Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Steve?)

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Steve B

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by Steve B »

JonP01 wrote:No :) But when one is kissing a potential new dedicated computer goodbye, well you must know that the survival instinct kicks in ;)

So, anyone know Craig Barnes's email address? :wink:


Not holding out hopes for an improved Maestro II Regards


Jonathan
well because you doubted me for even a second ..i regret to inform you that in the future ..if there are any other potential chess computers you are thinking of acquiring and you want me to test something for you..

there will from now on be a $25 Aggravation Charge per position per computer
Paypal Accepted Regards
Steve
JonP01

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by JonP01 »

Fair enough. Lucky I did not withdraw the Paypal HIARCS versus TASC cheerleader funds that you paid me last week. I do so hate those Paypal admin charges.

Penny pinching Regards

Jonathan
JonP01

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by JonP01 »

Hi Steve,


Just experimenting with a Saitek Maestro now. There does not infact appear to be any difference whatsoever between the Selective and Brute Force search - in each case the exact same search depth and variation is reached for a given time limit. No difference in the range of possible replies generated either. I would bet changing the option does absolutely nothing whatsoever to the actual playing strength or characteristics of the program.

Additionally, the option to disable the openings book does not work either - so that is two menu options that are there but do nothing at all.

And the machine is incapable of mating King and Queen versus King, let alone King and Rook versus King.


Another rushed out the door job Regards


Jonathan
JonP01

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by JonP01 »

Make that it can't mate with King Queen and minor piece nor King and two rooks. And any more material than that and it stalemates.

Another one for the local charity bin Regards

Jonathan
Steve B

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by Steve B »

JonP01 wrote:Make that it can't mate with King Queen and minor piece nor King and two rooks. And any more material than that and it stalemates.

Another one for the local charity bin Regards

Jonathan
hi Jon
well i dont own a Maestro ...
but i am getting the distinct impression that you never met a schachcomputer that you didnt Dislike
:wink:

We Come To Praise Schachcomputers Not To Bury Them
Caesar Sends His Regards
Steve
JonP01

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by JonP01 »

Hi Steve,

Well I guess you have a point. Anyone who did not know me better could well think that no computer impresses me. But as I am sure you know, I could give a very long list indeed of machines that really impress me, even though many of them would have quite lowly ratings. Novag's Star Beryl, for instance, really is a Star and continues to astound me. How on earth it can do what it does with only 4K and a huge openings book is beyond my comprehension. It also has the least number of bugs of any dedicated program I have come across for years.

Maestro does have some very nice points. It is seemingly very well made and has an excellent display for a dedicated computer. The backlit LCD touch display is a breath of fresh air for a dedicated machine, especially since there aren't too many Novag Savant variants running around in operational condition these days. On account of that, I'll forgive the tremendous rate at which the H8 processor and backlight chew through batteries. It has a reasonable ability to see tactics and has a broad and varied openings library and plays an interesting game.

Infact, here is game it just won (30 secs per move) against HIARCS in sparring mode (but let's face it, handicapped PC engines don't play at a consistent level).

Hopefuly this is a machine which despite failing basic theoretical tests can ocassionally string a nice game together. I'll forgive the stalemate bug. If it stalemates a mate in 1, I will award it the full point, since I believe it is the effect of the selective search foward pruning. Which is why a working brute force function would have been good to try :wink:

[Event "Sparring"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.05.08"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Saitek Maestro"]
[Black "Hiarcs 10"]
[Result "1-0"]
[PlyCount "95"]

1. d4 d5 2. g3 Bf5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bg2 e6 5. Bf4 Bd6 6. Ne5 Be4 7. Bxe4 Nxe4 8.
e3 Nxf2 9. Kxf2 g5 10. Qh5 Qf6 11. Qxg5 Qxg5 12. Bxg5 f6 13. Bxf6 Rf8 14. Ke2
Rxf6 15. Nd3 Nc6 16. Nd2 e5 17. dxe5 Nxe5 18. Raf1 Rxf1 19. Rxf1 Nxd3 20. cxd3
Kd7 21. Rf7+ Ke6 22. Rxh7 Rg8 23. e4 dxe4 24. Nxe4 Be5 25. Nc5+ Kd5 26. Rh5 Rh8
27. Rxh8 Bxh8 28. Nxb7 Bxb2 29. h4 Bd4 30. h5 Bg7 31. g4 Bh6 32. Nd8 c5 33. Nf7
Bg7 34. h6 Bf6 35. g5 Ke6 36. h7 Kxf7 37. gxf6 Kxf6 38. h8=Q+ Ke6 39. Qa8 c4
40. dxc4 Kd6 41. Qxa7 Kc6 42. a4 Kd6 43. a5 Kc6 44. Qb6+ Kd7 45. a6 Kc8 46.
Qb7+ Kd8 47. a7 Ke8 48. a8=Q# 1-0




Trying to balance the perspective Regards


Jonathan
Steve B

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by Steve B »

hi Jon

To Be Honest , i do not even know what "Sparring mode" means for a PC Engine.. but i am glad to see a dedicated computer win a game no matter how crippled the PC Engine is
:wink:

yes i would be interested to see a list of dedicated computers that do impress you
you do not have to give the reasons..only the list

At Your Earliest Convenience Regards
Steve
JonP01

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by JonP01 »

I can only give the names of machines that I have personally had experience with, so this list exclude a very large number of machines that I would no doubt be very impressed with (i.e TASC, high end Mephistos, etc).

Scisys Sensor Chess with the two 4K add-on modules (classical / hypermodern)
Scisys Mark V
Fidelity Sensory 9
Scisys Superstar
Scisys Turbostar
Scisys Astral
Novag Constellation
Novag Super Constellation
Mephisto MMIV
Fidelity Elegance
Fidelity Excellence
Saitek Simultano
Fidelity Excel 68000
Mephisto Europa
Mephisto Miami
Novag Amber
Saitek Sensor XL
Novag Star Beryl
Chessmaster Gameboy Colour
Chessmaster Gameboy Advance

That's just at the top of my head. I'll no doubt think of more tomorrow.

Machines that leave me luke-warm are anything in the Excalibur range and the Mephisto Mondial II. And machines that are best forgotten:

Novag Dynamic "S"
Chessmaster Diamond
Saitek Maestro
Steve B

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by Steve B »

JonP01 wrote:I can only give the names of machines that I have personally had experience with, so this list exclude a very large number of machines that I would no doubt be very impressed with (i.e TASC, high end Mephistos, etc).

Scisys Sensor Chess with the two 4K add-on modules (classical / hypermodern)
Scisys Mark V
Fidelity Sensory 9
Scisys Superstar
Scisys Turbostar
Scisys Astral
Novag Constellation
Novag Super Constellation
Mephisto MMIV
Fidelity Elegance
Fidelity Excellence
Saitek Simultano
Fidelity Excel 68000
Mephisto Europa
Mephisto Miami
Novag Amber
Saitek Sensor XL
Novag Star Beryl
Chessmaster Gameboy Colour
Chessmaster Gameboy Advance

That's just at the top of my head. I'll no doubt think of more tomorrow.

Machines that leave me luke-warm are anything in the Excalibur range and the Mephisto Mondial II. And machines that are best forgotten:

Novag Dynamic "S"
Chessmaster Diamond
Saitek Maestro
ok Jon
thanks for your thoughts
an impressive list
and true to form ..only one holz schachcomputer(not counting the MMIV which can of course be force fed to a holz computer)
:wink:


BTW..there were five modules released for the Scisys Sensor chess

Short List Regards
Steve
JonP01

Re: Collector's Corner : Cosmic / Maestro Stalemate Bug (Ste

Post by JonP01 »

Hi Steve,

Yes, unfortunately only the two 4K modules were available at the time Cameron bought the Sensor Chess. I still remember how impressed we were when the style of the machine would change so radically when the modules were exchanged. I have very happy memories of that computer - it was the first one in the house that played decent (solid) chess. I also well remember how hot it used to get. There must have been this huge heatsink near the keypad somewhere. It was extremely well built too. Of all the non-holz machines I have known, the Sensor Chess was the best built. It weighed a ton for what it was, LED on every square (and under a clear plastic membrane) - sheer luxury.

The Sensory 9 was the first machine I played against that was stronger than me, so that will always impress me whichever way you cut it :wink: The Mark V of course was just brilliant. The Elegance though was perhaps the most impressive all things considered - an incredibly balanced game, especially at a time when most machine's endgames were relatively poor, the Fidelity Elegance had an endgame to match everything else. Plus a very broad and varied openings library that was not typical of other Fidelity machines of the time (they might have had the lines but they did not actually willingly play the same variety that Elegance did).

And in recent times, it is Novag Star Beryl that has impressed me the most. Surely the best all-round 4K program ever written. Infact I am no less impressed with Star Beryl than I am the greats of the past. Sadly the Star Beryl has a couple of ergonomic issues that would make it a pain to use for non-enthusiasts (like the absolutely rediculous alignment of the LCD display, making reading off some moves almost guesswork). But I guess as you would say, that is what makes it's character.

There are surely many machines I have never personally tried and which would probably impress me. I hope one day to take a Mephisto II or III for a test drive, for example.

As for Saitek Maestro, I think I will play some games with it against Star Beryl. I played a 45 second a moves game with them both yesterday. Maestro won a pawn, then lost it, then won it back again in the endgame. And luckily for Maestro, there was just the right amount of material left on the board to mate the Beryl at the end ;) Should make for an interesting match. Kittenger's brilliance versus the far gruntier hardware of the Maestro and a 4-fold increase in memory footprint. It's the classic confrontation of a high-revving tiny capacity 4 cylinder versus the big loping V8.

I'm a bit short of machines in the genuine 1400 - 1600 ELO range, so I might have to consider giving Maestro a guest spot. Especially as the Saitek Trainer I bought on eBay seems to have disappeared off the postal rader at this stage :(