BOARD size, other rooks & pawn / CITRINE info: SSDF 1900

[Karmazen & Oliver]

hi Jon

there is something wrong with the Ratings On Niggemann
the Citrine is basically a Star Ruby with an improved book
look at Niggemanns rating for the SR...165O elo:
https://www.niggemann.com/e/detail/computer/322.html

of course too low
but assume it is correct..then Citrine is 250 better??

Inconsistent Regards
Steve

You are correct... not is logic evaluata a Star ruby in 1650 and CITRINE 1900. maybe Nieman want seld Mephisto modules and board that NOVAG... because in NOVAG not "win" enough money

I think too that CITRINE 1900 not is correct... Not is posible that Obsidian have a 1930 in test Bt2540... and Star Ruby have 1975 ...

Citrine Ups 2000 ELO maybe 2000 ... in the worst case, and 2025 in the best case...

I see that CITRINE see looks very better in test BT2450, that obsidian or SR... and this is very important in a fast game... or 1 min for move...
______

I think that Nieman not like evaluate ups NOVAG... not is posible that SENATOR have "only" USCF 2180 and SSDF 2082 and Citrine USCF 2330 and SSDF 1900...
_______

this diferents are a lot of ...

Other question:

you can USED piezes of Exclusive in CITRINES... rooks and pawns are more big...





http://www.meca-web.es/articulo_8.htm ( more info about "the size if it cares")

bye steve and company

[Steve B]

Yes, crazy obviously. Although in the latest Chess magazine I noted an ad for Carnelian II claiming a rating of 2000 ELO. Considering that Carnelian II ocassionally wholesale blunders pieces away for no reason, can't even defeat Excalibur King Arthur when it doesn't blunder and can only draw with Star Ruby if given 3 minutes per move to 2 seconds per move for Star Ruby...

The only computer ratings I really trust these days are ones where I can go back to my own source data (i.e huge games database of 40 in 2 games) and calculate ratings based on that.

Pick a number Regards

Jonathan

well i trust SS without question
Hallsworth has been testing and tabulating results for 22 years
the man KNOWS how to rate a chess computer by now

every now and again he lists the number of games each computer has played for its rating

i never added all of the games up but they would number well into to the hundreds of thousands easily

Seriously Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

hi Oliver
issue 129 of SS has a SEVEN page article on the Citrine
complete with games and a very good analysis
Hallsworth mentions in the article an ultimate rating of 2057 but officially lists it as 2049 so far

you receive Selective Search?

if not i cannot make a copy of the article because of copyright issues but i can order a copy and send it to you

i am interested in your opinion of the article

contact me privately for your address

Steve and Co.Regards

[mclane]

a few minutes ago i have spoken with Christoph Kamp from Chess Niggemann.

He said that the Citrine is completely outsold at chess Niggemann. and that they will have a look again on the ELO rating. he said they have many orders for this machine, so NOVAG will have to produce some more
to make the customers happy.

i also talked with him about suspicious here in this forum that
niggemann likes more to sell other computers than NOVAG computers,
and he said this is nonsense. they like to sell ANY chess dedicated chess computer and that the problem is to GET enough units for the customers.
there is much request for new dedicated chess computers , but less to offer.

wish you all a nice day,
Thorsten

[Steve B]

a few minutes ago i have spoken with Christoph Kamp from Chess Niggemann.

He said that the Citrine is completely outsold at chess Niggemann. and that they will have a look again on the ELO rating. he said they have many orders for this machine, so NOVAG will have to produce some more
to make the customers happy.

i also talked with him about suspicious here in this forum that
niggemann likes more to sell other computers than NOVAG computers,
and he said this is nonsense. they like to sell ANY chess dedicated chess computer and that the problem is to GET enough units for the customers.
there is much request for new dedicated chess computers , but less to offer.

wish you all a nice day,
Thorsten

thanks for the info
i hear from all retailer's ...UK..USA ... that the Citrine is a HUGH seller
i wonder if the CCC is perhaps entitled to a commission on any future sales??


actually it makes sense

$350 for a beautiful wooden chess computer with wooden pieces and can play strong chess against most humans

the only wooden computer that can be bought new today is almost TWICE this price..it will play stronger but the Citrine is already strong enough for most players

BTW..i never accussed Niggemman of preferring to sell other computers then Novag
my only comment is that the ratings are incorrect in some instances

Steve

[mclane]

of course not you. somebody else here made such a comment.

[Robert Weck]

Hi Steve and Thorsten,

i hear from all retailer's ...UK..USA ... that the Citrine is a HUGH seller

Good to hear that! That gives me hope, that good dedicated chess computers still have a future!


Robert

[Steve B]

Hi Steve and Thorsten,

i hear from all retailer's ...UK..USA ... that the Citrine is a HUGH seller

Good to hear that! That gives me hope, that good dedicated chess computers still have a future!


Robert

so what do you think Robert?
now thanks to the folks at ARENA the Citrine can be used to play different PC Engines

does this make it more likely that you will now buy one for yourself??

for me it actually makes it LESS desirable and i am now thinking of selling this hybrid abomination!

Regards
Steve

[Karmazen & Oliver]

Hola, meca ... ya se que este es un foro en español... pero es que ESAS palabras de Steve de "MOUSTRO hibrido" pronunciadas en contra de la CITRINE, solo por el simple hecho de permitir comunicarse con los ordenadores... me a llegado al alma...

en fin... Y MAS cuando navegando por la web de phoenix,... te encuentras ese Feedback.. o como se llame...

En fin... A mas de uno le ha CAIDO como un jarro de agua fria.. el tema ese.. por que si CITRINE es un MOUSTRO hibrido... que sera la futura Revelation ???.. un moustro que permite HACER las mismas cosas que CITRINE pero BAstante mas potente independientemente Y/O... 10 VECES mas caro ¡¡¡

En resumen, muy majo muy majo... pero MUY poco imparcial.

saludos.
____________

Hi Steve and Thorsten,

i hear from all retailer's ...UK..USA ... that the Citrine is a HUGH seller

Good to hear that! That gives me hope, that good dedicated chess computers still have a future!
Robert

Yes ¡¡ the only way to computer chess future it consists in support conection TO "computer PC" board... and permit users SAVE the games play verus machine...

obviously, CITRINES is ALWAYS a computer DEDICATE chess. becasuse "she" have a CPU and a board ... with only objective, is to allow to play to those fond of independent way ... ( not need always conection to pc computer)

THIS is the best OPTIONS of the "cheap" CITRINE... I hope that NOVAG not "desactive" this option on News board, because this serious very harmful for the sales and in definitive for the health of a company like novag

so what do you think Robert?

for me it actually makes it LESS desirable and i am now thinking of selling this hybrid abomination ! Regards
Steve

I don´t thinki that you are thinking of selling "THAT" fantastic Abomination ¡¡... I cannot believe it, unless you don't like the version of the program that has for that "he/she" has some "small" bugs...

I think that perhaps in alone many years this model (citrine) exists and in her first SERIES able to make something that others computer chess were not able to.

Also... the best of computer dedicate chess ( phoenix ???, resurrection and REVELATION HAVE this OPTION ¡¡¡), , they have ALWAYS allowed to save the games and to communicate with the computers, another thing is that we don't use it

the future is the present and the present the users they choose it

http://www.chesscomputer.eu/products.htm

Resurrection Module Set (Version I)
Revelation

At this time Revelation Features :

Menu driven chess system
Graphical LCD display containing 128*64 dots (active pled technology)
All kinds of engine information regarding moves, depth of thinking, variants and systems messages.
Setup board
Take back of complete game
64 levels of gameplay, changeable by user
Analyse function
Save and Load Game
Sound indicates certain conditions during play
Reverse Board
Select Engine (onboard engines or remote pc engines by Bluetooth) Configure all available Engine options (Hash, Pondering, etc..)
Language (English and German)
Upload new engine or firmware by Bluetooth wireless device
Technical data
Xscale 500 Mhz, 16MB Ram and 8MB for hash. Pled active green display. Using the Bluetooth wireless serial link you can update the module.

BUT... after this We can read in this web:

http://www.chesscomputer.eu/feedback.htm

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8287 ... hatyz0.jpg


I like this computer too... I think fantastico too... but revelatioon is a MORE "big" (biggest) hybrid abomination that CITRINE, and 10 TIME more expensive ¡¡¡

OK ... BUT if CITRINE is a fantastic Abomination, Why this Other computer chess not ???

we are not impartial dear steve, isn´t it ???

bye bye. since SPain.

Oliver

[Steve B]

hi Oliver

i make a small joke


nothing escapes your attention i see

you should collect more chess computers Oscar!
you have the strength and stamina to become a World class Collector!
and now after your world famous Citrine videos you are also a Hollywood Movie Star!

Salud Regards
Steve