designed, hashing schemes, book making procedures..

2a. Operators will only be allowed under the following conditions:

2a1. The author must be online during the tournament to participate in discussions in channel 64, and in the event there is an issue with their program they can provide real time support to their operator.

2a2. The operator must use the account that the author has signed up. No exceptions will be made.

2a3. No operator can operate more than one program. No exceptions will be made.

Over the course of the event, we had several authors online, but their operators were AFK. Unusual, but true.

I propose that Author's pick an "operator" or two NOW, train them on engine parameters and which interface/books you would prefer to use. This way, if an event comes up where you need hardware, you have someone readily available, and can perform. They essentially would become "Team Members", thus nullifying the need for an "operator".

You have a full year now to get one or two people ready for the next CCT event, and you have the ACCA events coming up. So I would HIGHLY recommend this practice.

In reference to rule:

Code: Select all

2. No manually operated programs, and all programs must kibitz their evaluation, and book moves/TB hits if possible. Providing as much information as possible for the viewers and participants is key. It should also be noted that 1-3 lines of text is sufficient. No need to scroll out an entire page.

Whispering is NOT what the rule states. It states kibitzing it mandatory. We had several participants who whispered instead of kibitzing, or kibitzed nothing.

Next year, it will be very simple to avoid any complaints. If you are not kibitzing at the beginning of your game, you will forfeit. If you decide that you do not want to abide by this rule, do not enter. It will be strictly enforced.

Suggestion: if you are not kibitzing at the beginning of you game, you are forced to "disconnect" and come back kibitzing. Rules for disconnection applies (i.e. it takes you more than 10 min or 3 times and you are out etc.), even if future disconnections are unrelated to kibitzing. I can see that sometimes you may start the game with kibitz turned off by mistake.

That is a little bit less draconian and will make it easier to enforce, but if you are going to be very strict, I am all for it too.

Anyway, there are some intermediate cases in which I do not know what you are going to do. One engine did not kibitz to me every move. I think that "easy" moves were not kibitzed.

Miguel
PS1: Why whispering does not serve the same purpose in the future?
PS2: Aaron Becker suggested that the clock should be running in case of disconnections rather than forfeiting them. I like the concept but it is probably impossible to implement.

As to the book makers:

Two teams will not be able to use a book created from the same book maker.

i.e. Ted Langreck makes Crafty's books. He would be prevented from making a book for another participant. Just as a participant would be prevented from using a book created by him.

If we only allow one engine per author, then we only allow one book per book maker. That is fair right?

Ok one to this one:

Code: Select all

5. In the event of a disconnection, the party will be given 5 minutes to return to complete the game and no more than 2 disconnections  per game will be allowed. On the third time, the game will be a forfeit.

This one is being changed to 10 minutes, instead of 5. Nothing too significant, but should correct some issues.

More are coming, as I decide how to word them.

Peter

[IanO]

Sorry to state this,but witnessing the Deep Junior-Komodo scandal,the rules of the CCT12 were a real mess....
Dr.D

Good question. How could this possibly have been ruled a win for black? Was this a time loss? In sudden death, I thought the worst such a result could be was a draw, since black has no possibility of checkmate. (Still, a shameful result for Junior.)

Ian

[Ferdy]

As to the book makers:

Two teams will not be able to use a book created from the same book maker.

i.e. Ted Langreck makes Crafty's books. He would be prevented from making a book for another participant. Just as a participant would be prevented from using a book created by him.

If we only allow one engine per author, then we only allow one book per book maker. That is fair right?
Peter

What about same book author but designed 2 different books, say the book for engine A replies c5 against e4, and the book for engine B replies e5 against e4?

I think that the book creators should not be limited on his work. They are also pushing the game into perfection. Tweaking lines to suit an engine takes a lot of patience, hardwork and time. In fact we should encourage them to create more books.

If two engines uses same book so be it. If there lines are superior they may have an edge for the current tourney, but they may get better opposition the next time around - novelties here and there. If they played to a draw against each other let them do it, because what they believe those are the best line of play. If indeed it is best then we have just found an important drawing line.

[garybelton]

The only trouble is, having the same book author for different engines opens the tournament up to abuse, so why not remove any possibility of that?

[adams161]

Say i have a book by a fellow name Padre. I'm all excited about my program and i like my book and decide to enter CCT. Unfortunately it turns out another guy uses a book by the same fellow, Padre. Aparently Padre has made at least two books in his lifetime.

Would i be prohibited from entering any tournies that use this rule if its found out my book author wrote a book for a program other than me that has entered? ( assuming i wont play without my book).

Who gets to use a book by Padre? The first guy to enter with a book by Padre, is he allowed to use it but no further entries? Would it be appropriate to suggest we flip a coin to see who gets to keep their book giving both or perhaps several engines a chance to compete for the rights to hold onto their custom book by Padre?

Mike

[Harvey Williamson]

Say i have a book by a fellow name Padre. I'm all excited about my program and i like my book and decide to enter CCT. Unfortunately it turns out another guy uses a book by the same fellow, Padre. Aparently Padre has made at least two books in his lifetime.

Would i be prohibited from entering any tournies that use this rule if its found out my book author wrote a book for a program other than me that has entered? ( assuming i wont play without my book).

Who gets to use a book by Padre? The first guy to enter with a book by Padre, is he allowed to use it but no further entries? Would it be appropriate to suggest we flip a coin to see who gets to keep their book giving both or perhaps several engines a chance to compete for the rights to hold onto their custom book by Padre?

Mike

Padre should decide.

[Dann Corbit]

Hello everyone,

Before, during, and after CCT12, there were many rules "tweaks" that were suggested, and I think they are a terrific idea.

In reference to rule:

Code: Select all

2. Only the original author, Operator or a team member of the original program may enter and operate. The definition of a team member is as follows:

An individual who has internal knowledge of the program and is recognized by the author as a member of the development team.. i.e. Developer, book maker. This person must have advanced knowledge of the program, such as how the program is designed, hashing schemes, book making procedures..

2a. Operators will only be allowed under the following conditions:

2a1. The author must be online during the tournament to participate in discussions in channel 64, and in the event there is an issue with their program they can provide real time support to their operator.

2a2. The operator must use the account that the author has signed up. No exceptions will be made.

2a3. No operator can operate more than one program. No exceptions will be made.

Over the course of the event, we had several authors online, but their operators were AFK. Unusual, but true.

I propose that Author's pick an "operator" or two NOW, train them on engine parameters and which interface/books you would prefer to use. This way, if an event comes up where you need hardware, you have someone readily available, and can perform. They essentially would become "Team Members", thus nullifying the need for an "operator".

You have a full year now to get one or two people ready for the next CCT event, and you have the ACCA events coming up. So I would HIGHLY recommend this practice.

In reference to rule:

Code: Select all

2. No manually operated programs, and all programs must kibitz their evaluation, and book moves/TB hits if possible. Providing as much information as possible for the viewers and participants is key. It should also be noted that 1-3 lines of text is sufficient. No need to scroll out an entire page.

Whispering is NOT what the rule states. It states kibitzing it mandatory. We had several participants who whispered instead of kibitzing, or kibitzed nothing.

Next year, it will be very simple to avoid any complaints. If you are not kibitzing at the beginning of your game, you will forfeit. If you decide that you do not want to abide by this rule, do not enter. It will be strictly enforced.

As to the book makers:

Two teams will not be able to use a book created from the same book maker.

i.e. Ted Langreck makes Crafty's books. He would be prevented from making a book for another participant. Just as a participant would be prevented from using a book created by him.

If we only allow one engine per author, then we only allow one book per book maker. That is fair right?

This sounds utterly absurd to me.

Ok one to this one:

Code: Select all

5. In the event of a disconnection, the party will be given 5 minutes to return to complete the game and no more than 2 disconnections  per game will be allowed. On the third time, the game will be a forfeit.

This one is being changed to 10 minutes, instead of 5. Nothing too significant, but should correct some issues.

More are coming, as I decide how to word them.

Peter